Author Topic: The future of LEL  (Read 15884 times)

The future of LEL
« on: 16 August, 2009, 06:34:04 pm »
While preparing my report to the committee on the international side of LEL I've been thinking a bit on the future of LEL. The growth of LEL over the past 12 years has made it more and more difficult for a single person to handle the organisation. Both Simon and Mel (during part of the organisation) had more time available as most people. Still it was not enough. LEL organisation started about 2-3 years before the event. This has proved to be quite late. So it is important to set up structures and get the right people at the right places before that moment. For next LEL, seeing the interest we had now and the reactions on various internet fora, especially abroad, I'd estimate the market at 1000-1500 participants, quite likely more than can be handled. How many participants we can handle should be decided before PBP since most information to possible riders is usually handed out there.
In order to handle this a good team is needed. A team with both visionary leaders and down to earth members more keen at handling administrative and financial tasks. Some with a high amount of technical skills and some who excel more at human communication. And part of that team should consist of veterans of earlier LEL organisation. The worst would be that yet again the organisers of LEL have to start from scratch.
The structure of LEL will be decided by the committee. We have quite a number of committee members aboard YACF so constructive suggestions on this board will easily find their way to the relevant committee members.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #1 on: 16 August, 2009, 08:45:43 pm »
Everybody I've spoken to regarding the future organisation has said much the same thing, i.e., next time round, whether the event has 300, 500 and 1500 riders, the event is too big for one person to undertake, and the need is to form a team and supporting infrastructure which will allow the event to run smoothly and without undue stress and dependency on specific individuals.

What's not clear at this stage is exactly how this will be initiated and indeed what  AUK aspirations are for LEL. There seems to be a question mark over (for want of a better term) the ownership of the event. It has been said that from the perspective of AUK, LEL is just another calendar event run by an organiser. This may or may not be correct, regardless the increasing size and international exposure of LEL means that such a 'hands off' approach may not be appropriate in future. Similarly, just because there may be potential demand for 1500 or even more places doesn't mean to say that this will be deemed desireable.

As a first step forward it would be useful if AUK/the LEL organiser could clarify the decision making timetable and process so that AUK members can effectively voice their views and volunteer assistence as appropriate. For example, is this something which will be included in the forthcoming AUK AGM, or should prospective volunteers simply make themselves known to Melita?

Chris S

Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #2 on: 16 August, 2009, 09:06:20 pm »
Yes. Someone (read also some "Group") needs to "own" LEL. Either it's an AUK event, or the "flagship Audax UK event" or it's not. If it's nothing to do with AUK other than they get to put their badge on the cards - whatever - all that needs to be sorted out now.

I lived under the illusion that this was the "flagship event" for AUK - in reality, the committee only took a back-office role. That seems weird to me. Whatever happens - and no disrespect whatsoever to Mel who has done as sterling a job as any one person could do - it needs more than one person.

Professionally - I deal with QA and Systems verification. Having one person responsible for something that a lot of people rely on is always a Bad Thing and a sign of poor organisation.

I don't rule out the possibility I could ride next time. It would be great if it all went like a well oiled machine...

Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #3 on: 16 August, 2009, 09:18:00 pm »
As a first step forward it would be useful if AUK/the LEL organiser could clarify the decision making timetable and process so that AUK members can effectively voice their views and volunteer assistence as appropriate. For example, is this something which will be included in the forthcoming AUK AGM, or should prospective volunteers simply make themselves known to Melita?

It would be good if the organisation team has a specific volunteers coordinator. Someone with excellent communication and human talents (only basic computer knowledge needed for this task).
On the timetable, the committee has a meeting at the end of september. The past LEL will be on the agenda. Can one of the committee members clarify untill what extent the future of LEL is on the agenda? I'll, for my part, include some clear advice on the international side of LEL in my report to both Mel and the committee. Detailed advice on the controls etc. I prefer to leave to those who ran them.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #4 on: 16 August, 2009, 09:32:35 pm »
As a first step forward it would be useful if AUK/the LEL organiser could clarify the decision making timetable and process so that AUK members can effectively voice their views and volunteer assistence as appropriate. For example, is this something which will be included in the forthcoming AUK AGM, or should prospective volunteers simply make themselves known to Melita?

It would be good if the organisation team has a specific volunteers coordinator. Someone with excellent communication and human talents (only basic computer knowledge needed for this task).
On the timetable, the committee has a meeting at the end of september. The past LEL will be on the agenda. Can one of the committee members clarify untill what extent the future of LEL is on the agenda? I'll, for my part, include some clear advice on the international side of LEL in my report to both Mel and the committee. Detailed advice on the controls etc. I prefer to leave to those who ran them.

But who are the commitee, and who is Number One?

Fidgetbuzz

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Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #5 on: 16 August, 2009, 09:35:28 pm »
I am very interested in the future of LEL, purely from the point of making this event a great success and something that we can all be proud of.
I have already written a very short paper which I am sending to Keith Benton , our Chairman, as a laymans input of constructive thought about the future. what he does with it - is entirely up to him.

However this was my post of 2nd August on the debrief thread

I do not know how AUK management works and the skills that team members bring - so please see these comments as the input of someone who was a senior exec. of a large private company, but without knowledge of our organisation

In my view it is critical that an early decision is made about the maximum number of riders that we wish to see - this then impacts directly on the control facilities that have to be found and put in place. Whether this rider number is 500/750/1000 is for others to decide -- but if an increase of say 250 was envisaged - then we MUST know that we can handle this number by the time we get round to accepting entries. So I suggest an early decision on 2013 size and a tasked group ( probably starting by asking this years controllers ) to see what additional size this years facilities could accept - by bringing in extra catering and sleeping facilities if necessary. Then we know whether we already have the required size capability or have to find new facilities in a certain number of locations. If needed then we look and book now - not in 2012.

I have no knowledge of the structure of command and control that was in place for this year ( and no I was never in the Army - but the words seem right).

I would suggest that there is something like a LEL supervisory Board of 3 or 5 people ( odd number please), who find and appoint their Boss person - called  Chief Exec in my terms. This group with major input from the CE then breaks the tasks down and recruits people to undertake these tasks  - I think something like this was done - but I get a feeling that it went wrong at some time. The CE is a delegater and thinker and has virtually no involvement in "hands on" running the show - but is critical in supporting, delegating, monitoring, controlling and taking any final decisions which require  a "buck stops here" decision

Do we have a critical path analysis for this year ?

I would not want to seem to be just putting up ideas- and have already indicated that I would be very willing to help in such matters as entry admin and / or finance ( my background), as I very much doubt that I would ride 2013 ( too old)


I stand by this note - and believe that the finding of someone able to have a clear view of what 2013 should be like - and who can then recruit, motivate and keep a team going to deliver his/her view is absolutely critical.
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #6 on: 16 August, 2009, 09:44:15 pm »


But who are the commitee, and who is Number One?

The committee is the AUK committee. They are the responsible body for the running of AUK. Mel was appointed by them several years ago as LEL organiser.

Shinna

  • It didn't kill me, but I don't feel any stronger.
Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #7 on: 17 August, 2009, 09:55:29 pm »
As a new comer to Audaxing, and an LEL first time participant. can I just say what an amazing eperience LEL was and hopefully will it long remain to be. I would dearly love to ride it again in 2013, so have a vested interest in it still be around.
For my two pen'uth would a good starting point be a clear vision on what LEL is. Is it just another Audax ride, or is the flagship event of Audax UK. For example, my  belief is that RAAM is a seperatley run company from the UMCA, and as such has a clearly defined purpose. It also has to self fund, self promote and remain financially viable. The UMCA are the governing body, and as such, leave the the event organisation and promotion to RAAM itself. From such a starting point, would it not be then that numbers of participants etc would be decided. (I think that this correct).
My post is not meant to be impertinent, nor is meant to be critical of any individual or the AUK. What drives it is the many posts that I see that, to a novice, appear to give an apperance of a lack of a clear goal of what the event is.
From my conversations with many of the foreign riders on LEL, it is on the global calendar for many long distancers, and has a growing following in the UK. ( It even got a mention by James Cracknell), and as such can only serve to enhance the exposure of AUK.
In closing can I just thank everyone that made LEL the incredible experience that it was for me. A memory that will last a lifetime.

border-rider

Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #8 on: 17 August, 2009, 10:06:25 pm »
would a good starting point be a clear vision on what LEL is. Is it just another Audax ride, or is the flagship event of Audax UK.

That hits the nail on the head for me.

I suspect it's been addressed until now by AUK as pretty-much as the latter, but it's outgrown that in terms of size and (more importantly) reputation. 

alan

Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #9 on: 17 August, 2009, 10:15:25 pm »
I sincerely hope that it does not become the victim of it's own success.

Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #10 on: 17 August, 2009, 10:34:18 pm »
I sincerely hope that it does not become the victim of it's own success.

I think there's enough going on in the background to ensure that doesn't happen.

Really Ancien

Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #11 on: 18 August, 2009, 01:31:53 am »
I hope that organisers are not deterred by the degree of scrutiny that is exhibited in these pages. Personally I'm still on a personal excursion, which just happens to be facilitated by the provision of some support at checkpoints, often by family members. Who is this James Cracknell, of whom we hear. Does he have any record of successful long distance cycling?

Damon.

Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #12 on: 18 August, 2009, 08:24:29 am »
I hope that organisers are not deterred by the degree of scrutiny that is exhibited in these pages.

Me too. it was a great event, room for improvement but nonetheless a great event.  I'll support it again by helping and riding in the future

border-rider

Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #13 on: 18 August, 2009, 08:29:02 am »
I hope that organisers are not deterred by the degree of scrutiny that is exhibited in these pages. Personally I'm still on a personal excursion, which just happens to be facilitated by the provision of some support at checkpoints

I think this is a good point.  Whatever form future LELs take, this model for the rest of the calendar should sustain.  One concern I have is that LEL has moved (or is at any rate in the process of moving) to new territory, where trying to persuade others that it fits it to this model might be increasingly unconvincing.

LEL needs, I think, to be considered much more as a special case just so that there is minimal impact on other events.

Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #14 on: 18 August, 2009, 08:32:44 am »
Taking Damons and MVs messages together, are you suggesting that it may appear that LEL is moving towards and event where riders should expect to be well supported by the event itself, that is, have full backup. i.e. moving away from the 'self sufficiency' ?

border-rider

Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #15 on: 18 August, 2009, 08:37:53 am »
Well, I wasn't, no.  I was addressing more the "personal excursion" aspect, which I think might start to look like an increasingly flimsy argument as numbers and event complexity increase.

But that's a good point - I just wonder to how great an extent the stated self-sufficiency actually would let the organisation of the hook if something went wrong.  For an x-rated event, or a one with commercial controls and a handful of riders, I can see the case being rather more defensible than for LEL...and as Damon says that is something we need to preserve.  That preservation process might involve making more of a special case for LEL.

Rob

Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #16 on: 18 August, 2009, 08:42:03 am »
I hope that organisers are not deterred by the degree of scrutiny that is exhibited in these pages.

I think that this is not just about LEL.   I quit organising a few years ago, but I did find on my latter events that riders would leave after finishing, go home, log on and bitch about the whole event.

On the last 200 I ran I received, from one rider, a couple of pages of critique of the routesheet, the controls and the food, recommending a series of changes.

It did help me to make my mind up about whether to carry on or not.

border-rider

Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #17 on: 18 August, 2009, 08:48:07 am »
I hope that organisers are not deterred by the degree of scrutiny that is exhibited in these pages.

I think that this is not just about LEL.   I quit organising a few years ago, but I did find on my latter events that riders would leave after finishing, go home, log on and bitch about the whole event.

That's not good for a normal calendar event, I agree entirely.  LEL's maybe an exception though, and I think it's not unreasonable to expect post-event analysis.  As I've posted a couple of times now, the idea of that analysis is meant to be positive and constructive, and there is a specific place for less positive comments to be made that can be fed-back without causing discomfort by their public airing:

Comments on  & suggestions for LEL

Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #18 on: 18 August, 2009, 08:54:02 am »
I hope that organisers are not deterred by the degree of scrutiny that is exhibited in these pages.

I think that this is not just about LEL.   I quit organising a few years ago, but I did find on my latter events that riders would leave after finishing, go home, log on and bitch about the whole event.

On the last 200 I ran I received, from one rider, a couple of pages of critique of the routesheet, the controls and the food, recommending a series of changes.

It did help me to make my mind up about whether to carry on or not.

It's not very nice. I suspect same people wouldn't dare to call you or meet face to face to say the same things whatever they may have been. It's easy to hide behind a keyboard and screen and have half duplex communication, forgetting that real people are out there with real lives and real emotions, not great faceless corporate bodies.

alan

Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #19 on: 18 August, 2009, 09:19:28 am »
I hope that organisers are not deterred by the degree of scrutiny that is exhibited in these pages.

.

On the last 200 I ran I received, from one rider, a couple of pages of critique of the routesheet, the controls and the food, recommending a series of changes.




That's a shitty practice >:(

This was type of criticism was discussed on Saturday by myself & another formite & we agreed that it is not appropriate to destructively criticise another man untill you have walked a mile in his shoes

Really Ancien

Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #20 on: 18 August, 2009, 10:07:02 am »
It would be possible to envisage, in a flight of fancy, an event to coincide with the Olympics. Extend the course a bit, double the entrants, start it from the new velodrome, send it to a new Scottish velodrome, call it 'The Thousand' after the distance and the number of participants, involve celebrities and politicians, sell it as a celebration of the human spirit as it enters its Autumn years. A rage against the dying of the light. I could do you a video treatment from what I've got, pointing in that direction if you wanted.
But it would be a construct, smeared on top of a magnificent story of a lot of people muddling through, with the occasional good joke on the way.
I was talking recently to a friend about the way in which clubs get killed by funding and ambition. His poetry club in Lancaster has been forced out of its pub home to the new lottery-funded 'performance space', which has zero ambience and no bar, so the numbers are falling off. A similar thing happened to my old cycle club, we used to meet in a pub, then we got funding, we had to move to a brightly lit village hall, where we all bickered and the secretary resigned and the club was wound up.
I think that if LEL is run like clockwork it will either spin off entirely and be taken over by Bike Events, or some such, or if it is retained 'in house' it will distort AUK by attracting attention which requires funding to cope with, which will bring monitoring in its train, which will deter organisers with loads of form filling and AUK will dwindle. The only thing that will save us is our innate amateurism.
Another thing to consider is the actual experience of the riders. Those who have ridden PBP know the three strands, The heavily supported Vedettes, the fast and experienced Randonneurs and the dogged Touristes. These strands were all represented at LEL, but joined by Sportive riders attempting their first long ride and a Fundraising/Challenge group. We could have limited the latter two groups by pre-qualification, but I think they added a lot to the event. If we examine what happened it is clear that many found ad-hoc accomodation along the way. This built bridges to the local communities in Langholm. Longtown, Brampton and Alston. This could be built on, all these communities value hardiness and character, the people of Alston were very impressed. larger places just resented the traffic disruption.
So my favoured model for a future LEL would be a fairly loosely organised event to retain the family atmosphere, but making more use of community links in the pivotal North Pennine/ Borders area. How that might work in terms of a tarrif I don't know. One possible model might be the Mersey Roads 24 Hour, which is a subscription event. It has an entry fee, but it also takes donations to ensure it is not a drain on the Mersey Road Club. The 24 has an entirely separate accounting structure. Another way that the Mersey Roads might serve as a model is the validation. BlackburnRod, of this parish, resides in splendid isolation in the Raven Cafe, sitting in judgement on the distances ridden. One joy of the 24 is weighing up the chances of newcomers, if you're a subscriber or helper, seeing how they get on is fun to watch, LEL is much the same, if we can create a way of following it online without compromising the event, it might increase any potential subscription element.

Damon.

Mr Larrington

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Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #21 on: 18 August, 2009, 11:35:16 am »

I think that this is not just about LEL.   I quit organising a few years ago, but I did find on my latter events that riders would leave after finishing, go home, log on and bitch about the whole event.

On the last 200 I ran I received, from one rider, a couple of pages of critique of the routesheet, the controls and the food, recommending a series of changes.

It did help me to make my mind up about whether to carry on or not.


There are dickheads everywhere, unfortunately.
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Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #22 on: 18 August, 2009, 12:45:46 pm »
Similar to Damon my preferred option would be a rather loosely organised event retaining the true spirit of AUK for self sufficiency. I feel it would be folly to attempt to become a ‘PBP’ type event
LEL has a uniqueness all of it’s own and for that to disappear in an attempt to deliver a new style of event would in my opinion be a sad loss

Roberto

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Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #23 on: 18 August, 2009, 12:52:07 pm »
I feel it would be folly to attempt to become a ‘PBP’ type event
From the rider's perspective, is LEL really all that different? I mean if you just scaled everything up*, they'd be pretty similar; I'm not sure there are any FUNDAMENTAL differences, it's all just a question of degree.

(Apart from the route signs and the paperwork!)

*And the scenery down.
Has never ridden RAAM
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Re: The future of LEL
« Reply #24 on: 18 August, 2009, 01:15:07 pm »
I feel it would be folly to attempt to become a ‘PBP’ type event

These concerns have been voiced on the French-language forum Super-Randonneur. The comparison was summed up neatly thus
Quote
En terme de comparaison, PBP est à l'industrie, ce que LEL est à l'intimité.
This intimité would be lost if the event were to be scaled up.
Quote
et avec John, excellent lecteur de road-book, on s'en est sortis sans erreur