Author Topic: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning  (Read 6740 times)

DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« on: August 10, 2010, 10:43:08 am »
Now that the DIY/GPS with AAA points system is approved I'd like to start calculating my DIY routes' elevation profiles before I ride them. I've used the www.bikely.com site and although this is useful it becomes cumbersome to use particularly when modifying a route.

What other online options are available and how usable are they ?
How do the elevation reports compare with those recorded by a GPS unit ?

I'd rather not go down the commercial software package route because these inevitably require Microsoft Windows/Apple operating systems.

Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2010, 11:26:00 am »
This looks quite promising, though half-baked at present. (Try the Grand Canyon link!)
It's not dark yet but it's getting there.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2010, 11:29:49 am »
Doesn't work at all nr my house!
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles


Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2010, 12:29:23 pm »
Now that the DIY/GPS with AAA points system is approved I'd like to start calculating my DIY routes' elevation profiles before I ride them. I've used the www.bikely.com site and although this is useful it becomes cumbersome to use particularly when modifying a route.

I find the drag-edit fairly straightforwards on bikehike, as long as you are keeping your start and finish points the same.  I find it by far the easiest and fastest sites to use, and if all else fails it is quite easy to replot a route.... just dont use IE with it.

Weirdy Biker

Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #5 on: August 10, 2010, 01:00:40 pm »
+1 for bikehike.  This (plus Autoroute for control distance checking) does the job and is all I use (for more than a dozen perms as well as route planning for calendar events and organised perms).

The reason I like it is it's simplicity.  It's a doddle to set up and (more importantly) to modify routes.  It also has a decent placename search facility.  The dual screen with OS maps coupled with "satellite view" is also handy when doing closer inspection of whether roads are passable on bikes.

Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2010, 01:09:15 pm »
Indeed.  If you rely on googlemaps for 'minor roads' you will find that occasionally they are footpaths, or they don't even exist (as happened to me when googlemaps tried to get me to ride through somebody's house in Fairford.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2010, 01:47:51 pm »
+1 for bikehike. 
<...>

The reason I like it is it's simplicity.  It's a doddle to set up and (more importantly) to modify routes.  It also has a decent placename search facility.  The dual screen with OS maps coupled with "satellite view" is also handy when doing closer inspection of whether roads are passable on bikes.
I thought bikehike had binned the Save Route database - do you export to a local GPX, then re-import to make any future changes?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Weirdy Biker

Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #8 on: August 10, 2010, 01:57:50 pm »
+1 for bikehike. 
<...>

The reason I like it is it's simplicity.  It's a doddle to set up and (more importantly) to modify routes.  It also has a decent placename search facility.  The dual screen with OS maps coupled with "satellite view" is also handy when doing closer inspection of whether roads are passable on bikes.
I thought bikehike had binned the Save Route database - do you export to a local GPX, then re-import to make any future changes?

Oh, I have to be honest and say that I persist until I get it just so.  So no need to save.  I then download it a local GPX and more or less immediately onto my GPS.  Works for me but might not work for everyone.

Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #9 on: August 10, 2010, 02:06:07 pm »
You can save as a gpx and then re-upload

Bianchi Boy

  • Cycling is my doctor
  • Is it possible for a ride to be too long?
    • Reading Cycling Club
Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2010, 07:16:52 am »
What about
      
      Medium Club run to Andover by bianchiboyuk at Garmin Connect - Details  

On the Garmin site you can enable elevation correction (don't know how it works)
Set a fire for a man and he will be warm for a day, set a man on fire and he is warm for the rest of his life.

Martin

Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2010, 10:36:31 am »
if anyone wants to check their virtual gpx for AAA they can email it to me and I can use the official AUK app;

Bikely is often much lower than the official figure

αdαmsκι

  • Twitter @Dr_AAY Instagram @ucfaaay Strava @ucfaaay
  • Look haggard. It sells.
Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2010, 11:15:45 am »
Sorry if this has already been answered somewhere else.

Does a similar system apply to DIYs as calendar events whereby it's possible to get AAA points for a >100 km section of a ride? I've got a DIY400 in the pipeline that has less than 5,000 m of climbing (according to bikehike), but the first 100 km (over Whinlatter and Hartside passes) and the last 100 km (over Corney Fell and Dunmail Raise) are worthy, according to bikehike.

What on earth am I doing here on this beautiful day?! This is the only life I've got!!

https://tyredandhungry.wordpress.com/

DanialW

Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #13 on: August 11, 2010, 01:12:53 pm »
Sorry if this has already been answered somewhere else.

Does a similar system apply to DIYs as calendar events whereby it's possible to get AAA points for a >100 km section of a ride? I've got a DIY400 in the pipeline that has less than 5,000 m of climbing (according to bikehike), but the first 100 km (over Whinlatter and Hartside passes) and the last 100 km (over Corney Fell and Dunmail Raise) are worthy, according to bikehike.

Yes it does, and we can work it out for you fairly easily now.

Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2010, 06:50:28 pm »
if anyone wants to check their virtual gpx for AAA they can email it to me and I can use the official AUK app;

Bikely is often much lower than the official figure

This is an interesting statement. I had wondered whether the AAA points associated with a DIY GPS ride were based on the climbing figure reported by the GPS device or by an 'official' assessment of the actual route ridden. It seems like the latter from what you state above.

What is the official application ?

Martin

Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2010, 11:31:05 pm »
if anyone wants to check their virtual gpx for AAA they can email it to me and I can use the official AUK app;

Bikely is often much lower than the official figure

This is an interesting statement. I had wondered whether the AAA points associated with a DIY GPS ride were based on the climbing figure reported by the GPS device or by an 'official' assessment of the actual route ridden. It seems like the latter from what you state above.

What is the official application ?


the official app is something we DIY orgs use to measure gpx files for validation; I don't know where it gets its elevation data from; presumably not from a device as some don't record this.

TOBY

  • hello
Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2010, 11:36:31 pm »
if anyone wants to check their virtual gpx for AAA they can email it to me and I can use the official AUK app;

Bikely is often much lower than the official figure

This is an interesting statement. I had wondered whether the AAA points associated with a DIY GPS ride were based on the climbing figure reported by the GPS device or by an 'official' assessment of the actual route ridden. It seems like the latter from what you state above.

What is the official application ?


the official app is something we DIY orgs use to measure gpx files for validation; I don't know where it gets its elevation data from; presumably not from a device as some don't record this.

Working out Climbing

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2010, 12:36:05 am »
I've looked at that link (and the DIY/AAA trial thread), and it appears you need to invest in one of the PC-based mapping packages to estimate what climbing figure AUK will assign to your DIY.

You could probably use bikely/bikehike etc and apply some adjustment factor*, but it would be very error-prone.

*Based on reports from other threads passim
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Martin

Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #18 on: August 13, 2010, 09:30:29 am »
the reason Bikely takes ages to unpick if you go wrong is that it drops a "breadcrumb trail" of points along the track unlike Mapsource viamichelin etc which just show the on road route between points. You need this many points to be able to calculate AAA using the app. If you enter a Bikely gpx it will show the distance and AAA but will not award any points because the time data is missing.

TOBY

  • hello
Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #19 on: August 13, 2010, 09:34:20 am »
Sorry it was a lzy reply to these bolded bits:

This is an interesting statement. I had wondered whether the AAA points associated with a DIY GPS ride were based on the climbing figure reported by the GPS device or by an 'official' assessment of the actual route ridden. It seems like the latter from what you state above.

What is the official application ?


the official app is something we DIY orgs use to measure gpx files for validation; I don't know where it gets its elevation data from; presumably not from a device as some don't record this.


From the info at Working out Climbing Tracklogs

Quote
The altitude needs calibrating at the start of an event to the height of the start point. Failure to do this may invalidate the altitude readings for up to half an hour into the event before the GPS unit corrects itself. I have seen GPS tracklogs starting at Marple with altitudes varying between 150m below sea level and 300m above sea level!

Quote
I will make these checks on the tracklog:

a)   There are no anomalies in the route, due to the rider diverting from it or GPS malfunction.

b)   There are no entries in the tracklog before the start of the event or after the end.

c)   The start, end and intermediate altitudes match those on OS 1:50,000 maps.

d)   Trackpoint frequency is every 100m of distance or less.

e)   There are no sudden changes in recorded altitude as a result of GPS malfunction.

this would leave me to believe the awarded climbing does come from the GPS device readings, or if you like an official assesment of the climbing figure reported by the GPS device.


Manotea

  • Where there is doubt...
Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2010, 10:12:55 am »
the official app is something we DIY orgs use to measure gpx files for validation; I don't know where it gets its elevation data from; presumably not from a device as some don't record this.

I've been looking to tweak the Anfractuous route to see if we can squeeze an AAA point or fraction thereof out of it.

My immediate problem is to generate a gpx track with elevation data that could be processed by the AUK track validator app.

As a Garmin Mapsource+Metroguide user, my best solution* to-date is to generate a ROUTE in Mapsource, save it as a gpx and upload to Bikehike requesting an elevation profile. Bikehike calcs this in realtime, taking a couple of minutes. I can then download the route as a GPX TRACK which includes the elevation data for processing by the AUK trackapp.

So that's the good news. The bad news - or even more good news, depending on your POV -  is even after some tweaking I'm still a couple of hundred metres short of AAAdom. So its official, the Anfractous is officially PAN FLAT.

Edit: *AFAICT

Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2010, 10:47:20 am »
My immediate problem is to generate a gpx track with elevation data that could be processed by the AUK track validator app.

I think the GPX track has to be from any actual ride of the event, not one generated from DEM data such as used by Mapsource/Bikehike/etc and the like.

Someone such as simonp or ChrisS should have a GPX trace of the last time they did the ride, I'm pretty sure both were using GPSes.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #22 on: August 13, 2010, 10:56:58 am »
My immediate problem is to generate a gpx track with elevation data that could be processed by the AUK track validator app.

I think the GPX track has to be from any actual ride of the event, not one generated from DEM data such as used by Mapsource/Bikehike/etc and the like.

But that's a post-mortem view :)

the keyword in all this is "planning". How does a DIY rider know if they'll get AAA points, and how does an organiser know if his event will get AAA points?

I think asking Manotea to ride all the possible routes is a bit much :)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #23 on: August 13, 2010, 11:06:26 am »
Contour counting was the old method, and much more reliable than DEM data.

My point is that whilst you might be able to use bikehike or mapsource to try out various routes and find the total climbing the reality may be quite different, and the reality can only be obtained by riding the actual routes (or gluing together chunks of the different sections).

I don't think that the AAA man will accept GPX tracklogs made by anything other than a real ride of the route.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: DIY/AAA/GPS route planning
« Reply #24 on: August 13, 2010, 09:10:31 pm »
You can save as a gpx and then re-upload

I'm not the greatest techno wizard - I have so far been able to plug my Garmin Edge 205 into my computer and been able to view route ridden and more importantly for AAA purposes show the elevated route via Garmin Connect.
Would a link to the Garmin Connect route be adequate for the route / AAA points to be validated ( bearing in mind that I would have previously informed DIY organiser of route planned )