Author Topic: What new tyres would you like to see?  (Read 29216 times)

KidJambo

  • Ex-sales manager for Michelin bicycle tyres
    • Michelin Tyres
Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #225 on: September 06, 2010, 08:44:12 am »
Referring back to previous discussions about Krylion Carbon 25s.....

I see CRC are no longer forecasting September, it's now END NOVEMBER

KJ ..... what's the story?   Pretty sure I will need to buy something before November, and PR3 are not really an option for me in the winter.



Not wishing to make excuses (political uprisings in Bangkok that stopped our production for a few weeks, boats with containers of our tyres/tubes on catching fire, strikes in French ports etc) but we are playing "catch-up" on stock orders. Priority of production goes to 23C and so it keeps getting put back. As I speak the information is that some stock is trickling through but we won't clear the back orders until the end of next month at the earliest so delivery mid/late november is the best we can confirm at present - not good I'm afraid - especially as I run these and can't get any either!
No longer responsible for bicycle tyres at Michelin - although I know the guy who is - but will stick around as I am a keen cyclist first and foremost...with a Michelin-biased understanding of tyres!

KidJambo

  • Ex-sales manager for Michelin bicycle tyres
    • Michelin Tyres
Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #226 on: September 06, 2010, 08:49:06 am »
i would be interested in a GOOD 406 touring tyre and i know a number of recumbent and folder cycle riders who would benefit from such a tyre  :). at the moment i am using big apple and supreme by schwalbe   . a lot of recumbent riders race there machines so how about one of your race tires in 406. for touring a good tread that is as resistant to cuts as much as possible with a medium thickness sidewall  to keep the weight as low as possible without sacrificing strength  :thumbsup:.

Request noted!  :thumbsup:
No longer responsible for bicycle tyres at Michelin - although I know the guy who is - but will stick around as I am a keen cyclist first and foremost...with a Michelin-biased understanding of tyres!

Biggsy

  • A bodge too far
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Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #227 on: September 06, 2010, 12:23:10 pm »
Same for 349 for the Brompton, please.
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Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #228 on: September 06, 2010, 03:13:08 pm »
Same for 349 for the Brompton, please.

That's a noice idea - a Krylion Carbon for the Brommie would be ace.  Probably quite a decent market for them too.

KidJambo

  • Ex-sales manager for Michelin bicycle tyres
    • Michelin Tyres
Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #229 on: September 06, 2010, 03:22:55 pm »
Same for 349 for the Brompton, please.

That's a noice idea - a Krylion Carbon for the Brommie would be ace.  Probably quite a decent market for them too.

What would you envisage is a "decent" size for a market??
No longer responsible for bicycle tyres at Michelin - although I know the guy who is - but will stick around as I am a keen cyclist first and foremost...with a Michelin-biased understanding of tyres!

Biggsy

  • A bodge too far
  • Twit @iceblinker
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Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #230 on: September 06, 2010, 03:36:04 pm »
I dunno, but it's a decent enough size market for Schwalbe.  You could compete with their Kojak, Marathon Plus and something in between.
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KidJambo

  • Ex-sales manager for Michelin bicycle tyres
    • Michelin Tyres
Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #231 on: September 06, 2010, 03:38:23 pm »
I dunno, but it's a decent enough size market for Schwalbe.  You could compete with their Kojak, Marathon Plus and something in between.

I think the main issue on market size would be that it appears to be very much a UK market and not sure what demand there is for such creatures in other key markets which is what would influence us in a decision to venture into doing something like this I'm afraid!
No longer responsible for bicycle tyres at Michelin - although I know the guy who is - but will stick around as I am a keen cyclist first and foremost...with a Michelin-biased understanding of tyres!

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #232 on: September 06, 2010, 03:39:53 pm »
Brommie riders tend to be from the higher income bands.

Just sayin'...
Getting there...

Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #233 on: September 06, 2010, 03:50:33 pm »
I dunno, but it's a decent enough size market for Schwalbe.  You could compete with their Kojak, Marathon Plus and something in between.

I think the main issue on market size would be that it appears to be very much a UK market and not sure what demand there is for such creatures in other key markets which is what would influence us in a decision to venture into doing something like this I'm afraid!

Fair enough.  I think they're churning out over 20,000 a year at present, much helped by the Cycle to work schemes, and a lot of them get used regularly in my experience.  There must be an installed base of 100,000 ish - heavily skewed to the UK for sure, and far, far more A/B/C1 than D/E.  The risk is that the current Brompton badged tyres are actually quite good, and you can also get a Schwalbe lighter tyre.  I've no idea how they sell.  I'd have thought that the fairly conservative demographic would go hammer and tongues for a "known" brand like Michelin though, as a premium option.  

Biggsy

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Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #234 on: September 06, 2010, 04:01:42 pm »
Brompton export as well as sell in the UK.  22,000 Bromptoms are made each year, and I excpect there's several hundred thousand in regular use - with owners likely to be interested in new models of tyres as the current choice for them is quite small.

It's a big enough market for Schwalbe.  It's disappointing if it's too small for Michelin.
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Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #235 on: September 06, 2010, 04:02:45 pm »
If the riders are wealthy, aren't they likely to have their bikes maintained by a dealer, in which case the dealer will fit whatever they have to hand. The exception being people who race them, and there's literally several of them.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #236 on: September 06, 2010, 04:05:03 pm »
Well, if Michelin isn't as good as Schwalbe, Kid... ;)
Getting there...

Biggsy

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Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #237 on: September 06, 2010, 04:08:52 pm »
ps. The Brompton market may be relatively small, but relatively little advertising would be needed too, as word of new prouducts is loudly spread amoungst the community by users, or deals could be done direct with the manufacturer, like it seems Schwalbe has done.
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Biggsy

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Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #238 on: September 06, 2010, 04:12:46 pm »
If the riders are wealthy, aren't they likely to have their bikes maintained by a dealer, in which case the dealer will fit whatever they have to hand. The exception being people who race them, and there's literally several of them.

The dealer may have a preference for one tyre over another if it's more satisfying for the customer or if there's more profit in it for them.  Michelin can compete on those terms, if it wishes, or do a deal with Brompton so that dealers are automatically supplied with spare tyres from Michelin.
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KidJambo

  • Ex-sales manager for Michelin bicycle tyres
    • Michelin Tyres
Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #239 on: September 07, 2010, 07:43:10 am »
I am not saying its not a market we would be interested in entering - just requires some research first thats all.

Firstly we have to look at the annual consumption of tyres globally (and I suspect that 50%+ is in the UK), who else has an offer in the market, what products they offer and thus what level of product we would be wanting to pitch at the market, what market share could we realistically expect to attain given this and what margin we could realisitically expect to attain given all this. Then we need to weigh this up against the increase in capacity in the factory and the cost of R&D and new equipment (moulds etc) for a brand new product and if the former is greater than the later then its something we might look into but if it isn't then it would be shelved immediately - its simple economics to be honest. There are a number of what I would call niche markets that we are present in and are only in because we have a good market share and are already involved in the activity whereas if we came to look at starting in the market today we almost certainly wouldn't bother.

I do seriously appreciate all the feedback though. My initial thought on this is that Schwalbe and private label tyres probably have the market sewn up - unless we could make a tyre that was better than the Schwalbe and cheaper! If we could get OE on the bikes then it might be more worthwhile - can anyone tell me what they come fitted with normally?
No longer responsible for bicycle tyres at Michelin - although I know the guy who is - but will stick around as I am a keen cyclist first and foremost...with a Michelin-biased understanding of tyres!

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #240 on: September 07, 2010, 08:10:10 am »
Brompton are producing around 25,000 bikes/units this year and are planning on 25% annual growth for the next five years.  Two thirds of their production is exported, mostly to Germany and the Netherlands.

Stock tyres are Brompton-labelled Cheng Shin with Schwalbe Kojak or Marathon as alternatives.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

KidJambo

  • Ex-sales manager for Michelin bicycle tyres
    • Michelin Tyres
Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #241 on: September 07, 2010, 08:18:48 am »
Brompton are producing around 25,000 bikes/units a year this year and are planning on 25% annual growth for the next five years.  Two thirds of their production is exported, mostly to Germany and the Netherlands.

Stock tyres are Brompton-labelled Cheng Shin with Schwalbe Kojak or Marathon as alternatives.

Thank you for the information. I can say from the start that we cannot compete with Cheng Shin on OE so thats probably out for a start and only leaves the after market for us to go at. If we make a general assumption that a lot of these bikes are used and well maintained then maybe the global market is 100,000 tyres per annum. There are two Kojak offers from Schwalbe which, for next year, will have a public price of €26 or €36 which I guess means it would be our City tyre that we would look at offering. I will put all of this information onto a file for our R&D team in central along with some stuff off their website and see what they think!
No longer responsible for bicycle tyres at Michelin - although I know the guy who is - but will stick around as I am a keen cyclist first and foremost...with a Michelin-biased understanding of tyres!

Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #242 on: September 24, 2010, 12:22:16 pm »
25mm Krylions now in stock @ CRC

Referring back to previous discussions about Krylion Carbon 25s.....

I see CRC are no longer forecasting September, it's now END NOVEMBER

KJ ..... what's the story?   Pretty sure I will need to buy something before November, and PR3 are not really an option for me in the winter.



KidJambo

  • Ex-sales manager for Michelin bicycle tyres
    • Michelin Tyres
Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #243 on: September 27, 2010, 11:09:07 am »
25mm Krylions now in stock @ CRC

Referring back to previous discussions about Krylion Carbon 25s.....

I see CRC are no longer forecasting September, it's now END NOVEMBER

KJ ..... what's the story?   Pretty sure I will need to buy something before November, and PR3 are not really an option for me in the winter.




Most up-to-date information I have is that the first production on this tyre is this week so will arrive in France around the last week of October (into dealers first/second week of November) but this is only enough to clear around 60% of the current back order so I cannot guarantee if CRC will be getting their back-orders fulfilled from this first shipment
No longer responsible for bicycle tyres at Michelin - although I know the guy who is - but will stick around as I am a keen cyclist first and foremost...with a Michelin-biased understanding of tyres!

The Mechanic

Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #244 on: September 27, 2010, 11:39:03 am »
I ordered some on Saturday.  Given KJ's comments in the above post, I'll wait and see if they turn up.

Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #245 on: September 27, 2010, 12:13:59 pm »
Ordered mine on Thursday evening soon after receiving CRC stock alert - they arrived this morning so you should get yours soonish.

The Mechanic

Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #246 on: September 27, 2010, 03:52:26 pm »
Yep!  Just got and email from CRC to say that mine have been shipped.  Yippee!

Wonder where they got them from :-X

KidJambo

  • Ex-sales manager for Michelin bicycle tyres
    • Michelin Tyres
Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #247 on: September 27, 2010, 04:45:09 pm »
Yep!  Just got and email from CRC to say that mine have been shipped.  Yippee!

Wonder where they got them from :-X

It looks like we shipped a VERY small quantity last week - the shipment I was discussing was the main production to clear half of the current sizeable back-order - don't fret, they are genuine and not cheap Chinese fakes! LOL
No longer responsible for bicycle tyres at Michelin - although I know the guy who is - but will stick around as I am a keen cyclist first and foremost...with a Michelin-biased understanding of tyres!

Cudzoziemiec

  • Eating all the pies and drinking all the tea.
Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #248 on: September 27, 2010, 05:48:34 pm »
I know you're joking, but are fake tyres a problem? I guess anything with a reputable brand name is likely to get faked at some point.
Days become simply the spaces between dreams, spaces between the shifting floors of time...

KidJambo

  • Ex-sales manager for Michelin bicycle tyres
    • Michelin Tyres
Re: What new tyres would you like to see?
« Reply #249 on: September 27, 2010, 07:19:12 pm »
I know you're joking, but are fake tyres a problem? I guess anything with a reputable brand name is likely to get faked at some point.

As far as I am aware, fake cycle tyres are not an issue as yet - nobody is gonna copy a £30 Pro3 Race given how much they would take to make - although they obviously do copy certain popular tread sculptures on MTB tyres and use similar nakes but easy to tell as the quality is shit and the rubber is hard as rock! :s
No longer responsible for bicycle tyres at Michelin - although I know the guy who is - but will stick around as I am a keen cyclist first and foremost...with a Michelin-biased understanding of tyres!