So, how hard is PBP?

[EdinburghFixed]

After chewing it around a little, there is no hard reason why I couldn't aim for PBP next year. Certainly I wanted to put in a full series this season anyway, so they may as well be BRM to leave my options open.

But, as a newbie to distance riding, it's not clear how I would tell whether I am up to the job. If you can manage an SR does it follow that you will be able to tackle the course (sleep deprivation notwithstanding?). The most I can garner is that PBP is "all about the climbing" and that if it's wet, you may get a few digestive issues!

So for those ancien(ne)s on the board, did you put much specific preparation into your previous PBPs and how hard was it?

[Martin]

the common wisdom is that if you can do a non flat UK 600 (like the BCM, 3 Coasts, Daylight, Cambrian KSW or of course El Supremo's) you can do PBP.

The climbing is almost never steep; just constantly rolling (10, 000m IIRC) with the only really constant flat bit just after the start and before the end.

It's also said that the key to finishing PBP is more about sleep management. I don't do non-sleep so probably went too hard to build up hours in the sleep bank which may have been my undoing (destroyed both my ankles which although I finished and really enjoyed most of it has put me off ever doing it again)

unless you are very lucky a UK SR is also likely to prepare you for the weather.

and as others have said food is paramount; whether you do little and often at the roadside controls and shops a big blow out at the main ones or a bit of both you have to keep the intake going throughout and hope your digestive system behaves to have a chance of finishing.

[MSeries]

If you are committed there is not reason why you shouldn't be able to prepare yourself for PBP in '11. I prepared from LEL in '05 in 6 months. Talk to people who've done it before, listen to them, try things out for yourself though, everyone is different.

It's not a hilly route, rolling is how I'd describe it. The feared climb, Roc Traverzal is not much of a problem, but it all depends on how well you climb really. The route suited me very well.

2007 was wet but I had no digestive issues. That depends on you and how you are and how well you manage your personal hygiene.

Preparation. I was in good shape in 2007. I did 87 points that year, most of them before PBP (I did 0 points after mid October). I went into the year after 10000 mile 2006 and did a hilly/windy 300 in March, 430km Easter Arrow then went on to complete 2 SR Series which included The Brian Chapman Memorial and The Three Coasts 600s. None of it was particularly difficult, some wet and windy weather but it didn't seem to affect me much, did my fastest 400, Owwer The Edge in the rain (<19hours). Steady build up, stay healthy and you'll should be fine. I just tried hard in the first part of 2007, rode with faster riders to improve my speed and it was beneficial, making the ride much easier that I though it would be and very enjoyable. I believe other people had a harder time than I did in '07

[Redlight]

I did my first ever 200+ ride and PBP in the same year and finished comfortably.  I'd say it's as much about when and what you eat as when and where you sleep.  I got the food badly wrong on the way out and ended up sitting in a daze at Carhaix unable to eat any pasta because my blood sugar had gotten too low.  I had to force myself to eat yoghurts and sweets to get enough glucose moving in my system to tackle proper carbs.  At least that's how it felt - I imagine the medical experts will tell me I'm talking bllx, but long distance riding is about listening to your body.

The main thing is to use the qualifiers top get your bike in shape - fit, luggage, lights etc - so that you are completely comfortable sitting on it for the best part of five days.  

On the climbing, as Martin said, it's more about persistence than difficulty.  I don't recall any difficult climbs but there seemed to be a lot of short up and down stretches, especially in Brittany.  

Also, being able to speak some French helps - not just at the controls but for chats along the road.  I rode one night section in the company of a bunch of riders from somewhere down near Bordeaux and the chat kept me going when otherwise I might just have drifted off the back.

[Charlotte]

Just to add a note of caution to comments like "If you can do a UK 600..."

I wasn't nearly prepared enough for PBP2007.  I'd been riding audaxes for a couple of years and I got myself round the BCM600 as my qualifier with four or so hours in hand and felt pretty confident at the time.  I was riding every weekend, either on audaxes or with my club.  I was strong and I thought I was fit.

PBP came as a huge shock to my system.  I was too heavy, not fit enough and I was probably carrying too much kit.  The weather (as I'm sure you know) was pretty bad, but it wasn't this that was the problem for me.  I found the sheer lack of sleep extraordinarily hard.

There's a hell of a lot more queuing to be done at the controls and perhaps I've had been faster I'd not have had this as bad, but as it was, I had difficulty in building up much of a time buffer.  This meant that I was getting by on a couple of hours sleep a night and after the first half of the ride, this started to really make life tough.

You can pretty much manage a 600 with just a brief nap or two, but ninety hours is too long to go without a proper REM sleep.  In order to get this, you need to be fast enough to both build up a time buffer and beat the queues to the sleeping facilities.  Perhaps if it is beautiful summer weather, you can avoid this by sleeping in hedges.  In '07, this wasn't happening.

So my main advice is, "get faster".  If at all possible, get lighter and get fitter, too, but unless you're Hummers, these are necessary steps in order to speed up.  I'm definitely not ruling out the possibility that I'll be back for another helping in 2011 (despite what I said 89h into PBP2007).  If I do; I'm taking my training a lot more seriously because if I ever do The French Ride again, I want to enjoy it.

I will also invest in a bike fit session because what didn't show up on a 600 did on a 1200...

[Ian H]

I was anxious before my first in 1995 until I'd got round a 1000 the month before. That was my third year of SRs. I got round in about 76 hrs and then rode home.

In 1999 I rode on fixed, suffered a bit of backache, and took 88 hrs (though I wasn't watching the clock, and didn't realise until the results were published). I don't think I did longer than a 600 otherwise that year.

In 2007 I was on gears again. Just an SR and and a few extra events in preparation. 77 hrs to get round, then rode home on the Friday. I ate all the wrong things - went to the 'French' counters for coffee and sandwichs jambons - to avoid the queues. Had about 4 hrs sleep at Loudeac (I think  it was) on the way back. I was actually a lot less fit than in 95, but experience made the difference.

My impression is that a lot of first timers expend an awful lot of nervous energy worrying about times and chasing wheels or whatever. My advice: just treat it as a holiday.

[Salvatore]

An SR doesn't guarantee success. Every one of the 1300 or so starters who were unsuccessful in 2007 had ridden a full SR.

There's only one way to find out if you can do it.

[Graeme Wyllie]

Hi EF

My tuppenceworth –

After a half hearted attempt at qualifying in 2003 my 2007 PBP specific training involved 

-   SRs is 2005 & 2006 and a double SR in 2007 (I’d definitely recommend two 400’s and 600’s in PBP year).
-   Doing a 600 away from home territory to get used to riding in unfamiliar roads (El Supremos in East Sussex)
-   A 400 and 600 in the space of four days (Thu – Sun) to get used to riding beyond 600k in roughly a similar time allocation for PBP
-   Keeping the miles going after qualification without overdoing it eg a 300k in early August
-   Overall, I made a conscious effort to get my average road speed up.  As well as training this involved the purchase of a lighter carbon bike.  I dont think getting faster is an issue for you though. 

I wouldn’t say that its all about the climbing, I found the terrain quite different from what I’m used to in Alba ie it wasn’t mountainous but there seemed to be very few occasions when it was flat.  It seemed to just go up and down again and again (OK sometimes it went up a lot before it went down) but I don’t recall needing particularly low gears other than around Loudeac on the way back.  I used a double chainring with IIRC a 34/28 bottom gear and would probably do the same again.   

How hard was it?  Aside from the rain in the first 250k being a PIA I found the major challenge to be tiredness (sleepy rather than jelly legs) and by about 1000k my arse was in tatters but by that stage I didn’t care as I was becoming euphoric about finishing and had time in hand.  I went through a really bad patch just after Loudeac on the way out (I think lots of riders packed here).  I was cold, tired, wet and getting slower and slower, but I knew that if I got indoors to warm up that I’d be fine.  At no stage did I contemplate giving up.   

Before setting off, I kept trying to convince myself that I "just" had to do a 36 hr 600k without pushing too hard, followed by another one in 54 hrs (half as much time again).   Which was just about exactly how it panned out.

I found it to be a wonderful experience and plan to be back there in 2011.

and to finish on a positive - the road surfaces are better than at home, the drivers don't want to mow you down and people come out of their houses to cheer you on.   Go for it - you'll feel 10 feet tall at the finish. 

[frankly frankie]

It's also said that the key to finishing PBP is more about sleep management.

It's also said that its mainly about bloody-mindedness.

[Charlotte]

Go for it - you'll feel 10 feet tall at the finish.  

I forgot that bit.  Finish PBP and you're part of a worldwide fraternity - that's something very special.

[Martin]

another phrase of wisdom from Auntie C that sticks with me about the ride is

"Pain is temporary; quitting is forever"

[vorsprung]

What Charlotte says about sleep is generally correct.  Doing the longer rides requires a bit more speed or tolerance for lack of sleep or something.  On a 600 if I get 2 hours sleep I might have a bad patch the following afternoon but basically I'm fine.  On PBP I think it was something like 2h+45m+2h sleep over 3 days and I was feeling like shit on a stick by the time it was over.  It was providential that there was good weather for the last day or I might well have been DNQ.  And I was in a fairly good state compared with a lot of riders

Also Charlottes comments about not taking piles of crap with you are worth bearing in mind.  
ISTR that Charlotte had a fruitcake with her just in case there wasn't much vegetarian nosh about.
I had rather too many clothes with me but that turned out to be a good idea given the tres mauvais weather

Y Lee G's comments about having a sore arse after 1000k is worth remembering.  You want the most comfortable bike available.  If there is a problem with hands/feet/arse, it will happen during 1200km.  I do not agree with Y Lee G's assertion that "the road surfaces are better than at home".  In general they are about the same.  There are good bits and bad bits.

As someone that lives in Devon I didn't think that PBP had much climbing.   Near Brest the terrain is somewhat like Devon.  La Roc was pretty easy to climb at a steady 20kph.   For the 3/4 of the course nearest to Paris there were plenty of flat bits.

What makes PBP easier than a UK 600 is that whatever state you are in, whatever the time of day or night, where ever you are in the field, there is always someone riding about your pace and often a small group to get a wheel with.

[EdinburghFixed]

At least if there is one thing I won't have to worry about, it is my derriere (being a deviant 'velo speciale' rider). On the other hand, I was sleepy enough on the overnighter to Longtown last September, and that was just 200k! 

Thanks for all the good advice. My career total is 8 points from 4x200k since I decided to try audax last autumn, so not saying much either way - the first step will have to be to get some proper distance this year. SWMBO seems quite tolerant so far, I think she enjoys getting me out of her hair!

One thing is clear, that everyone who goes to PBP seems to recommend it (even if they had to pack).

Time to get the diary out!

[mattc]

I came to a conclusion about PBP; there are three main variations between riders:
- how fast* you are, and
- how much sleep you really really need, and
- how happy you are to ride with less sleep than you really really need.

If you are fast enough, then you can get enough sleep for anyone's needs - many, but perhaps not most, are in this category.
Sleep requirements vary: from what I can tell, i need a bit less sleep than Charlotte (but not by much). But there were people riding on half as much and getting by.
There were also people riding on less and looking/sounding utterly utterly miserable. For some this was OK - it was part of the challenge. (But I really hate riding on too little sleep, and will certainly stop if I get close to falling asleep on the bike).

...
This meant that I was getting by on a couple of hours sleep a night and after the first half of the ride, this started to really make life tough.

You can pretty much manage a 600 with just a brief nap or two, but ninety hours is too long to go without a proper REM sleep.  In order to get this, you need to be fast enough to both build up a time buffer and

*Note that you can get faster (upto a point) with training/equipment, but you can't do much about your natural sleep requirements. All you can do is get to know them!

[Fidgetbuzz]

Input from this geriatric - 65 at PBP time.
I had not ridden a 400 or 600 until 2007 and only the flat Mildenhall 300s before that.
I can do endurance - 5 London Marathons in my 40's - but no history of cycling only taking it up in a modest way prior to 2007.
I had a very unpleasant B. from East 600 weather wise, finishing with less than an hour in hand, - and although now qualified - still wasnt sure that I wanted to attempt twice as far - but friends told me - you either attempt it in 2007 or you will never try for the first time in 2011. So i then went and did another 600 (Cambrian, which even had a bit of climbing thta this East Anglian is not used to )to see whether that helped me make up my mind - still wasnt wildly enthiusiastic although having 4 hours in hand this time. However better to have tried and failed - than spend the rest of your life wondering -- could I have done it.
I had also had several reasonably serious mountain climbing expeditions that had failed for one reason or another.
I really wanted PBP to prove that i could still put mind and body to a serious endurance challenge and be successful.

it was tough - but remember C's point " Quitting is for ever" - it never crossed my mind to abandon. Sleep and eating strategies are very important - I had a support tent just beyond Loudeac on way out - and just after L on way back - mind you i was nearly in total despair when I lost phone contact on way back and it was after midnight in pissing rain soaked thru to the skin- and I did not know where the tent was - but fall back was - OK there must be a church porch somewhere - do not quit.

So in my view if you are mentally resolved enough then provided your body can cope with a demanding physical challenge - then you will be successful - after all if I can - surely you can !

I am looking forward now to 2011.

[thing1]

Extremely useful info here guys.

Besides fitness & holding speed over the distance, I think the one thing I really need to do this year is sort out my saddle comfort for >400k rides. (Tandemists spend too much time sat, is part of the issue)

[urban_biker]

Yes. I think this thread is jolting me out of any complacency I may have felt after completing the BCM last year in fairly poor conditions. My view up to this point was that if I could do that then I could do anything - but its clear that I need to treat PBP with a bit more respect.

The big issue for me will be sleep and timing. I could do with getting faster so I can get more sleep. I have discovered that too little sleep can result in me getting depressed enough to want to pack, so I either need to get more sleep or I need to be more strongly motivated. (a bit of both might help )

Getting faster - Well there's a stone of weight I could probably lose which would help enormously I suspect, plus I need to be thinking about my finish times this year and next and pushing myself a bit harder.

[Weirdy Biker]

The 90hr need not be a hard ride, if you don't underestimate it, build up the experience to ride within your capabilities, are confident and have a bit of backbone.  This thread is, in my opinion, at risk of overstating the challenge of PBP compared to other rides.

PBP is a supported rides.  You have great facilities 100-200km apart, with the promise of hot food along the route.  Having done X-rated 1000km+ events, I can tell you this makes a big difference. 

Despite this, pPerhaps the main difficulty on PBP is sleeping facilities in the first 800km - sleeping on a hard floor isn't great particularly if you are wet and shivering yourself to sleep.  I was caught out by that in 2007 and so (in the unlikely event I do PBP again) I'd carry a sleeping mat and basic sleeping sack to improve matters despite the weight penalty.

During the build up, my advice to n00bs would be to do challenging rides that pose interesting questions of you.  Everyone who does PBP has done an SR and should be fit to ride.  So what can often make the difference is what personal experience you have to draw on.

[mattc]

The 90hr need not be a hard ride, if you don't underestimate it, build up the experience to ride within your capabilities, are confident and have a bit of backbone.  This thread is, in my opinion, at risk of overstating the challenge of PBP compared to other rides.

It's just a bike ride.

[vorsprung]

At least if there is one thing I won't have to worry about, it is my derriere (being a deviant 'velo speciale' rider).

I love to point out to 'bent riders that there was a high dropout rate for VS category on PBP 2005. 

That's all I have to say.  An instant flame war will erupt now.  My favourite excuses for why this should be are

* bents are nearer the ground so we get wetter
* a lot of the bents used in PBP were not special "long distance" bents
* PBP is so very hilly that it hurts our little legs
* Je suis le maire

See
  Pain on PBP or Long Brevets: A Survey for &quot;How About A Recumbent?&quot; -
  randon |
  Google Groups
  ( click on "expand all" )

[mattc]

At least if there is one thing I won't have to worry about, it is my derriere (being a deviant 'velo speciale' rider).

I love to point out to 'bent riders that there was a high dropout rate for VS category on PBP 2005. 

LEL09 had it's own lying-down stylee victim:

All ok here, short problems started at Washingborough.
Rubbing legs raw so at Coxwold I'd had enough, and didn't fancy another 1000km of it.

[Charlotte]

The only people who rode a fast PBP on 'bents were the sort of riders who'd be fast on pretty much anything.

The only way I'd even consider gonig over to the Dark Side for France is if I was on some kind of carbon composite ultralight flying machine.  Either that or if I was obscenely fit and looking to make it a little harder for myself.

[Salvatore]

At least if there is one thing I won't have to worry about, it is my derriere (being a deviant 'velo speciale' rider).

Despite what some would have you believe, recumbent riders are not immune to neck problems:

Be that as it may, my neck was sore. So for the remaining 400 km I had to keep one hand on the handlebar while the other supported my neck. This had one advantage: I could pull my head towards the middle of the bike with my right hand, to correct that lean to the left, but on the other hand it made it quite difficult – and painful – to change gears.

But don't let that put you off

I crossed the finish line Friday morning at 11:10 a.m. after 1,227 km in 86 hours and 10 minutes as a tired but very satisfied veteran of my first PBP.

suggests he'll be there again

Well worth reading
http://www.audax-club.dk/modules/ContentExpress/docs_repository/Jubilee-Randonneur.pdf

[vorsprung]

LEL09 had it's own lying-down stylee victim:

All ok here, short problems started at Washingborough.
Rubbing legs raw so at Coxwold I'd had enough, and didn't fancy another 1000km of it.

I think Rich probably had the best idea packing LEL at that stage

[simonp]

I got by with 2.5h sleep in the whole thing.  I did finally start to really notice the sleep dep after 4 nights of it but I had no dozy moments on the 3rd night when I didn't really sleep apart from 1h at Carhaix before I set off at midnight.

Of course, I would've got a decent amount of sleep if it wasn't for the minor mechanical on the ride to Loudeac on the way out that had me spending ages trying to fix it in the dark, then rigging up a three speed set-up, then being unable to ride in groups because I couldn't keep up on the descents, then waiting 2h for a fix at Loudeac.  That completely screwed up my sleep schedule and I ended up getting 20 minutes.  But tbh I was riding well considering I'd also had a 6 week training hiatus between qualifying and starting to get ready for the event.  Overall I was riding to a similar schedule to Charlotte & Phil, bumped into them between Carhaix and Brest a couple of times.

On the final day it caught up with me when I started to see double and had 15 minutes kip between Mortagne and Dreux and that was enough to see me to the finish.

For next time:

 - I think I am stronger, fitter and lighter than I was in August 07, even though it's January.  I'm intending to be
   stronger by PBP 2011 than I am now.
 - I will replace all the cables on the bike before the event (did this for LEL, and the BB, had no mechanicals).
 - I will try to be strict with how much time I waste at controls