Author Topic: making a gpx on the fly  (Read 4631 times)

Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2010, 12:12:25 am »
i shall experiment with the track & route on Tuesday, got my GPS loaded for a different ride on Sunday at present.

Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2010, 12:15:07 am »
However you do it, the principle is a good one - a track (a fixed "breadcrumb trail") displaying alongside a route (with alerts for turns etc etc, but which can go a bit awry on the day if the device decides to calculate its own version of what you fed it with).

I await Manotea's comments on this combined route + track single gdb with interest.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2010, 12:59:30 am »
However you do it, the principle is a good one - a track (a fixed "breadcrumb trail") displaying alongside a route (with alerts for turns etc etc, but which can go a bit awry on the day if the device decides to calculate its own version of what you fed it with).

I await Manotea's comments on this combined route + track single gdb with interest.

Thats the ticket, as per my post upthread.

Assuming you use wingdb3 to generate the track (written to the output .gdb), you can simply select and copy the track from the output .gdb then paste the track into the input .gdb containing the route under the track tab as a complete file/object.

Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2010, 06:07:23 am »
Or to put it another way: what's needed is a programme that will look at the path followed by a Route generated by a series of waypoints joined by "follow road" software and automatically lay a trail of breadcrumbs (trackpoints) at close intervals allong that path, just as a GPS unit does when you actually ride the course, enabling you to save a Track rather than a Route file.
That's just what WinGDB3 does. Note: this feature only works on GDB files generated by Mapsource, not GPX files. I think the GDB file actually contains the routing data as a series of hidden waypoints, as well as the waypoints / viapoints you manually place.

I just tested this out:
Plot a route in Mapsource, using autorouting, only placing 3 waypoints.
Save as a GDB file.
Run WinGDB3, choose option 11, "convert routes to tracks with all route points"
Then open the generated file in Mapsource, it now contains a track with 588 trackpoints, which follows the original Mapsource route.
Aha! In that case I am most pleased to be proved wrong. I shall try this a.s.a.p. Molto thanks Fuaran.

and if you like, you can then copy and paste the track into your original GDB so you can load a route and track into the GPS. If you set the route colour to white it will highlight the track. Then you can ride round as if you were following the track whilst benefiting from the extra junction 'pop-ups' provided by the route secure in the knowledge that if the GPS autorouting does try and take you off-track it will be immediately obvious. Sorted.
This seems a great idea too; although I do wonder how much extra power draw this would take and the consequent effect on battery life?

Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2010, 10:28:11 am »
This seems a great idea too; although I do wonder how much extra power draw this would take and the consequent effect on battery life?

Routing is part and parcel of what the device is used for so it'll not have much if any impact on battery life, compared with using the backlight.

Assuming you use wingdb3 to generate the track (written to the output .gdb), you can simply select and copy the track from the output .gdb then paste the track into the input .gdb containing the route under the track tab as a complete file/object

Can you run that by me again? Let's say I have created a route in Mapsource. I then use wingdb3 to convert it to a track (option 5??). Er... then what? Talk me through it.

Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2010, 10:30:20 am »
If you have a track though, the need for auto routing is somewhat diminished. Auto routing is for when you don't know how to get somewhere, the device tells you.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2010, 10:46:32 am »
This seems a great idea too; although I do wonder how much extra power draw this would take and the consequent effect on battery life?

Routing is part and parcel of what the device is used for so it'll not have much if any impact on battery life, compared with using the backlight.

Assuming you use wingdb3 to generate the track (written to the output .gdb), you can simply select and copy the track from the output .gdb then paste the track into the input .gdb containing the route under the track tab as a complete file/object

Can you run that by me again? Let's say I have created a route in Mapsource. I then use wingdb3 to convert it to a track (option 5??). Er... then what? Talk me through it.

Open the output gdb, select the tracks tab, selct the track, rightclick+copy, open the input gdb with the route, select the tracks tab, right click+paste. Standard cut'n'paste.

n.b., if the route contains any off road-sections then this will be echoed in the track, at which point you may need to edit/adjust the track manually (go into track properties and delete the 'detour' trackpoints) at which point the track will show the direct line between the start/end of the off road section, at least pointing the way. Most of the time these detours are fairly short and so this approach is perfectly adequate.

If I'm feeling keen I create a route segment in direct route mode with route points at each turn, convert it to a track and then edit it to the track.

More typically I mark the start/end of the off road section with different colored map-flags and work it out on the day, then when I get home clean I'll clean up the track (edit the track to remove all extraneous ditherings) for use next time round.

Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2010, 10:49:40 am »
Got it, I think: 2 instances of Mapsource needed then?

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2010, 11:13:28 am »
Sort of. WINGDB3 creates the output gdb if it doesnt exist (in which case you need to name the output file as nnn.gdb, not just nnn because that is what you will get and windze will not know its a gdb file.

Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #34 on: June 11, 2010, 11:32:23 am »
you can check the option in wingdb3 to open MapSource and send the output there with no intermediate file. (pipe it to MapSource in *NIX speak)

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #35 on: June 11, 2010, 11:42:11 am »
you can check the option in wingdb3 to open MapSource and send the output there with no intermediate file. (pipe it to MapSource in *NIX speak)

Danger Will Robinson!

If you are refering to the File/Mapsource checkbox at top LHS of the WINGDB3 dialogue, when taking opt5 then yes this writes the output tracks to the input file but deletes the associated input routes.

Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #36 on: June 11, 2010, 11:45:11 am »
Only on option 5 ? I don't have an option 5, after 4 it's 11. But htere is also a "Save original routes" check box. NB I have not used all the options and as I admitted last night not used tracks much at all.

EDIT: I'd didn't seem to overwrite anything last night when I generated a track from a route, noe when I generated a full route from a calculated one. I can't be arsed to test it again now.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #37 on: June 11, 2010, 11:58:09 am »
I haven't spotted the retain original routes checkbox. OTOH I've been running V3.2 for a while.  I see the current version is 3.5 with a 3.55 beta available. I've downloaded the 3.55 beta. It contains a lot more functionality including support for edge/foreunner training centre stuff. Shame in a way because I quite enjoyed the ease of use of 3.2 and now I'm going to have to read the documentation. Or not!

Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #38 on: June 11, 2010, 12:01:03 pm »
I am using 3.50, downloaded last night. I have not seen any documents !!

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2010, 12:20:52 pm »
3.55 has a help button that links to a 9 page doc.

3.55 allows reading/writing to gdb files on the clipboard. Looks like the authors preferred way of dealing with the staging file issue. (copy route/track to clipboard, process then paste back).

Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2010, 02:16:02 pm »
Assuming you use wingdb3 to generate the track (written to the output .gdb), you can simply select and copy the track from the output .gdb then paste the track into the input .gdb containing the route under the track tab as a complete file/object

Can you run that by me again? Let's say I have created a route in Mapsource. I then use wingdb3 to convert it to a track (option 5??). Er... then what? Talk me through it.
[/quote]

I'm in the process of learning this "as we speak". It might be helpful to have a look at this thread:
Sending a track to Vista HCx

Basically, I think the answer is that having created a Route in Mapsource you then use WinGDB3 to make another file from it, in the form of a Track (I think it's Option 11) which you save separately, not overwriting your original Route file, as another .gdb file.

You then have the option of (a) loading the Route and loading the Track .gdb files separately into your GPS unit; or (b) copying the Track from one .gdb file into the MapSource file containing your Route (cut/copy'n'paste across onto the Track tab), saving the expanded file and then uploading both Route and Track to your GPS unit in one operation.

EDIT: I posted this before I caught up with the intermediate postings - doh! Well beaten to the punch!

Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2010, 02:30:15 pm »
Thanks for that. I'm clear on the basic steps for (b) but I am unclear, among other things, on which of the WinGDB route > track options 11 - 15 to select.

Another thing I am unsure of is this: does the pasting operation (c+p a track into a Mapsource instance that already contains the route) produce a single file that when saved contains both the track and the route?

And, once the combined gdb is sent to the device, do you end up with a separate route and track on the device, or a sort of merged route that displays a track?

Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2010, 02:52:53 pm »
Thanks for that. I'm clear on the basic steps for (b) but I am unclear, among other things, on which of the WinGDB route > track options 11 - 15 to select.
I'm not really fully qualified to answer this since I just installed WinGDB3 this morning and have done it only once, but it worked perfectly when I used Option 11. The 101km Route I first created and saved as a .gdb file and which I selected for the "Input file" field in WinGDB was then copied as [Output file with different name as edited by me] which contained three Tracks, each of about 386 points because I'd also selected "Split and filter to max 500 points" (at foot of dialog - I am using WinGDB3 Version 3.55 Beta) Had I not selected the Split and Filter option it woud have generated a single Track of some 1158 trackpoints. My GPS won't take Tracks of more than 500 trackpoints.

Another thing I am unsure of is this: does the pasting operation (c+p a track into a Mapsource instance that already contains the route) produce a single file that when saved contains both the track and the route?
Yes, exactly that.

And, once the combined gdb is sent to the device, do you end up with a separate route and track on the device, or a sort of merged route that displays a track?
You get a Route in your Routes list and a Track (or in my case, three Tracks) in your Tracks list. You can then choose to select the Track(s) and display it/them on the map and/or opt to "Follow/navigate" the Route. If you do both and select a contrasting colour for the Track, the Route will "highlight" it with (in my case) a magenta line, at least so long as the unit thinks the best course is the same as the Track, which it doesn't always do!

I confess I haven't done this yet, as I've learnt only this morning how to do it! But I've played around with it just now and it looks as though it works. The advantage is that the course shows up really well and as a previous poster has pointed out, you get the benefit of the turn-by-turn instructions as reminders together with the comfort of being able to check that the autorouting function is delivering the exact path you want.

Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #43 on: June 11, 2010, 07:41:10 pm »


Another thing I am unsure of is this: does the pasting operation (c+p a track into a Mapsource instance that already contains the route) produce a single file that when saved contains both the track and the route?


It can also contain any custom waypoints you've created for your route and reference to any maps it needs if you selected them before you saved. Everything that the GPS needs. Not sure if it's all saved in a .gpx though, but gdb it is.

Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #44 on: June 11, 2010, 11:42:29 pm »
After all this... I've mislaid my gps so tomorrow I will be following a routesheet for the first time in a long time. Actually, I suspect I will be following Chris S (if I can keep up!).

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #45 on: June 12, 2010, 12:08:30 pm »
If you use Mapsource, WinGDB3 is an essential extra tool, IMO.  Adds loads of stuff that should be in Mapsource but isn't.
So, in summary, that workflow for combining Route and Track is:

Plot a route in Mapsource, using autorouting, only placing 3 waypoints.
Save as a GDB file.
Run WinGDB3, choose option 11, "convert routes to tracks with all route points"
Then open the generated file in Mapsource, it now contains a track with 588 trackpoints, which follows the original Mapsource route.

(Following the above, you will now automatically have two instances of Mapsource open, one showing the Route and the other the matching Track).
Select the Track (highlight) and copy it.
Move to the other instance of Mapsource and Paste.
Select the Track and in Properties, name it, colour it green and downsample it to <=500 points.
Save the combined file, and transfer it to the GPS.

In the GPS, if it supports Routeing colour, set the colour to white (or yellow, which makes the route mostly 'invisible').  Of the Etrexes, only the HCx models can do this, on the others you're stuck with magenta.  (New versions of Mapsource also support Route colouring, but it doesn't transfer to the GPS)
Check the Track is set to 'show on map'.  Select the Route and choose 'Navigate'.
Some screenshots here
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

Martin

Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #46 on: June 12, 2010, 11:24:53 pm »
I do wonder how much extra power draw this would take and the consequent effect on battery life?

I've run my Vista HcX mostly on a couple of pairs of 2800mAh NiMh for the last year or so,

I did find that when I switched off "off route recalculation" and just had the route there to guide myself back to made a big difference in the life of the batteries. Turning off the backlight (which turns on around each prompted turn) in the day helps too.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #47 on: June 13, 2010, 09:53:54 am »
'Off-route recalculation' is extremely dicey anyway - it doesn't always recalculate the way you might expect, in some circumstances it just calculates a route to your destination regardless of any intermediate points - this is fine for a 'go to' but not very helpful if you're trying to follow a set route.
I advise turning the feature off, or at least setting it to 'prompted', and if you need to get back to a route and can't just do it by eye, re-load it from scratch.

I don't think the Route/Track usage Manotea described has any significant impact on battery runtime, BTW.
(for ref - Vista Cx current drain in normal usage, about 65mA, compass on, add about 10mA, backlight 50%, add about 40mA)
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

Re: making a gpx on the fly
« Reply #48 on: June 16, 2010, 02:21:58 pm »
So, in summary, that workflow for combining Route and Track is:

Just used this on a little route: all works well  :) It is a pity the post above could not be placed in some sort of GPS sticky or FAQ. There's a wealth of similarly useful info hidden among threads hither and thither; these could be added to the FAQ as they are rediscovered.