Author Topic: UPDATE: link to first draft. A single gmap all of the calender ride starts  (Read 5275 times)


FOR UPDATE: see http://sites.google.com/site/robertjohnfrench/

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Is there a google map or similar with ALL of the calender and permanent rides (even just a start marker - not necesserily the whole route).

I know there are links to gmaps for individual rides on the audax site, but it would be great to see them all at once.

I thought it might be possible to do something myself using the postcodes of organisers from the excel calender, but I can't do it.

Craig

Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #1 on: 23 August, 2009, 04:39:18 am »
No, I don't think so. Though I've thought about making one myself.
It would be fairly easy if the calendar listed the event start locations in a standard coordinate format (eg lat/lon or grid references).

As it is, they just list the location as a placename, in a variety of ways. eg some are the village/town name, or some are "place, north of town" etc. So I don't know if there's any easy way of converting these to coordinates en masse. You would need some sort of gazetteer / namefinder service.

The organiser's address/postcode is not necessarily anywhere near where the event starts.
And as for permanents, most of them don't list any location at all...

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #2 on: 23 August, 2009, 10:36:40 am »
I've tried to enthuse the Powers That Be about the benefits of geo-tagging all the event starts but to no avail so far. 
Once it is done, of course a (optional) Google Maps front-end for the Calendar would be a fun project and not too difficult.
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #3 on: 23 August, 2009, 10:39:54 am »
No, I don't think so. Though I've thought about making one myself.
It would be fairly easy if the calendar listed the event start locations in a standard coordinate format (eg lat/lon or grid references).

As it is, they just list the location as a placename, in a variety of ways. eg some are the village/town name, or some are "place, north of town" etc. So I don't know if there's any easy way of converting these to coordinates en masse. You would need some sort of gazetteer / namefinder service.

The organiser's address/postcode is not necessarily anywhere near where the event starts.
And as for permanents, most of them don't list any location at all...
It was one of my irritations when I was less fit, I couldn't find where a ride went to gauge how hard it might be. Certainly put me off some events. I raised it on a forum years ago and was told that the perms are often versions of older calendar events and one is just meant to have the history and know it already, hardly encouraging to newbies like I was at the time.

Panoramix

  • .--. .- -. --- .-. .- -- .. -..-
  • Suus cuique crepitus bene olet
    • Some routes
Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #4 on: 23 August, 2009, 10:47:53 am »
As somebody new to the sport, I would vote for this also!
Chief cat entertainer.

Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #5 on: 23 August, 2009, 02:42:31 pm »
OK, well if no-ones done it yet, I'll give it a go.

I should probably do the permanents first. My plan is to just create a google map and put points at the start of each ride, I'll try and do a few a day, I'm not too techy so it may take a bit.

the link is here, a few on the mesh already: http://sites.google.com/site/robertjohnfrench/

red marley

Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #6 on: 23 August, 2009, 03:10:17 pm »
FrenchiePlus,

If you are going to have a go at doing this (and thanks for putting in the effort), it might also be worth considering how such an approach might be expanded in the future to incorporate the entire route, not just the start/endpoints. This would be particularly useful for perms which can often be started at a range of points along the route. In that way it would be possible to answer the query "list all the perms that pass within x kms of location y".

As for powers that be being resistant, perhaps the incentive of extra riders on their events might be persuasive. I am sure there are some events that I would otherwise do if it was easy for me to find if they were reasonably close to home or an accessible train station. At the moment, it relies either on trial and error, or on knowledge of the locations of the names of the start locations logged on the AUK web site.

Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #7 on: 23 August, 2009, 04:10:40 pm »
That's a great idea. But as I mentioned, I'm not too techy (though happy to read up and learn) the problem is that I can only post one 'route' at a time on google maps whereas I can post as many start points as I please.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #8 on: 23 August, 2009, 05:43:36 pm »
FrenchiePlus,
...
(and thanks for putting in the effort)
+1

Quote
, it might also be worth considering how such an approach might be expanded in the future to incorporate the entire route, not just the start/endpoints. This would be particularly useful for perms which can often be started at a range of points along the route. In that way it would be possible to answer the query "list all the perms that pass within x kms of location y".
This is the holy grail with perms. Since finding DIYs I really can't be arsed to ride a 'normal' perm unless it's based on an event I know, or comes via personal recommendation.

There was a brief flurry of discussion here last year to get a sort of wiki setup, but the powers that be weren't keen due to possible public criticism of events. OR something.

Anyway...
If you take this on, be aware of the maintenance issue. I suppose it's not too bad with perms, but there will be changes (e.g. controls become unusable due to premise closures).
Has never ridden RAAM
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No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

mikewigley

Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #9 on: 23 August, 2009, 05:56:17 pm »
It was one of my irritations when I was less fit, I couldn't find where a ride went to gauge how hard it might be. Certainly put me off some events. I raised it on a forum years ago and was told that the perms are often versions of older calendar events and one is just meant to have the history and know it already, hardly encouraging to newbies like I was at the time.


The PeakAudax website has maps of most of our rides and all of my Perms, and some of them even have Google Map links and gps files, all created using Francis's guidelines in a recent Arrivee.  I too felt frustrated about not knowing where rides might go before I'd entered them and resolved to ensure that the information would be available for mine at least

All at peakaudax.co.uk

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #10 on: 23 August, 2009, 06:03:37 pm »
Well done Mike. Centralised would be best, but this is a big help.

I should probably thank you here - I recently stole part of a route from your site to ride to my sister's place (But not as a DIY !).

M
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

mikewigley

Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #11 on: 23 August, 2009, 06:18:38 pm »
Well done Mike. Centralised would be best, but this is a big help.

One of the beauties of Audax - and a source of infuriation - is that we are just a collection of individuals all doing things our own way.  The online Calendar has the facility to link to all sorts of additional information that the organiser might want to put out, but there's no way this can be enforced.  The Events Secretary (and delegates) struggle to get the minimum of information in good time for some of the rides

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #12 on: 24 August, 2009, 09:05:20 am »
Hmmm...

The start place is in the calendar. I know it's not enough detail for Google in all cases, but that seems like the easiest way to semi-automate this.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #13 on: 24 August, 2009, 09:16:49 am »
I had a play with this a while ago but lost interest.

It's quite easy to get Google to "geocode" the start places - that is, turn an address into a lat-lon coordinate. It's very easy to get Google to display pins in the map for a list of lat-lon coordinates. The geocoding isn't 100% accurate though, more like 80% if you're lucky. As the calendar is available as an spreadsheet for members I managed to produce a half decent list of coordinates and display them on the map.

If you're interested, pm me your email address and you can have the code I wrote (though it's probably not great - it was my first attempt at javascript).

The google docs are quite helpful but I found a website that had lots of examples of just this sort of thing which was really useful.

Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #14 on: 26 August, 2009, 10:15:12 pm »
Having thought about this more, the gmap is only good for start points on calender events while the permanents map really needs the full route.

Will try Dave's code for the start points on calender rides.

I'll have a think on the permanents map...

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #15 on: 27 August, 2009, 02:47:26 pm »
Having thought about this more, the gmap is only good for start points on calender events while the permanents map really needs the full route.

Would having control locations rather than the whole route be acceptable? It seems it'd be more feasible.
Quote from: eck
Controls are mandatory, the route is optional

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #16 on: 27 August, 2009, 03:02:30 pm »
Having thought about this more, the gmap is only good for start points on calender events while the permanents map really needs the full route.

Would having control locations rather than the whole route be acceptable? It seems it'd be more feasible.
Quote from: eck
Controls are mandatory, the route is optional
Yes, I think controls would be plenty adequate.

However, the issue is that only the start can be ascertained from the calendar (and then it's never certain!). The controls would need input from the organiser, or someone in the know etc ... etc ...
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
  • Mrs Pingu's domestique
    • the Igloo
Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #17 on: 27 August, 2009, 03:08:45 pm »
The people who validate routes at AUK must have info on the controls. There'll be fewer of them than organisers, so it'd be potentially easier  ;)

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #18 on: 27 August, 2009, 03:16:58 pm »
The people who validate routes at AUK must have info on the controls. There'll be fewer of them than organisers, so it'd be potentially easier  ;)
Smart thinking! I can think of 2 hurdles:
- Organisers may need to give their permission.
- All the calendar controls are now in the database (or so the Event Planner suggests); are the perms in the same system? (I haven't organised one.)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

mtrike

  • aka action barbie
Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #19 on: 27 August, 2009, 08:20:38 pm »
Bikely has a lot of the audax rides on it and if you were to download all of these you could construct your own map, if you were to post it back then I think other rides could be added - possibly?

Re: Is there a single gmap with all of the calender and permanent rides on?
« Reply #20 on: 27 August, 2009, 08:24:40 pm »
But I thought you could only do one route at a time on Bikely?

Re: UPDATE: link to first draft. A single gmap all of the calender ride starts
« Reply #21 on: 12 September, 2009, 07:17:35 pm »
A terrible bout of food poisoning has given me the time to get round to this.

http://mapalist.com/Public/PublicMapViewerShell.aspx?mapid=63552

Every cloud...

Chris S

Re: UPDATE: link to first draft. A single gmap all of the calender ride starts
« Reply #22 on: 12 September, 2009, 07:19:18 pm »
A terrible bout of food poisoning has given me the time to get round to this.

http://mapalist.com/Public/PublicMapViewerShell.aspx?mapid=63552

Every cloud...

Nice map. But it smells vaguely of sick - why is that? ;)

Hope you are feeling better now!

UPDATE 2: more links. A single gmap all of the calender/perms
« Reply #23 on: 12 September, 2009, 09:28:39 pm »
I've also done a map of the controls for the Peak Audax Permanents. Each perm gets a different flag which makes this not completely unreadable.  http://mapalist.com/Public/PublicMapViewerShell.aspx?mapid=63567

However some of the positions are clearly wrong. The points are all based on this gdoc: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AhH383N3HlFrdFBNNXY0RlVIUUoyWmh2aTI4azNmVEE&hl=en I've tried to correct the obvious ones for example changed henbury  to  henbury, Macclesfield, Cheshire, but even some of those I'm not sure about. If anyone knows the routes could you please update the "address 1" column with an extra detail such as a county, then I can automatically update the map.

Re: UPDATE: link to first draft. A single gmap all of the calender ride starts
« Reply #24 on: 12 September, 2009, 11:10:32 pm »
My routes are all, apart from the newest, on googlemaps.

Yes, as someone guessed, the regional secretaries can see the controls. With some sort of disclaimer it might be possible to make these public. Quite a lot of work, I'd imagine.

In some ways it might be better to encourage organisers to post their own routes and let natural selection takes its course.