Author Topic: SA S3X and the FWC  (Read 4257 times)

SA S3X and the FWC
« on: June 12, 2009, 05:28:14 pm »
Split out from the Irish Mail thread as it's got nothing to do with that...

66" for the way out, 70" for back down the A5. :thumbsup:

Does that mean you can't claim this ride for the FWC given you're gearing ratio is not fixed :P

It's not called the FGC - though perhaps it should be esp. when people start turning up with SA S3X hubs...

A S3X isn't really within the spirit of the FWC. It's not the "I can't freewheel challenge". It's the challenge of grimping
up the climbs on the same gear that you have to spin down the descents. Flipping a wheel round once half-way round a ride is hardly the same as being able to use a 50" gear to go up and a 100" gear to come down, with a 75" gear for the flat bits inbetween, and being able to flit between them at will.

I'd allow S3X hubs into the FWC if the users stop for 3 minutes at the road side every time they want to change gear to simulate a flip/flop hub. Slathering their hands in chain oil/dirt and brake-dust-dirt from the rim each time is entirely optional.

I wonder if Mr Phipps has an opinion on it...
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2009, 05:39:20 pm »
Not sure I understand what my  esteemed friend Greenbank is saying since ICBA to read the other threads, but IMHO changing gear is not in the spirit of the FWC

chris

  • (aka chris)
Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2009, 05:40:14 pm »
I feel a new award coming on -

The Sturmey Challange

Awarded to the rider amassing
the most points in one
season using a SA hub


who knows, we might even get 'zilla to take part ;)

Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2009, 05:42:52 pm »
Just funckiug ride it on your bike, it's only a bike ride.

Weirdy Biker

Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2009, 05:46:08 pm »
Borat say he like make s3x party

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2009, 06:06:54 pm »
Just funckiug ride it on your bike, it's only a bike ride.

Set up bike however you like it.  Get on bike.  Ride it.  Stop when you need to.  Smile if you still have the energy.  Job done.
Getting there...

Phixie

  • No gears and all the ideas
Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2009, 01:01:59 am »
Split out from the Irish Mail thread as it's got nothing to do with that...

66" for the way out, 70" for back down the A5. :thumbsup:

Does that mean you can't claim this ride for the FWC given you're gearing ratio is not fixed :P

It's not called the FGC - though perhaps it should be esp. when people start turning up with SA S3X hubs...

A S3X isn't really within the spirit of the FWC. It's not the "I can't freewheel challenge". It's the challenge of grimping
up the climbs on the same gear that you have to spin down the descents. Flipping a wheel round once half-way round a ride is hardly the same as being able to use a 50" gear to go up and a 100" gear to come down, with a 75" gear for the flat bits inbetween, and being able to flit between them at will.

I'd allow S3X hubs into the FWC if the users stop for 3 minutes at the road side every time they want to change gear to simulate a flip/flop hub. Slathering their hands in chain oil/dirt and brake-dust-dirt from the rim each time is entirely optional.

I wonder if Mr Phipps has an opinion on it...

Exactly so.

If you want to buy a S3X, then go right ahead, get it fitted to your iron and go and ride it.  I hope it increases the pleasure and range of your rides.

However, if you want to use it on the FWC or SFW, you will be disappointed, as I shall not allow it.  From this standpoint, the additional challange of these schemes is to select a good compromise height of gear that will allow you to climb the hills without your thighs exploding, and at other times on the ride, swooping down them without your knees melting.  For that reason a single freewheel gear is ineligible for these challenges, as anyone can pick a low enough gear to twiddle up all the hills, then enjoy a relaxed descent without pedalling at all.  In  previous times, Sturmey did a two speed fixed hub which was suspect then, and time will not have improved it.  It is also possible to swap sprockets over (within limitations of chain adjustment) which will give a small difference.  I am not overjoyed with that, but the facility has been employed for so long now that to proscribe it would probably be less fair than retaining it.  Theoretically it is possible to do the same with the chainring  to achieve a greater difference (eg 50/14 and 44/20) but Mal Volio has admitted previously to suffering chain breakages under this system, so took the hint not to buck the system.  Wise man!  Quite recently, Surly has come up with double sprocket, which I have not known to be used over here, and which like the example above, may cause chainline problems.  Again, I am unenthusiastic about allowing its use.  Finally, there is the S3X, which, with three wide-spaced ratios, makes a mockery of the challenge, so will not knowingly be eligible on rides to be validated for the above two challenges.

Just a clarification now:  I have no problem with choosing a different size gear for a different event - say 90" for a flat ride in East Anglia or 50" for a Super Grimpeur, but prefer the ratio to be unchanged during that ride.

Don't stop pedalling!
At the end of the day, when all's said and done, there's usually a lot more said than done.

Charlotte

  • Dissolute libertine
  • Here's to ol' D.H. Lawrence...
    • charlottebarnes.co.uk
Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2009, 08:20:39 am »
Fair comment.  I'd like to try one for my commuting bike maybe, but in my eyes it wouldn't be a fixer any more.

I've been known to flip my flop on brevets, though.  Steve A once made me turn my wheel over, 'cos he knew I was going to struggle in the lumpy bits.  How are you with double sided hubs, Mr P?
Commercial, Editorial and PR Photographer - www.charlottebarnes.co.uk

Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2009, 09:36:35 am »
The whole point of fixed gear is simplicity. The S3X isn't that.

Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2009, 09:41:26 am »
Fair comment.  I'd like to try one for my commuting bike maybe, but in my eyes it wouldn't be a fixer any more.

I've been known to flip my flop on brevets, though.  Steve A once made me turn my wheel over, 'cos he knew I was going to struggle in the lumpy bits.  How are you with double sided hubs, Mr P?

When I read

Quote
It is also possible to swap sprockets over (within limitations of chain adjustment) which will give a small difference.  I am not overjoyed with that, but the facility has been employed for so long now that to proscribe it would probably be less fair than retaining it.

I thought he was thinking of flipping a wheel over rather than monkeying a sprocket off.

Don't do it kids. One ride, one gear.

Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2009, 09:44:34 am »
It's not against the (very minimal and very sensible) guidelines of the FWC, so I'm going to carry on flipping my wheel as and when conditions dictate.  I'll walk too, if I have to.

Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2009, 10:27:45 am »
Thanks Phixie.

I've taken two (or three3) gears on a ride in case I needed a bailout gear, but have yet to employ it. Partly through apathy and partly because the worst bits of rides tend to be in the middle and once they've taken their toll I'm on the way home so there's not much point.

The closest I've come was swapping gear at Thorne (76" to 67") on the start of day 2 of my London to Edinburgh, but each day was a separate DIY so not a problem (despite my numptiness with the chain).

3. Normal 17T sprocket on one side of the hub. Other side has a Miche Sprocket Carrier with an 18T sprocket on it, and carrying a 16T Miche sprocket in the bag. Changing the Miche sprockets only requires a lockring spanner, the carrier that screws onto the hub stays in place.

I shall do my utmost not anger the FWC Gods in the future.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Phixie

  • No gears and all the ideas
Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2009, 12:02:14 am »
The whole point of fixed gear is simplicity. The S3X isn't that.

Agreed.  For many of us it's also about minimal maintenance.  Dunno how this new hub will rate on that score.

When I mentioned swapping cogs upthread, I did have a double sided hub in mind - as I say you will get a small advantage, but you can't make that big a change unless you change the chain length, which will take too long to make it worthwhile.  Go for it if you will, but don't forget gloves or you will get filthy hands.  As GB says you can take a few Miche sprockets and a C-spanner if weight isn't important, but that does seem a little like overkill.  I seem to recall someone (MV?) having problems with that system before an important ride because of eccentricity – the cog, not the rider! 
Again, you are limited by chain adjustment
At the end of the day, when all's said and done, there's usually a lot more said than done.

Weirdy Biker

Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2009, 12:11:28 am »
Just a clarification now:  I have no problem with choosing a different size gear for a different event - say 90" for a flat ride in East Anglia or 50" for a Super Grimpeur, but prefer the ratio to be unchanged during that ride.

I was surprised to learn that some riders flipped their wheels when riding for fixed wheel points, but then again I'm a stickler for doing things by the book.  All of my fixed rides have been done on a single gear ratio and I purposefully did my fixed SR on the same cog (69 inches).  for me its part of the challenge and fun of riding fixed - wondering if you've gone too big, too low or hit the sweet spot.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2009, 12:22:15 am »
I use Miche track cogs and they've worked fine for me. The only drawback is the largest cog available is 18T which limits chain ring options. To date I've only flipped my wheel on the BCM and Irish Mail, going from 71" to 67" once the hills start in earnest (a lot sooner on the Irish Mail than on the BCM, I can tell you). Its a funny thing but having flipped the wheel once, I've not flipped it back! Even in Wales it's simply not worth the hassle of flipping wheels at the top and bottom of every climb and a short enough gear to a significant impact on the climbs would make descending and flat sections really hard work. Like Phixie says, selecting a gear is a balancing act, and yes, a multi fixed gear hub allowing riders to dial up a gear would make for a completely different event.

MikeFromLFE

  • Previously known as Millimole
Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2009, 04:36:05 pm »
I feel a new award coming on -

The Sturmey Challange

Awarded to the rider amassing
the most points in one
season using a SA hub


who knows, we might even get 'zilla to take part ;)

I beleive a 'Hub Gear Challenge' was seriously proposed, maybe ten years ago - certainly before the days of the Rohloff!
Too many angry people - breathe & relax.

Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2009, 09:34:34 am »
There is a "Tin Can Ten" TT every year for hub-geared bikes.  Presumably some git turns up with an AF or FC (the ultra-close and ultra-rare ratio four speeds) and wins every time.

I did use an AM (medium ratio 87/100/116) in the Brompton World Championships, and it was good.
Never tell me the odds.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2009, 03:14:14 am »

I beleive a 'Hub Gear Challenge' was seriously proposed, maybe ten years ago - certainly before the days of the Rohloff!

I thought it actually existed for a few years, there was a link to it on the AUK website in 2001 but disappeared not long afterwards.

I've ridden the Tin Can Ten a couple of times (aiming at best for mid-pack) and can thoroughly recommend it.  It has been won with an AW! Tin Can Ten
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #18 on: November 02, 2009, 09:47:52 am »
The illustration on the first page of the "AUK Hall Of Fame" in the AUK Handbook (p35 of the 2008 version that's currently online) includes, amongst other non-existent awards, an award for "Most rides on a 3-Speed Hub".
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Euan Uzami

Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2009, 11:00:34 pm »
ah, so all this talk of "FWC" and it transpires that it means 'fixed wheel challenge', and here's me thinking it means fred whitton challenge  ::-) ::-) ;) ;) could the two be combi... nah, ridiculous idea !

Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #20 on: November 05, 2009, 06:28:42 am »
At university there was a somewhat portly and unpleasant bloke by the name of Aled.

He was known as The FWC.
Never tell me the odds.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #21 on: November 05, 2009, 12:31:52 pm »
So the FWC* FWC could ride the FWC?

(*I assume this is "Chap")
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: SA S3X and the FWC
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2009, 08:50:06 pm »
So,

There once was a bloke called Aled,
Who's FWC wasn't valid,
Had knobbly knees,
And filthy hankees,
And he never ate his salad.