Camelbak vs bottles on audaxes/ pbp

[david.ness]

I've got a sense this post will be frowned upon but the more I'm thinking about pbp the more i think I want to revert to a camelbak as opposed to bottles I watched the Incredible Journey the other day to whet my appetite and saw a few riders wearing camelbaks - but just a few.

So my question is why do audax riders not use camelbaks ?

[richie]

I use mine, but only MTBing where the risk of getting vast amounts of crap on the bottles and the danger of them flying out of the bottle cage is high. Plus I'm rarely on the MTB for more than 5-6 hrs.  Unlikely on PBP.

The thought of the weight of one or two litres of water plus tools etc. in a bag which is effectively fixed in the same position on the back and shoulders(for 90hrs?) does not appeal - especially when there is plenty of room on the bike for them.  As far as road cycling goes, IMO they are a solution looking for a problem.


Saying that i did see one or two on LEL though so some people like them.

If you decide to do it, try it on some longer qualifiers first.

[Hot Flatus]

The problem with Camelbaks is that it isn't always readily apparent how much fluid you have ingested. Added to that is the hygiene issue of sugary drinks, with bottles much easier to keep clean. Plus it is much more comfortable not to wear one, particularly in the heat.

They are really useful in situations where you can't take your hands off the bars for long, but this isn't the case in road-cycling. There is a reason why you never see them on audaxes. 

[arvid]

I think the main problem is that most people don't like stuff on their back, and normal bottles do the trick for them. In another thread I saw the idea of putting a water bag in the bar bag.

Hygiene is certainly an issue, if you want to put anything else than water in it.
As a recumbent rider, I have used a water bag(not from CamelBak, but from MSR) *and* bottles(from CamelBak). The water bag is for water, the bottles are for sugary stuff.
Even with just the use of water, my drinking hose will often get all kinds of interesting colors that I can't get out(ok, I shouldn't leave it around in my kitchen for a week). Buying another new one is on my list.

[EdinburghFixed]

I quite like the platypus route, but like arvid I have no problem transporting it on my back.

There are plenty of advantages- the container weighs the same whether you fill it with 500ml or 3 litres, you can't drop it, you may drink more - if like me you are one of the people who basically forgets their bottles exist but can sip routinely on a bite valve.

But I'm not sure these outweigh the discomfort of using it, for you.  I don't think I would be so keen on an ordinary bike, even for much shorter rides than PBP! (I don't even like wearing mine for proper off-roading)

[numbnuts]

I've been using a camelbak for years on all my rides
yes your back gets sweaty – you get use to it
Hygiene – all I do with mine is wash it out in hot water and hang it up to dry
found it Flow_Meter
Camelbak Flow Meter for £23.47 at Newitts.com

[Feline]

I have just bought a 2 litre Camelbak since Wiggle had them all on sale. I actually have trouble drinking from a bottle while riding, and since I don't plan on stopping every 10 mins to drink on the longer rides I think it might help me. I am going to experiment with having it in my bar bag and see how that works, the hose definitely seems long enough and if I can set it up with the hose sticking up in the air above the bars I should be able to just lean over and bite the valve without taking my hands off the bars. The trickiest bit might be making sure the bladder is upright with the exit hose at the bottom as my bar bag doesn't have anything inside to hang it from like the Camekbak backpack has.

I am very bad at drinking on rides, when I rode 100km last week I had drunk less than 1/4 of one 750ml bottle by the end. I did have a coffee and half a pink of coke in the pubs though.

[Manotea]

I met an audaxer who had a 2l coke bottle on his down tube fitted with a camelbak drinking tube.

He used this arrangement because he had problems with his teeth and couldn't bite/pull open a water bottle teat. Seemed a brilliantly simple solution. Couple it with a standard bottle on the down tube for sugary stuff and 'job done'.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

My saddle is supporting enough weight without adding a couple of kilos of water.

[mattc]

I actually have trouble drinking from a bottle while riding, and since I don't plan on stopping every 10 mins to drink on the longer rides I think it might help me.

I would make a small wager that this problem will go away with enough practice.

[ I find it more fiddly when I change bikes, until I've used that bike for a few hours. It's just another motor skill to learn, it doesn't happen overnight but it's not Grade 8 harp playing. ]

[Karla]

My saddle is supporting enough weight without adding a couple of kilos of water.

More to the point, my undercarriage is supporting enough weight without adding 2l of water, especially if I'm going to be in the saddle for 20 hours or whatever.

[Kim]

The trickiest bit might be making sure the bladder is upright with the exit hose at the bottom as my bar bag doesn't have anything inside to hang it from like the Camekbak backpack has.

Do the Camelbak bladders care?  I always assumed they were sealed to the air and simply collapsed as the contents were used up, so will work at any angle as long as you ensure that there's no air trapped inside and that the hose isn't kinked or anything.  The modified Ortlieb thing that Charlotte and I have been using for darkside purposes certainly works at all sorts of funny angles (and even as the filling in a rack and rack bag sandwich).

I am very bad at drinking on rides, when I rode 100km last week I had drunk less than 1/4 of one 750ml bottle by the end. I did have a coffee and half a pink of coke in the pubs though.

I'm ...better at it than I used to be.  A drinking tube you can easily use on the move is helpful for making you take small sips, but IMHO bottles aren't a problem, even if you do have to stop riding to use them - just get into the habit of having a sip every time you stop at a junction or to faff with route sheets or clothing or whatever.  Stopping specifically to drink isn't the end of the world if you do it reasonably quickly, and is probably a good idea for getting into the habit of drinking the right amount if you're not confident with bottles on the move.  Your legs/feet will probably appreciate it, anyway.

[teethgrinder]

I've been using a camelbak for years on all my rides
yes your back gets sweaty – you get use to it

There's sweating for a few hours and then there's sweating for tens of hours or days at a time.
It's much easier, more efficient and more comfortable to let the bike carry stuff. Having a lot of sweat trapped in your clothing and next to your skin for days at a time won't do your skin much good. Some people use hydration packs and rucksacks for long rides, but I think it's a bad idea.

I am very bad at drinking on rides, when I rode 100km last week I had drunk less than 1/4 of one 750ml bottle by the end. I did have a coffee and half a pink of coke in the pubs though.

Me too. I don't enjoy drinking just water, so only drink water from my bottle when I get very thirsty. Using yummy Nuun tablets seems to have cured this. I enjoy drinking now, so do it more often. Allthough, if I'm touring, I tend to use drinking as an excuse to stop in a coffee shop every time I get a bit thirsty.

[urban_biker]

Me too. I don't enjoy drinking just water, so only drink water from my bottle when I get very thirsty. Using yummy Nuun tablets seems to have cured this. I enjoy drinking now, so do it more often. Allthough, if I'm touring, I tend to use drinking as an excuse to stop in a coffee shop every time I get a bit thirsty.

I can't agree more. Nuun or 5 Alive type tablets have transformed my audaxing. Normally I just don't drink enough and even when I drink plenty of water I still seem to have hydration issues by the end of a long ride - shakes and temperature regulation issues etc. Used them on the BCM and they were a revelation I felt strong right up to the end of the ride.

[fuaran]

Anyone tried a Cambelbak Racebak? Its a vest with built in CamelBak, seems to be more aimed at road riding. 2010-racebak-mens - CamelBak.com

Or a belt bag might be more comfortable/less sweaty than a rucksack style thing.

[Rainmaker]

 "I actually have trouble drinking from a bottle while riding, and since I don't plan on stopping every 10 mins to drink on the longer rides I think it might help me."

IMO you should try and develope the "skill" of drinking from a bottle when riding, it's not really that difficult, and if you are contemplating riding PBP you should become familiar with riding in a group.

 "I am very bad at drinking on rides, when I rode 100km last week I had drunk less than 1/4 of one 750ml bottle by the end. I did have a coffee and half a pink of coke in the pubs though."

I don't think it is at all unusual to not drink when you are riding at this time of the year, IMO the drinks you had in the pub were sufficient.   Again IMO there is a lot of hype about rehydration, you definately need to rehydrate when the temperature is high but at this time of year it's not a matter of life or death.

[ian_oli]

Or a belt bag might be more comfortable/less sweaty than a rucksack style thing.

I used an Ortlieb bag on the back round the waist on Mille Miglia, to supplement, the two water bottles I had. Plus points are you dont get a sweaty back and there w2ere a couple of stages I was able to go without looking for water midway. Minuses were the water could get horribly warm (worse than a bottle), filling it over around 1.5L (capacity 2) made it feel too tight around the waist and when it got empty you had to tighten the belt (a two handed manoevre) or it flopped around. It was not that comfortable and I will not bother with it for PBP which will almost certainly be cooler and will have more places with potential to get water. See more,  for example, on Wiggle

[Jaded]

I don't think it is at all unusual to not drink when you are riding at this time of the year, IMO the drinks you had in the pub were sufficient.   Again IMO there is a lot of hype about rehydration, you definately need to rehydrate when the temperature is high but at this time of year it's not a matter of life or death.

Interestingly NeilV and I had a conversation about this yesterday on the 100k we were doing (I was doing a 200) saying that we had both drunk much more water than we had expected. We wondered if it was affected by the wind.

[MattH]

I definitely drink less in this weather. A typical mid-season long ride (200km+) in normal (i.e. not baking hot) weather will see me drink about 1.5L/100km on the bike, plus about another 0.5L when stopped at a control. I'll drink half that at this time of year.

[mattc]

I don't think it is at all unusual to not drink when you are riding at this time of the year, IMO the drinks you had in the pub were sufficient.   Again IMO there is a lot of hype about rehydration, you definately need to rehydrate when the temperature is high but at this time of year it's not a matter of life or death.

Interestingly NeilV and I had a conversation about this yesterday on the 100k we were doing (I was doing a 200) saying that we had both drunk much more water than we had expected. We wondered if it was affected by the wind.

Well ... <deep breath> ...

You were probably riding harder than normal in the wind [I think your other post suggested this]. The more effort you make, the more energy you burn through, the more water you need [above your normal sitting-in-a-chair for a day amount].

This weekend has been well above average Jan temps, so that will have reduced the winter water-saving effect a bit!

I suppose it is just possible that strong winds have a dehydrating effect, but my hunch would be that it's a tiny effect.

[L CC]

I actually have trouble drinking from a bottle while riding

If you have trouble drinking from a bottle, how do you manage to signal?

I'm sorry if this sounds patronising but my club had a serious crash (see here: Clicky) on a club ride a couple of weeks ago, and the universal feeling among the old lags like myself is that a contributory factor was poor bike skills.
We have had a massive influx of triathletes and newbies who can't/don't (for example) signal, hold their line, indicate, drink enough.
It's not enough when riding to turn the pedals quickly. You (we) need to do the other stuff too, and that means basics like being comfortable drinking from a bidon on the move without too much wobble.

[Kim]

To be fair, signalling doesn't require fine manipulation of a heavy object down between your legs and out of your line of sight, and there's nothing to drop.  Stowing a bidon on the move is much more fiddly, and unlike signalling isn't actually necessary for most types of riding, so it's not surprising that newbies aren't very good at it.

I agree that if you're going to do it, you want to be reasonably competent at it before doing so in a group, though.  That means practice.

[mattc]

I reckon it's easier than changing gear in a manual car. Which most adults have learned to do.   

[L CC]

I blame indexing. When I were a lass you spent half your riding time fiddling with downtube shifters that didn't quite change properly. Does wonders for your skillz. (says she- 7 offs last year  )

I reckon it's easier than changing gear in a manual car.

And a damn site easier than surgery on kittens, which Feline manages fairly regularly.

Like everything else, a little practise is all that's needed. My point is that it's something you really ought to learn unless you plan to spend all your riding time alone.

[frankly frankie]

Again IMO there is a lot of hype about rehydration, you definately need to rehydrate when the temperature is high but at this time of year it's not a matter of life or death.

Hydration - modern fad innit - Lawrence of Arabia would be turning in his grave.

Even a hot PBP is perfectly OK with a single 1l bottle, in my experience - it's not as though there aren't a zillion shops/bars along the route, where you have a wide selection of liquids if you get that desperate.

And if its as wet as last time you'll just get all the liquid you need by osmosis.