LEL - which gears to use

[LEL]

I have had a few queries re  which gear ratios are best for LEL

As there are others with greater experience, I thought I would start a topic dedicated to this issue.

Any views out there?

[Greenbank]

For me:

71" (46x17 on 700c x 25mm tyres) between Cheshunt and Thorne (or Coxwold)
67" (46x18) for the Northern section was fine. I didn't have to walk anything.

That's not really the answer you were looking for was it?

Seriously though, I wouldn't say that a triple is absolutely necessary. There are a few short sharp climbs but the majority of climbs (including the long ones) are 5% or under. If I were planning on using a geared bike I'd be happy with a Compact Double or a standard double with a relatively wide rear cassette.

[Really Ancien]

For one reason and another I used an MTB chainset in 2001 and 2005, 22/32/42 with a cassete of 11 to 19 in 2001 and 12 to 21 in 2005 when I also changed the big ring to 44. I hardly used the 22 at all in 2005, but in 2001 it was very handy for the long headwind drags on the return journey from Dalkeith to Alston. The main complaints seems to be knee and achilles problems which kick in at about 1,000 km. I found it useful to have a choice of low ratios so that I could treat the long drags like a flat time trial, spinning at a constant 85 rpm or so to avoid loading up the Achilles and Knees. So I'd go for a triple with a close ratio cassette, based on the 2001 experience.

Damon.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

50-38 and 13-28 was plenty for me last time. YMMV

[vorsprung]

I did it in 2005

At this point I'd been doing audaxes for a couple of years and commuting for a while longer.  This is relevant.  I was not some kind of übermensch
I am 6'2" and weigh over 80Kg.  Slight headwinds do not bother me.  Slopes do slow me down.

I was using a triple 30-42-52 with a 8 speed 13-26 cassette.  Lowest gear is approx 30 inches

On day one there are some short steep climbs somewhere in the south east.  As my legs were fresh and I live in Devon¹ I don't think I touched the little chainring at all.  That day I was caught by a big group moving at speed ( 35 kph ) and I tagged along with them and the big ring was used.

End of day one I was at the hall north of York.  My average speed while moving was > 25kph

Day two I left the control feeling fairly awful due to a lack of sleep.  Some use of the little ring was made that morning.  It starts to get lumpier around there too.  I had a kip at the next control and felt much better.   I was on the middle chain ring up to Langdon Beck and Alston
I foolishly took the scenic route to Cannonbie², more granny ring

I got to Cannonbie at 10pm-ish but decided to stop there for the night.  Next day felt pretty good but even so, used quite low gears (30x19 maybe) climbing long slopes on the mountains in the south of Scotland.  Kept up a reasonable speed despite the headwind.  The retour was quicker.  Before sleeping I made it back to Alston.  I would be using the small chainring a little bit on this but mainly I was just blasting along.  I was riding strongly but I felt empty inside.  That day I traversed the southern scottish mountains twice and then went to highest town in England.  My achillies tendon didn't appreciate this.

Day 4 starts with a climb up some 25% cobbles.  I used the 24"³ gear for this.  Climbed back to Langdon Beck.  Talked to Peter Turnbul.  Don't remember what gears he had.
Did some 2 up time trialling on flat roads with a bloke called Phil.  Used big chainring for this.
Got to Thorne in a fairly poor state as regards ankle pain and sleep but in good spirits.
Followed a Dutch group across the flat stuff to Lincoln.  They had a big guy to tow them along.  Don't remember what gears, probably 42x17 Got to Lincoln at stupid o'clock.

Day 5 left Lincoln lost the Dutch guys on a climb.  Slight headwind.  Desperately tired.  Difficult to keep a speed above 20kph despite the unchallenging terrain.  Extensive use of the little chainring even on the flat.  Started to rain a bit.  No one likes rain but it helped keep me awake   Got lost, Dutch boys caught me up.  Finished just as it got dark in 108 hours.

In summary: Although you might not need the little chainring under normal circumstances, after several days of sleep deprivation and a lot of miles it is very useful

This time I am using a compact 13-29 with 50-34 chainrings.  Again the lowest gear is approx 30 inches.  I am a bit fitter but still not an übermensch


1) Devon has the most short sharp hills in the UK
2) There is option to take an A road which is flatter.  I did this on the way back
3) 24" gear is a uphemism for walking.  24" is 2 feet.  Geddit?

[Pip]

I needed the granny ring to climb out of Alston...

[HenkV]

Any hints about the steepness and duration?

I remember some VERY steep hills in England but will they generaly speeking be avoided in LEL? Are there 20%+ parts or does it stop at lets say 10% ?

[Greenbank]

I'd guess at nothing more than 10% (except the cobbles through Alston probably).

Even the few sections of 10% are less than 1km long.

I'll have a look at my tracklog of the route to see if anything jumps out but I didn't have to walk up anything and I rode the (Northbound) route on 67" fixed (and I'm not a particularly strong fixed rider).

[vistaed]

It's useful to know that Greenbank. Think I will be running 44x17 with a 18t free-wheel bail out on the other side.

[Helen]

It is possible to ride from Dalkeith to Middleton Tyas on silly time trial gears (52-42 and 11-22) as I proved this weekend.  I wouldn't recommend it though and I will be changing to a (50-34) on the front sometime soon. I'll see how I get on with that, but I might change the cassette too specially for LEL.  I'm not sure that I'd be able to push my current gears up the hill out of Alston after a few days on the bike.

[Really Ancien]

A 50-40-30 triple would be quite a good idea with an 11 to 22. The hills in Scotland are long and can be wearing in a headwind, having lots of fairly close gears means you can twiddle easily, knee problems from pushing too high a gear have been common  in the past, if there is a hole where the gear you want is, you might be tempted to roll the bigger of the two options.

Damon.

[Helen]

Yup, but the bike is my time trial/ race bike because I only have one bike so this is a compromise between LEL and other times. Plus, my brake-shifters only do 2 rings so changing to 3 would become rather expensive.... so a compact (I needed to change the crankset anyway because the cranks are 175 and I usually use 170mm) plus if necessary a change in cassette is the most practical way forward - a cassette is easy to change back again. 

If I had a winter bike/tourer I could do LEL on, I'd go for the triple chainset, definitely.... and probably a mountain bike cassette (just for good measure).

The hills in Scotland are not that bad (or at any rate not as bad as the alternative routes across the border and therefore not as bad as I expected) - it is the hill out of Alston I expect to be my nemesis!!!!

[mattc]

I find these comments are less useful when riders don't give context - I therefore nominate Vorsprung's post as Most Helpful by Far. (As he gave his finishing time, weight, and stuff about fatigue, pain etc).

Thanks Mr V

(Saying "I rarely needed my 42-23 bail-out gear" is misleading if the rider fails to mention that he/she finished 2 hours behind HowardW.)

p.s. on PBP I used all the gears my triple could give me, so I have no intention of throwing away a chainring for this event.

[Helen]

I find these comments are less useful when riders don't give context - I therefore nominate Vorsprung's post as Most Helpful by Far. (As he gave his finishing time, weight, and stuff about fatigue, pain etc).

Thanks Mr V

(Saying "I rarely needed my 42-23 bail-out gear" is misleading if the rider fails to mention that he/she finished 2 hours behind HowardW.)

p.s. on PBP I used all the gears my triple could give me, so I have no intention of throwing away a chainring for this event.

I'm not sure I'd agree.  Because at the end of the day there will always be riders who can do it faster, no matter what gears they and you are using.... so unless you actually know and have ridden with the people posting you don't know if you can really compare themselves to you or not.  Plus, you get old guys with big beer bellies who are deceptively strong and fast on the bike ... so weight in that case is not that useful.  Basically noone who has not ridden LEL before (me included) will know if they are running the correct gears until during/after LEL.  But I imagine if a girl can make it from Dalkeith to Middleton Tyas on a 52-42 and 11-22 then so can most blokes.  I will be changing the chainrings but only because I need to change my crankset anyway so I might as well get something a bit more suited. Otherwise I'd just stick a mountain bike cassette on the back.  As a mature student funding an expensive second degree the cost of changing components is an issue for me and there may be other newbies to LEL out there wondering if they can get away with their current road gears which is why I posted.  Well, yes, it is possible to climb the hills north of Scotch Corner on roadie gears if riding for one day... but as I'll need to get back on my bike again the day after and the day after that and the day after that.... well, I personally think I'd struggle as time went on.  But then there will be guys out there with rather greater endurance than me who wouldn't find it a problem.  The question isn't should someone remove a triple (of course they shouldn't), it is how many more gears might someone need than what they have already got.  Noone can actually answer that and actually the best thing to do is to go and ride the hills like I did last weekend and figure it out for yourself.  But that won't be possible for some people so then these posts become useful.  The more people who post with their opinion, the greater chance a newbie has of sifting through and thinking... ok, I need to change my gears... or, no, I reckon I'll be ok with what I've got.

[mattc]

But I imagine if a girl can make it from Dalkeith to Middleton Tyas on a 52-42 and 11-22 then so can most blokes. 

Ah, that's interesting. I hadn't realised girls were at a disadvantage on this ride.

Do they get extra time allowance? 

Edited due to cowardice.

[dehomag]

But I imagine if a girl can make it from Dalkeith to Middleton Tyas on a 52-42 and 11-22 then so can most blokes. 

The thing is Helen, before you ride from Dalkeith to Middleton you'll already have 700km in your legs and probably not much sleep. Every ride is different. Every rider is different. It is not good to make such comparisons.

The original question "what gears" is dumb anyway. No answer to that question is going to be very useful. More appropriately would be to understand the terrain and let the originator of the question decide what gears he needs for it. I know what I shall use, I know what I used in 2005 though I am far fitter now and four years older.

[Helen]

Mattc, haha!!! Women ARE disadvantaged in most sporting disciplines by lack of testosterone and the effect testosterone has on muscle and bone growth etc etc.  There is evidence though that the longer the event the less this disadvantage matters because our extra fat stores etc help us out with energy.... so no, no extra time for LEL.  Still, a guy who is the same weight as me with the same level of fitness will climb a hill faster and be able to push a bigger gear up it and there is nothing I can do about that.

Dehomag, you take my quote out of context. I say exactly what you have just said if you go on to read the rest of the post.

[Greenbank]

More appropriately would be to understand the terrain and let the originator of the question decide what gears he needs for it.

Full profile (with some minor glitches): http://www.greenbank.org/misc/lel_profile_full.jpg

The section from Langholm (just after the glitch) until it cut out on the A7 coming in towards Edinburgh. Assume Dakeith is at 20m or so ASL and that there is nothing really tricky to get there (but there will obviously be uphill on the A7 until you turn off for the B7007): http://www.greenbank.org/misc/lel_profile_final_section.jpg

I'll clean up the GPX file (removing the timestamps and correcting the small glitches) and make it available. People can then download it and analyse it as much as they want.

I'm not worried about the first half going North at all. I didn't have a problem doing it in 3 days (rather than 2.5 but on a longer route), on fixed (76" to Thorne, 67" from then on), having to use commercial controls (time consuming) rather than having food cooked for me, bottles refilled, etc and carrying more stuff than I will be on LEL (as I didn't have bag drops) but I did have good weather (in March not July), only one other rider so no hiding/slipstreaming in a bunch either. I felt good at Alston and could easily have carried onto Eskdalemuir as there's nothing hugely tricky in between. Coming South the only bit I'm worried about is Yad Moss, but only the 10km section that includes Alston (where I can have a rest at the control anyway), the rest of it is relatively gentle.

That's how I'd sum up the hills on LEL. Mainly gentle and easily graded. Anything steep is short enough that I managed to get up it on fixed without having to walk.

The Southern 400km (until Coxwold/Crayke) would easily pass the Audax description of "flat".

I'm a poor climber (BMI over 25) and wouldn't class myself as a strong rider at all, I usually finish near the back of the field in most Audaxes often competing for lanterne rouge, but I guess 2 years of riding fixed has given me reasonable leg strength and grim determination (it's often easier/faster to grimp up than walk so I just get on with it).

For me, this ride will not be about hills at all, but avoiding niggling injuries that could bring the ride to an end, and having the grim determination to get back on the bike every day when I wake up after not quite enough sleep.

[vorsprung]

The original question "what gears" is dumb anyway. No answer to that question is going to be very useful. More appropriately would be to understand the terrain and let the originator of the question decide what gears he needs for it.

I think my rambling answer to the question ends by concluding that near the end of the event it's surprising just how low a gear is good

[richie]

My gearing is going to consist of 52-42-30 with a 12-27 cassette. 
Simply because that is what is on my bike at the moment and i can't be asked (or afford) to change it......

[Redlight]

As with any aspect of equipment, I'd suggest sticking with what you're used to rather than making a change so close to a major event. I imagine you will get up most hills without too much stress and if there is the odd patch that hurts then there's no shame in walking a bit (he says, having admitted to doing just that in the current mag). From the sounds of it you won't be the only one - I'll see you on those cobbles.

[Datameister]

I'm not proud, but I am fat.

I'm packing a 46-36-26 with an 11-27 on the back. You be able to recognise me, I'll be the fat bloke riding the last 400km on 26-27.

[mattc]

That's how I'd sum up the hills on LEL. Mainly gentle and easily graded. Anything steep is short enough that I managed to get up it on fixed without having to walk.

The Southern 400km (until Coxwold/Crayke) would easily pass the Audax description of "flat".

Astonishingly, GB's analysis turned out to be right. Which was nice.

I could probably have stayed in the saddle everywhere except
- Various bits either side of Alston (but Yad Moss was OK),
- Crayke, and
- Short steep stuff just outside Cheshunt.

However, I could have used something lower than my 30x26. I had 28x26 on PBP and that let me spin up everything on that ride. I was grinding a little on the long scottish climbs - got round OK, but could have used a couple less inches.(ooh-err)

Odd - I was geared low enough for the steep stuff, but not the gentle stuff! Not worth buying a new chainset, but worth a new chainring in hindsight.

[nic]

Got around on my usual setup. 50/34 at the front and 12-27 at the back. Only engaged the front ring on some descents, some the flatter bits of the 1st day to Coxwold and a sleep deprivation-induced crazed moment at 42kph to Burton near Lincoln to remove some boredom and blow the cobwebs.

The granny, aka 34x27, was used on a few occasions including the Alston cobbles, Crayge and a rather silly night time overspin with mattc, jean-jacques and a couple of others after Thurlby which led to a few laughs 

I also went through a section of the ride where my gears were stuck on 34x12. The novelty of spinning a biggish gear on the rolling terrain of Lincolnshire wore off quite quickly. 1) it wasn't a very compatible with group riding 2) it was making more spend more energy than necessary

I doubt I could have finished the ride in a good shape or at all if the controller at Thurlby hadn't done some excellent work on the bike to mend/replace the munched gear cable. 

[Chris N]

67" was good.  No need to walk, including Alston.