Author Topic: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette  (Read 1847 times)

Porkins

  • Formerly Nick H. And a long time ago etc, Eurostar

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2018, 05:03:51 pm »
Proof that if someone is brave enough to develop and market it there will be people stupid enough to buy it.

The bill when it all wears out on the other hand . . .
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2018, 05:09:31 pm »
So this is the incarnation of the long-announced hydraulic shifting. I hope it will be good. If you have hydraulic brakes, I expect it makes sense to have hydro shifting too. I'm skipping all that though and waiting for the telepathic infinitely variable shifting and braking.
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2018, 05:19:09 pm »
Telepathic infinitely variable almost exists.

The above may contain traces of LIE
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

Porkins

  • Formerly Nick H. And a long time ago etc, Eurostar
Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2018, 05:33:30 pm »
I wouldn't trust Rotor to supply spares for its proprietary designs. I've got their RSX4 crank set but they discontinued it and don't supply chain rings any more. Not very impressive for a product which was touted as a world-beater in 2007.

https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/category/components/chainsets/product/review-rotor-bike-rsx4-9482/

http://www.rotorbikeusa.com/RS4x_cranks.html

Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2018, 05:45:44 pm »
....Looks like we'll have umpteen rear hub standards fighting it out for a while.....

only if folk are daft enough to actually buy them....?    ;)

cheers

Porkins

  • Formerly Nick H. And a long time ago etc, Eurostar
Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2018, 06:15:01 pm »
It seems the mfrs want 1x to be the norm for mtb and road bikes. Maybe the trade would like the standardisation....maybe it would lead to more commonality of components. Torslanda, can you see any logic here? Or is it just the usual game of trying to get people to replace their bikes just to have something a bit different?

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2018, 07:13:16 pm »
Just another fkn headache! I don't think it's going to trickle down to the local schoolkids Carreras any time soon.

Seriously, there will always be a market for the latest whizzbang technology - just not in a grease monkey environment. Thankfully that means I don't have to spend the day farting around with hydraulics that don't work because they're worn out, fault diagnostics with Di2 and reprogramming etap. Think I'll stick to paying the rent with tube replacements.

You bend 'em, we mend 'em...
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #8 on: July 08, 2018, 09:42:36 pm »
It seems the mfrs want 1x to be the norm for mtb and road bikes.

3T tried to introduce 1x to the pro peloton with the Strada but they didn’t like it. So now 3T have just announced a 2x version of the Strada.

The press release is a hilarious exercise in not admitting they got it wrong.

The pros will put up with most of the shit the manufacturers foist on them but clearly a line has been crossed here.

Quote
"When people talk to us about the STRADA, it is usually the 1x drivetrain that gets the most attention,” Rene Wiertz, CEO of 3T, elaborates. "It’s very visible and a bit controversial, so that makes sense. But as we’ve said from the start, the most important feature of the STRADA is actually that it is the first aero road bike optimized for wider tires, up to 30mm (..)”.
 
"But when 3T launched the STRADA, we also said it was our concept bike for what an aero road bike would look like in 5 years,” adds Gerard Vroomen, Head of Design at 3T. "Why did we say 5 years and not today? Because we know that some technologies and people need a bit of time.  So 1x already works great for certain people and certain group-sets (..) In other situations, 2x is still preferred (especially with electronic group-sets) -..(..)"
 
Enter the STRADA DUE, with the same aero and comfort benefits as the original STRADA but designed for electronic 2x drivetrains.
Now riders can enjoy that unique mix of a very stiff, aero frame and the plush ride of up to 30mm tires in combination with the 2x drivetrain of choice.

Kim

  • 2nd in the world
Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2018, 10:47:09 pm »
Telepathic infinitely variable almost exists.

The above may contain traces of LIE

That's the non-telepathic version.  You want http://www.fallbrooktech.com/cycling/harmony  :)
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2018, 09:21:19 am »
It seems the mfrs want 1x to be the norm for mtb and road bikes.

3T tried to introduce 1x to the pro peloton with the Strada but they didn’t like it. So now 3T have just announced a 2x version of the Strada.

The press release is a hilarious exercise in not admitting they got it wrong.

The pros will put up with most of the shit the manufacturers foist on them but clearly a line has been crossed here.

When 3T introduced the Strada, it was basically as the bike of the future. The guy behind it Gerald  <can't spell surname> basically said it would be great when there were 13 sprockets. Why they put it into the pro peleton when they don't have the groupsets yet is insane - maybe Sram promised them 12 speed and they thought that would be enough.

Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2018, 09:33:53 am »
I think they wanted to test the principle; the riders on the teams understood this and said they 'felt like lab rats'.

The apparent reasons for the experiment's 'failure' were things like the chain unshipping at inconvenient moments. However there are other problems too; lack of service wheels in races and a fundamental lack of efficiency being amongst them.

 I don't think that any pro team would put up with  reducing their competitiveness unless they were greatly incentivised (i.e. paid)  to do it.  Free bikes or ones that you are being paid to ride are still no good if they actively hamper your efforts to win races....

cheers
 

Mr Larrington

  • A bit ov a lyv wyr by slof standirds
  • Custard Wallah
    • Mr Larrington's Automatic Diary
Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2018, 11:52:14 am »
It's all getting a bit Nigel Tufnel
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2018, 01:16:44 pm »
I’m not buying until someone comes up with a combined electronic and hydraulic gear system.

Porkins

  • Formerly Nick H. And a long time ago etc, Eurostar
Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2018, 02:02:22 pm »
Rotor would normally be too much of a minnow to force a new rear hub standard on the likes of SRAM, Shimano and Campag. But there has been talk that 13 speed is the way to go if 1x is to succeed on road bikes. I think 3T said that, and maybe the other manufacturers are privately saying the same thing. Maybe Rotor see a chance to nudge Dura Ace and SRAM Red to bypass 12 speed and go straight to 13 with the Rotor design.

Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2018, 03:09:25 pm »
That seems unlikely, as Shimano have just introduced a new 12-speed "standard". Not impossible though. What spline pattern does Rotor's cassette use?
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Porkins

  • Formerly Nick H. And a long time ago etc, Eurostar
Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2018, 03:30:16 pm »
Looks like Shimano HG. Rotor says Uno cassettes are "compatible with other 11s groupsets, and those freehub bodies using Shimano/SRAM pattern".

Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2018, 03:56:19 pm »
In which case they might well have jumped on to a standard just as Shimano begin to abandon it.
The earth is vast and beautiful and contains many miraculous places. (Chekhov)

Porkins

  • Formerly Nick H. And a long time ago etc, Eurostar
Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2018, 08:08:51 pm »
In my head I'm building a tourer with 1x13 10-46. Ratios between 20 and 100 inches. I'm thinking a 3T Strada frame. The fork comes with a v tall steerer - room for lots of spacers and a touring-friendly bar height. I'd make some mudguards and bags. The world's fastest tourer!


LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2018, 08:18:22 pm »
A 10t top cog only fits a Shimano spline if it is combined with a larger cog and cantilevered off a shortened freehub ala Capreo.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2018, 08:20:03 pm »
That's why Shimano are going to a new "standard".  ::-)

Porkins

  • Formerly Nick H. And a long time ago etc, Eurostar
Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2018, 08:43:43 pm »
Will Micro Spline appear in road groupsets soon d'you think? I'm wondering whether the Rotor 1x13 announcement is a bit of a stalking horse...they're not saying anything about prices, weights or availability...maybe they're just showing prototypes-cum-mockups...maybe the production stuff won't appear until Shimano has committed to the freehub design for 12 or 13 speeds.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2018, 08:53:41 pm »
I expect so, when Shimano decide to use cartridge bearings in their hubs (or when the copycats do so). Through axles squeeze the bearing size on standard Shimano spline freehubs.

For this system, I guess that a standard length HG spline freehub is used with a slightly longer axle on the driveside, to cantilever the 10t cog. Moulton has done the same sort of thing for decades, often with a custom shorter Hope freehub.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2018, 09:35:56 pm »

My first reaction on seeing this was "how the hell are you going to fix that at the side of the road when it breaks?"

But the more I think about it, the more I think that it's going to be a right sod. The gap between the gears is going to make getting a comfy cadence hard. And if you want to have enough range to get up the hill, you're going to find you top out way to early.

I wish the groupset manufactures would think a bit more about the average women on a bike, and a lot less about Cavendish and friends. Please can we have more subcompact chainsets!

J
--
Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Torslanda

  • Professional Gobshite
  • Just a tart for retro kit . . .
    • John's Bikes
Re: New from Rotor, a hydraulic 13 speed group and a 10-46 cassette
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2018, 08:58:17 am »
Telepathic infinitely variable almost exists.

The above may contain traces of LIE

That's the non-telepathic version.  You want http://www.fallbrooktech.com/cycling/harmony  :)

WANT!  :P
VELOMANCER

Well that's the more blunt way of putting it but as usual he's dead right.