Author Topic: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?  (Read 5774 times)

Graeme Wyllie

Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« on: December 07, 2009, 05:48:25 pm »
As an organiser, I understand that I can ride my own calendar event before or after it takes place and submit a brevet card in the same way as for other riders.  I’ve been looking at the AUK Regs online for the official position and I’m either looking in the wrong place or there’s very little guidance. 

I ask specifically in relation to my BRM 400k due to take place on 8th May 2010.  Like many other AUKs I’m sure, I want to get a 400k BRM event in the bag fairly quickly next year and given the dearth of 400s in Alba next year, riding my own event would be ideal. 

Is there a time limit on when I have to ride my own the event?  I’ve heard a week either side but that’s maybe just anecdotal.  Does the fact that it’s BRM make a difference to this or anything else relating to the ride – I’m assuming that I’d have to get receipts n stuff like I was doing a DIY in order to prove that its demonstrably above board.   O:-)

My preference would be around 2 weeks before the calendar event but would probably only do so if I’m going to get the BRM 400.       

Re: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2009, 05:59:32 pm »
My preference would be around 2 weeks before the calendar event but would probably only do so if I’m going to get the BRM 400.       


2 weeks before is also my preference. That leaves one weekend to sort out possible last minute route changes if you spot major problems (roadworks, brocanteries etc.).

Martin

Re: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2009, 07:07:04 pm »
apparently 16 days before (and 8 after) is the new official line.

JohnHamilton

Re: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« Reply #3 on: December 07, 2009, 07:43:23 pm »
apparently 16 days before (and 8 after) is the new official line.

That's good. I was asking the Events Sec about this at the AGM. For a 1000k -7 days really was a bit too close as

a) I'll still be knackered when it comes round to organising.
b) If anything needs changing there simply isn' time to do it.

JayP

  • You must be joking
Re: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« Reply #4 on: December 07, 2009, 11:18:29 pm »
I still don’t understand this. What happens if the calendar ride you are checking has Info’ controls? You clearly can’t ‘prove your passage’ by answering info questions of your own devising! So there must be either a special dispensation of trust granted to organisers, or, the organiser must set up the event with DIY type ‘hard copy only’ controls. This produces the problem of having to find such controls (ie basically ATM’s, filling stations, shops with proper tills) so that;
•    they can all be visited with absolutely minimal deviation from the true calendar event route,
•   nominal distance requirements are still met.
Bear in mind that if your route checking chores involve marking up distances you will have to continually remove and refit your computer every time you deviate from the calendar event route to get your pesky DIY cash receipts or whatever. Also if you have set up your checking ride as a DIY then the issue of allowable days before and after is meaningless. 
       The main control on my Three Loops 200 recently decided to not open on Sundays anymore. So I chose a new venue (Ice Cream Farm nr Tattenhall) and changed the route appropriately. I set up my ride round  as a DIY and rode it last Friday.
I had to do distance mark up for four new route sections, I had to gather new info questions (three years worth) at each of the six calendar event info controls and I had to get nine DIY controls. I rarely cycled more than a couple of kilometers without having to stop, remove gloves and put on glasses.There has to be an easier way!!
I would really appreciate the Janet and John version of what's available to organisers and the by numbers version of how to do it.
Cheers ???


Re: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2009, 06:50:54 am »
I go round with a small voice recorder to dictate the instructions. then type up and then go round again with the voice recorder quoting the given distance as the marker for the instruction that needs changing, then do it all again and again, untill it is correct.

Cheers

Geoff
Only those that dare to go too far, know how far they can go.   T S Elliot

Re: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2009, 08:08:19 am »
The simple message to organisers is "We trust you."

Without that trust, AUK could not exist.

Keith
AUK Validation

CommuteTooFar

  • Inadequate Randonneur
Re: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2009, 12:43:44 pm »
Keefe.  I have always assumed that we were trusted as far as BR events go.  Are we trusted as far as BRM. 

As a controller I am much stricter with info compliance depending on a self defined hierarchy of events.  A 100k BP "Don't worry we all get lost sooner or later, you completed the route". A 200k BR "your description shows you did the distance so Ok this time".  400k BRM "I'm sorry you haven't proved you went to Tregaron." Also fast riders are shown far less tolerance than someone who has dragged themselves around with their last breath.



mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2009, 12:50:28 pm »
Keefe.  I have always assumed that we were trusted as far as BR events go.  Are we trusted as far as BRM. 

As a controller I am much stricter with info compliance depending on a self defined hierarchy of events.  A 100k BP "Don't worry we all get lost sooner or later, you completed the route". A 200k BR "your description shows you did the distance so Ok this time".  400k BRM "I'm sorry you haven't proved you went to Tregaron." Also fast riders are shown far less tolerance than someone who has dragged themselves around with their last breath.

... and then where would you rank Helpers riding early/late without the organiser?!?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Graeme Wyllie

Re: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2009, 01:40:37 pm »
Found this in the "officials" section of the audax uk website.

"Some Organisers and helpers ride their route the week before their event, updating the
route sheet and reminding commercial premises that the cyclists are coming.
AUK and ACP allow the Organiser and helpers to register this ride as part of the event and it is
an opportunity to thank helpers with a free entry and refreshments en route. There is no entry
form and riders are responsible for their own insurance. The rides must be on the same cards
and in the same Result Sheet as the event."

So did this change, officially, at the recent AGM. 

border-rider

Re: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2009, 01:44:39 pm »
The simple message to organisers is "We trust you."

Without that trust, AUK could not exist.


It has to be that way.  Perms are all about trust - you could just do them on a moped or in  a car (and spend hours in the cafes) if you really wanted.  There is nothing that can prevent that, or a host of other shenanigans.

I fully understand the reasons for auditable checks on calendar rides, especially as CtF says BRMs, of course.

Re: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« Reply #11 on: December 08, 2009, 03:01:32 pm »
As far as we are concerned, the dispensation is for organisers and their helpers on the day to ride the event from a week before to a week after the official date. These "helpers rides" sometimes take place without the presence of the organiser.

We would extend that to two weeks in respect of long (1000km+) events.

There is no difference between BR, BP and BRM rides in this respect.

The rules have not changed recently as far as we are aware. 

Keith


frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« Reply #12 on: December 08, 2009, 07:00:08 pm »
I believe they have (for BRM) - but can't remember where I saw it.

[edit] having spent a happy evening trawling the AUK regs and guidelines, I can't find any reference to this.  There is the 'organisers guideline' quoted above, but this is always subject to change, its a long way from being a 'rule'.

So the whole thing looks highly discretionary to me - as Keeeef said:
The simple message to organisers is "We trust you."
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

DanialW

Re: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2009, 08:05:08 am »
The handbook (p 47) states:

"Organisers and helpers may ride AUK & ACP validated events up to 15 days before or (for non-PBP qualifying events) 7 days after their event and submit brevet cards for validation with the event cards.”

Hat-tip to the AUK secretary for spotting this.

Graeme Wyllie

Re: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2009, 01:52:30 pm »
Thanks everybody.

3peaker

  • RRTY Mad 31 up
Re: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2011, 07:05:11 pm »
I have been searching the AUK website and the current Handbook for the guidance on this and and I must confess I am at a loss to find reference.  Danial's earlier Reference has probably been superceded.  I reckon a 3 week window 2 before/1 after (16days/8days to allow for a weekend ride) meets my approval.

We are now entering the busy cycling season so reassurance (confirmation of assumptions would be nice).  I have 3 events on 22 May, so 2 weeks before should see me riding all 3 and advising Controls/cafes. Also an opportunity to confirm the gps track that so many riders now seem to rely on.
SteveP

Promoting : Cheltenham Flyer 200, Cider with Rosie 150, Character Coln 100 21 Mar 20. (Suspended 16 Mar 20 on AUK advice)

Re: Organisers riding their own calendar event - when's allowed?
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2011, 07:13:21 pm »
Two weeks before, but not after. This is specifically to ensure that qualifier results are not delayed.