Performance measurement

[simonp]

I'm gonna get me some of this.  Have made inquiries at one of the local unis (Anglia Ruskin) after discovering that Adenbrooke's no have a Sports Medicine facility due to lack of funding.    For £100 they will do this:

Body composition: height, mass, skinfolds, surface area, girths
Lung function
Bloods screening
Power test (6s maximal cycles)
Incremental ramp test for determination of lactate, heart rate and VO2 responses.
Full report highlighting all of the above plus:
VO2max
Lactate/HR/power-based training zones
Training advice

Should be interesting.  I've been guesstimating I have a lactate threshold around the 200W level and VO2max is probably around 50.  Getting accurate training zones would be helpful in getting the best out of the powertap.

They can't fit me in before 24th August due to a refurbishment but that should give me time to recover from LEL. 

[mike]

VO2 max tests are nice.... I did one on the rowing machine years ago and was very nearly sick. Probably best to do it after LEL

[simonp]

The last time I did a similar test was at a gym when I was about 25.  I think it was a submaximal test; no breathing mask just an estimation.  Score was 65.7; if accurate then that was quite good.

I feel I'm currently fitter than I've ever been but I wouldn't expect to match that score; for one thing I'm heavier (and 12 years older).

[simonp]

Finally got a booking for this.  Next Friday afternoon.  Should be fun. 

[Tom M]

You still alive then?

[simonp]

Aye.

VO2max: 54.5; about what I expected.

LT: 250W, which is quite a bit higher than expected.

Nearly got to 400W on the VO2max test before the legs said "no!"

Full report to follow in about 5 days.

Another snippet was that my skin folds were higher than he'd expect for a cyclist "you're not skinny for a cyclist".

So will all the people telling me I'm too skinny pls now shut up? 

 

[simonp]

Oh.  And the fact my LT is about 50W higher than I thought means I need to work harder during interval training.

Bollocks!

Also, it suggests the reason I often "blow up" during audax events isn't fitness, since I'm riding way below my LT when this happens.  Nutrition, maybe.

[mattc]

Also, it suggests the reason I often "blow up" during audax events isn't fitness, since I'm riding way below my LT when this happens.  Nutrition, maybe.

Doesn't surprise me - you seem to have a speed variation of around 30% on longer rides ! And most of your RRs start with some sort of breakfast disaster. Starting LEL at 2pm probably avoided these issues (or at least postponed them until days later).

Maybe training isn't all that important after all

[gonzo]

You could have great fun with a power meter and a short course without traffic; you can work out how aerodynamic you are!

[simonp]

Also, it suggests the reason I often "blow up" during audax events isn't fitness, since I'm riding way below my LT when this happens.  Nutrition, maybe.

Doesn't surprise me - you seem to have a speed variation of around 30% on longer rides ! And most of your RRs start with some sort of breakfast disaster. Starting LEL at 2pm probably avoided these issues (or at least postponed them until days later).

Maybe training isn't all that important after all

Ah, you read my mind!

So... have to work out how to extract my potential as much as anything else.

[simonp]

You could have great fun with a power meter and a short course without traffic; you can work out how aerodynamic you are!

One of the things to come out of the report will be my frontal surface area - useful for determining my Cd

Presumably this (frontal area) is going to be affected by position also though, so it's not quite that simple.

[simonp]

Maybe training isn't all that important after all

If my VO2max is @375W and my LT is @250W then the goal should be to reduce the gap between those two.

Typical is LT at 60% VO2max, amateur cyclist at 65%-85% VO2max and pros are 85%-95% VO2max.

250/375 is 66% so that suggests I'm at the bottom end of the scale for an amateur, and with appropriate training I could improve a lot.

[simonp]

As my own HRM was used during the test, we have a pic of the HR chart:

Heart rate during LT & vo2max test on Twitpic

Two spikes between 20 and 30 mins are 6s power tests.

Series of increasing bumps are 25W power increments x 3 minutes for LT test (starting from 100W, reaching 275W).

Final ramp is 25W increase every minute til I give up (started at 250W, final 57s at 375W before I conked out).

In between various things, warm up, staying on bike and spinning at 100W between LT test and vo2max test, warm down.

Fun. 

[Greenbank]

Looks good. Part of my "training" this year is to do something similar.

[simonp]

Got the full report by email today with lots of detail additional to what I already reported.

I'm waay too fat apparently.  Body fat 18.0%.

[gonzo]

You could have great fun with a power meter and a short course without traffic; you can work out how aerodynamic you are!

One of the things to come out of the report will be my frontal surface area - useful for determining my Cd

Presumably this (frontal area) is going to be affected by position also though, so it's not quite that simple.

Generally, Cd on its own is a pretty pointless measurement for a cyclist as you aren't going to be scaled! All you need to know/compare is CdA!

Edit: you can work out your frontal area with a camera and a white sheet and GIMP.

[simonp]

After my weight loss down to 70kg that should increase my relative VO2max to 57.5 from 54.5 at the time of the test. 

If I get my weight down to 62kg then my VO2max would be 65, i.e. elite cyclist level.

I think I was last that weight in 1994, when I used to wear 28" jeans. 

[scottlington]

As my own HRM was used during the test, we have a pic of the HR chart:

Heart rate during LT & vo2max test on Twitpic

Two spikes between 20 and 30 mins are 6s power tests.

Series of increasing bumps are 25W power increments x 3 minutes for LT test (starting from 100W, reaching 275W).

Final ramp is 25W increase every minute til I give up (started at 250W, final 57s at 375W before I conked out).

In between various things, warm up, staying on bike and spinning at 100W between LT test and vo2max test, warm down.

Fun. 

So, to extrapolate:

They determined your LT by 3 min increments of 25W starting at 100W?
They determined your vo2max by 1 min increments of 25W starting at 250W?

Interesting. I purchased a turbo trainer just before Christmas and have been trying to wade through the plethora on info on the net to find a useful test for all these sorts of base stats. LT, FTP, vo2max etc, without the need to go to a specialist. Yes, they would provide more accurate results but if what you say above is what they did, I can do that myself and get some pretty useful feedback.

For example, I did the 3 min ramp test last weekend (albeit 20W increments starting at 150W). I conked out about a minute into 290W which by the formula of that test put my LT at 277W but I have no real benchmark.  Also, that test said it was for FTP, not LT (or are they the same...). Basically, how accurate is that 

I'm presuming by the fact your test was conducted scientifically, that 1min increments from 250W is a good enough indicator of vo2max that I can do it at home and be reasonably accurate wiht the results?

Also, what do you recommed for FTP test?

[simonp]

FTP is closely related to LT but isn't quite the same thing - this link:

Functional Threshold Power

 - suggests LT is at ~105% of FTP.  So you can estimate LT by multiplying FTP by 1.05.

I never got close to conking out on my LT test since it was directly measuring the LT point via blood tests.  I held 275W for 3 minutes at the end of the test, and my LT was calculated to be 225W.  I feel that I could have held 300W, but my mean maximal power data shows me having held 301W for only 2:48 on 21st Nov 2009.  That's not quite the same thing because that was during a long (100km) bike ride rather than on a ramp test, though.

Here are the raw data from my test: you can see the sudden increase in lactate at 225W.  Below that intensity, the curve is pretty much flat.  I'm not sure why there's a higher level but it might be because previously I'd done the peak power test where I hit 1300W and was still recovering from that.

Workload (Watts)	Cadence (rpm)	Lactate mM.L-1	Heart rate bpm
100	85	2.8	120
125	85	1.8	125
150	85	1.3	131
175	85	1.8	134
200	85	1.8	145
225	85	2.6	155
250	85	5.0	160
275	85	5.8	167

[border-rider]

I've been playing this weekend on an exercise bike with a power measurement function, and it's impressive

My power/HR data looks much like yours, but i reckon that with some training I could increase the power quite a lot; I've noticed that years of audax have slowed me down a lot.  I'm tempted by a Power Tap, I must say...

[nmcgann]

I've been playing this weekend on an exercise bike with a power measurement function, and it's impressive

My power/HR data looks much like yours, but i reckon that with some training I could increase the power quite a lot; I've noticed that years of audax have slowed me down a lot.  I'm tempted by a Power Tap, I must say...

 

[simonp]

Heh.  In which case you might be interested in this:

FixedGearFever - Content (How to convert a PowerTap to fixed)

SRM is perhaps a better bet for fixed, as it's on the cranks, but it's a lot more expensive.

One advantage of the SRM is that drivetrain losses are after the power measurement rather than before, so it more accurately measures your effort level.

[border-rider]

 

Just need to buy one then...

Which one ? Any advantage over the basicest model ?

[border-rider]

mmm

I was only ever going to use this on the turbotrainer; it seems much cheaper just to buy a new TT with a built in power meter....I really CBA converting a bike to 8-speed just to fit a Power Tap, or buggering about fitting a Fixxer to one.

[Rich753]

I did the 20 min FTP test on a WATTbike, and have been using that to guide my interval work.   I also did  3x 10 sec, 1 min and 5 min tests (it was a bl@@dy hard lunchtime, I can tell you!), as "recommended" by Andrew Coggan.

Peak on 10 sec  836 w
1 min avg 428 w
5 min avg 307 w
20 min avg 260 w

My peak is curiously rubbish, tho' I suspect this is partly a technique thing.

I'm pretty sure that there is a significant learning ramp, just working out pacing strategy, gearing etc, but this data means I can design interval sessions for myself, varying them as to what I want to train, it's great!!

last few weeks have been a bit disrupted, so time for a new baselining ...