Rowing machines

[simonp]

I've started rowing at the gym again - mainly 2000m efforts.

I set a pb of IIRC 7:29.2 in October, took it easy on Friday as it was my first time since then, and did 7:48.0.

Today was a 7:36.0 as I upped the pace a bit.  Should be able to set a new PB soon I think.  Average power was 236 watts which for me is quite a lot.  My arms feel like they've had a workout.

I am logging my rows on the Concept 2 website, like bikejournal.  This could get addictive.

[Marco Stefano]

Having done a 40 minute session this evening, I concur that it can be addictive. It can also turn into the last thing I want to do, even if I only have to go into the front room...

If you can do 7:30-ish with no specific training, sub-7 should be possible. Your arms shouldn't ache though, your legs should - it's a pushing sport, like cycling. The C2 forum is usually quite good too. Have fun...

[DrBru]

Worth learning to "erg" properly -- it will take a lot off your time; and reduce the risk of injuries. Your local rowing club is the best place to learn -- most gym people don't really know the right techniques. Then again, most people in the gym probably stuggle to beat 8 minutes for 2k. An average male club rower will be in the 6:30-7:00 range for 2k.
You may of course already know this, in which case, apologies

Looking at your profile, you are in probably the best catered town in the country for rowing clubs! Cantabs, City of Cambridge and RobRoy are three of the biggest - but there are several others.

[HTFB]

Something is wrong if your arms are hurting. Where is the slider? On a well-maintained machine you probably want it no higher than the 7 mark: non-rowers tend to stick it to 10. If you have it too high then it is much harder to pick the work up with the legs and you risk back injury.

Rowing technique 101 concerns the recovery (from the finish of the drive phase, back to the catch with your hands up by the fan). The sequence should be:
Hands --- the arms go straight away from the body;
Body --- rock over from the hips, keeping the chin up and lower back pressed in;
Slide ---now let the knees bend as you roll your bum forwards.

If you get this wrong you will find that you are lifting your hands to avoid bumping them into your knees, and you are likely either not to be using your legs effectively or to be putting heavy loads on your back. On the erg you can aim to have the handle moving in a straight line from the finish back to the catch---if it goes straight in and out at one height you are probably keeping your back in a reasonably strong position.

Technique 102 is the drive phase, and if you're used to the gym then you can just think of it as a power-clean.

[Marco Stefano]

Looking at your profile, you are in probably the best catered town in the country for rowing clubs! Cantabs, City of Cambridge and RobRoy are three of the biggest - but there are several others.

And the worst catered-for rowing town for rowing water. Apart from when racing, like last Sunday. And at night; used to have night training outings with City, that was... interesting.

If you like rowing inside, give boats a go. I recommend City.

Marco
Isle of Ely RC (ex. Norwich RC, Simoco RC, Free Press BC, City of Cambridge RC)

[Wascally Weasel]

This has some guide to the stroke in it:

Idiots Guide to Rowing

[mike]

Cantabs, City of Cambridge and RobRoy are three of the biggest - but there are several others.

Ahem.  And Cambridge 99, the best club on the river!!

mike
(ex. vice captain... )

[MSeries]

How well does rowing on a machine carry across to cycling ? Does this do any good ? Any other programs for Rowing for Cycling ?

[HTFB]

For competition level training in cycling I don't know, but I imagine Rebecca Romero does.

[Von Broad]

How well does rowing on a machine carry across to cycling ?

Very easily 

[Marco Stefano]

Quite a good crossover in my opinion, particularly aerobic fitness. Max heart rate likely to be higher on a rowing machine.



(Sorry, had to go and baste the spuds & parsnips  )



Some similar muscles used in lower half; rowing at race pace is sometimes described as like lifting 25kg sacks from the floor to chest level every 2-odd seconds. Yep, that's about what it feels like. Core stability improved by rowing too; trunk & back muscles connect leg drive to hands. Will build up upper body a bit, good for hillclimbing, possibly?

[simonp]

Quite a good crossover in my opinion, particularly aerobic fitness. Max heart rate likely to be higher on a rowing machine.

Can vouch for that... can't get above 185 on the bike, but have seen 195 on rower.

[Jezza]

I'm just beginning with this, so am on the novice level. I got some pointers from the Concept II site, and have set the slider to position 4. I wasn't spending long enough warming up, for a start, and then I tended to keep the same pace throughout, around 30 spm for 10 minutes. What I now do is 5 minutes warm up at around 26 strokes per minute, then hammer it for a couple of minutes - hitting 33 or 34 spm, then back down to an easy pace. I do three of these 2 minute bursts (definitely gets your heart going), with a couple of minutes of easy rowing to recover between each one. Then 5 minutes warm down again at around 26 or 27 spm.

So yesterday I did 3.5km, which took 17.5 minutes.     

[rafletcher]

One exercise I was recommended was similar to jezzas, only more so.  After warming up (and there are lots of discussions as to how effective / necessary this is....) I did intervals, but mine were 30 seconds as hard as you can, 30 seconds rest.  BLOODY hard work, and I was never fit enough to do  more than 5-6 minutes worth at my best (which wasn't too good I admit).

[mike]

too fast jezza... 

Warmup and the 'gentler' bits should be around 20 strokes / minute.  It's difficult to do, and needs the technique to be right but it can be done.  When you transfer that technique to the higher rating (SPM) parts, you will be going much quicker [and working harder ]

Most of my longer sessions (up to 60 minutes) were below 20spm.  I *could* do the same split / 500m at 26, but at 18 or 19 I'm embedding a better technique for the fast bits and getting more time off between strokes - which is a Good Thing.

[DrBru]

I'm just beginning with this, so am on the novice level. I got some pointers from the Concept II site, and have set the slider to position 4.

That is about the right setting for most C-II's, but it does wary a bit machine to machine (some have got more fluff in than others!). You can measure the actual drag by pressing (and this may need to be corrected; while since I've done it!) "On" and "Rest" (picture of a bed) simultaneously for 2--3 seconds. Screen resets, then take 4--5 strokes as hard as you can. You'll get a number like "130" on the screen, which is a measure of the drag. You to adjust the level to get 120-130 drag.

Agree completely with mike about the stroke rate. 20 is a good goal. You also want to be aiming for roughly a 2:1 ratio between the drive and the recovery. 5:3 is sometimes more practical (count one when you start at the front of the stroke, two on the drive, three as you finish (at the back), then 4,5,6,7 and 8 as you come back up the slide on the recovery).

[simonp]

So when I am doing level 8 at 28spm for 2000m is that really wasteful?

[Jezza]

too fast jezza... 

Warmup and the 'gentler' bits should be around 20 strokes / minute.  It's difficult to do, and needs the technique to be right but it can be done.  When you transfer that technique to the higher rating (SPM) parts, you will be going much quicker [and working harder ]

Most of my longer sessions (up to 60 minutes) were below 20spm.  I *could* do the same split / 500m at 26, but at 18 or 19 I'm embedding a better technique for the fast bits and getting more time off between strokes - which is a Good Thing.

20 seems incredibly slow at the moment, but I can see that getting the technique right makes all the difference. I'll slow it down some.

I've downloaded the Concept II manual and can already see a couple of faults I've got - bent wrists on the finish and knees up too early. I'm pretty comfortable at 26-28spm, but certainly couldn't do 60 minutes of it.

It's definitely addictive though - looking forward to my session tomorrow already 

[mike]

So when I am doing level 8 at 28spm for 2000m is that really wasteful?

no, no, no... you carry on...

[mike]

That is about the right setting for most C-II's, but it does wary a bit machine to machine (some have got more fluff in than others!). You can measure the actual drag by pressing (and this may need to be corrected; while since I've done it!) "On" and "Rest" (picture of a bed) simultaneously for 2--3 seconds. Screen resets, then take 4--5 strokes as hard as you can. You'll get a number like "130" on the screen, which is a measure of the drag. You to adjust the level to get 120-130 drag.

that's right, I think, apart from the 'as hard as you can' bit - you'll get the drag rating no matter how hard you go.  If you keep going when the drag starts showing, you can nudge the fan lever up and down with the right hand end of the handle until the drag is about right, then stop, reset the clock and begin the fun.

[simonp]

So when I am doing level 8 at 28spm for 2000m is that really wasteful?

no, no, no... you carry on...

Well it is supposed to be "lung capacity" work.  All my recent times are with level 8 and going flat out.

 

[mike]

sounds about right then.  If it's supposed to be flat out, then you could try dropping it to level 5 or 6 and going along at 32-34. 


(hides behind the sofa, giggling)

[simonp]

 

[HTFB]

 

I get that too. Every time I've completed a 2k piece anywhere near race-pace.

"My 2k time? Six thirty-seven and a barf".

[numbnuts]

I use to do the rowing and got a T-shirt for rowing one million metres, and we did a challenge of half a marathon 21000 metres and I did it in 1:45:20