Author Topic: Titanium Bike makers  (Read 49514 times)

Titanium Bike makers
« on: June 19, 2008, 11:04:50 pm »
I'm set on getting a titanium bike.

I know of Enigma, Van Nicholas, Sunday and Setavento.

Is there anyone else I should be looking at ?

Thanks


Edit. Here is a listing of all the suggested manufacturers/suppliers that have been entered into this thread. Thanks everyone !!

Enigma
Van Nicholas
Serotta
Sunday
Burl
Zero Four - Evolution Winter Audax
Condor
XACD
Lynskey
Litespeed
DeRosa
Kish
TiArrow.se | Svenska Titancyklar]TiArrow
Planet X
Matt Chester
Bianchi
Crisp
Ritchey
Merlin
Rust never sleeps

gonzo

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2008, 11:06:43 pm »
What do you want from it? What cost?

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2008, 11:13:39 pm »
Day rides, occasional FNRttCs, commuter (20 miles daily round trip) when the sun shines. Possible light (very light) touring. Commute will be with a laptop and bag of clothes/tools.

So, rack, guards and a triple. Prefer a regular headset (ie non-integrated). Function wins out over form every time.

It will be (probably) my one and only new bike.

Quite prepared for it to cost 2k ish.

Rust never sleeps

Paul Smith SRCC

  • Surrey Road Cyling Club
  • 40+ years a club rider, 30+ years in cycle trade.
    • www.plsmith.co.uk
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2008, 11:15:16 pm »
I'm set on getting a titanium bike.

I know of Enigma, Van Nicholas, Sunday and Setavento

It depends on what type of bike you are after (edit I started this before the reply immediately above), if Audax then the Enigma Etape, Sunday 'September', Burls, Van Nicholas Yukon and Condor Cycles plus Xacd who you can deal with direct all have bikes that will fit those requirements, Setavento have stoped trading.

If race bike style then also add Derosa, Litespeed, Lynskey to the above

Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk

Gus

  • Loosing weight stone by stone
    • We will return
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2008, 11:20:18 pm »

If you want custom build try KISH in the US of A

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2008, 11:22:03 pm »
Quite prepared for it to cost 2k ish.

The Condor Gran Fondo is definitely dribble-worthy and probably would be top of my list.

It would set you back £2100 with Ultegra (£1900 with 105) or if you want Campag: £2200 with Centaur (£1900 with Veloce).

Current plan is to upgrade the Audax bike (currently a lovely 631 Aravis Audax frame) to an Enigma Etape and the fixed (current a lovely Condor Tempo) to a slightly customised version of the Condor Gran Fondo (i.e. minus gear cable guides and with track-ends or horizontal dropouts).
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2008, 11:25:07 pm »
It depends on what type of bike you are after (edit I started this before the reply immediately above), if Audax then the Enigma Etape, Sunday 'September', Burls, Van Nicholas Yukon and Condor Cycles plus Xacd who you can deal with direct all have bikes that will fit those requirements, Setavento have stoped trading.

If race bike style then also add Derosa, Litespeed, Lynskey to the above

Paul_Smith
www.bikeplus.co.uk

Paul,

Brilliant. Thanks for this. Much appreciated.

Edit.  And Gus, and Greenbank too.

Kish looks plush. But I'm not in California any time soon. Dang.
Rust never sleeps

gonzo

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2008, 11:30:32 pm »
Remember that the more you pay, the better the weld quality will be in general. Titanium frames fail at the welds if at all.

I'd advise speaking to Jim Walker from enigma and see if he can convince you to buy from them.

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2008, 11:39:26 pm »
Remember that the more you pay, the better the weld quality will be in general. Titanium frames fail at the welds if at all.

I'd advise speaking to Jim Walker from enigma and see if he can convince you to buy from them.
Thanks. I did spend an hour with Enigma recently, and was impressed with their attention to detail and the general gorgeousness of their bikes.

However, I do want a traditional headset and they didn't seem too keen on this idea. Also (and this is really nit-picky), I thought the cable guides on the down tube were a bit prominent  (and I understand this was to allow for the adjuster). Again, when I mentioned this they didn't seem too keen to change this. Problem for me is whether I want to go the whole extra hog for a custom frame for a couple of tiny niggles.

The point of the post is to see what else is out there. If Enigma's standard Etape frame had those two things sorted, I would probably own one now.
Rust never sleeps

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2008, 11:43:37 pm »
When the "Ask Bern" thread was alive on the old C+ I did enquire about a Ti Fixed frame from Condor. Bern made it sound like they would do minor tweaks and customisations (i.e. nothing that changes the geometry) for only a small fee.

But, of course, there's "small fee" and there's Condor's idea of "small fee".

Definitely worth asking them.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

donpedro

  • ain`t haulin` any lambs to the marketplace anymore
    • But, I'm Swedish!
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2008, 12:19:07 am »
TiArrow will make you a custom frame for a small fee, and I mean small fee!  ;)

TiArrow.se | Svenska Titancyklar

"A society is defined not only by what it creates, but by what it refuses to destroy."

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2008, 07:53:02 am »

JT

  • Howay the lads!
    • CTC Peterborough
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2008, 08:11:05 am »
Planet X's new Ti frames are made by Lynskey and look gorgeous but unfortunately have no provision for a rack.

You can get one built up with a full Dura Ace groupset for under £1800.



Planet X Ti frame FAQ

a great mind thinks alike

gonzo

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2008, 08:23:14 am »
However, I do want a traditional headset and they didn't seem too keen on this idea. Also (and this is really nit-picky), I thought the cable guides on the down tube were a bit prominent  (and I understand this was to allow for the adjuster). Again, when I mentioned this they didn't seem too keen to change this. Problem for me is whether I want to go the whole extra hog for a custom frame for a couple of tiny niggles.

I'd agree that it would be silly to go custom  (£100 ???) to sort out these problems. Have you sonsidered getting a custom for better fit or are you standard size?

I got my first Omega (previous to Enigma) with a regular headset which I had to pursade them about. The cable guides I'll agree aren't great, hence the reason why I got my new Enigma's stops without an adjuster and very close to the frame.

Finally, remember that all ti is not the same. We've had the discussion on here many times before and it's agreed that the quality of frame design is more important than material for ride quality. A good indication of this is looking at the number of times a tube changes shape/ thickness or direction down it's length.

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2008, 08:37:49 am »
TiArrow will make you a custom frame for a small fee, and I mean small fee!  ;)

TiArrow.se | Svenska Titancyklar



That doesn't appear to be working, I get an image with NOTAMOOTS on it (which I assume isn't what was intended).
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2008, 08:41:50 am »

Fidgetbuzz

  • L sp MOON. 1st R sp MARS . At X SO sp STARS
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2008, 09:03:27 am »
I am very happy with my Zerofour from Matt Gibbons in Hampshire- personal fit - careful attention to what I asked for.
Web site - google zerofour
I was an accountant until I discovered Audax !!

cc93

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2008, 09:15:09 am »
Remember that the more you pay, the better the weld quality will be in general. Titanium frames fail at the welds if at all.

From Thorn Audax Mk3 brochure - grain of truth or total BS?

Titanium frames are fairly light, they
ride very well but it is extremely
expensive to have the required fittings
and furthermore, all titanium frames
that we have known, have also broken!
It is usually impossible to repair a
titanium frame. Perhaps there are some
titanium frames, being made today, or
which may be made in the future, that won’t break... but we
doubt it. We certainly wouldn’t want to risk such a huge sum
of money, when steel is almost as light, much more durable
(and could be easily repaired if necessary), rides better, is
relatively inexpensive and a steel frame
can have all the fittings you require.

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2008, 09:21:48 am »
What a load of BS. 

"extremely expensive to have the required fittings" - like what?  Brazeons?  Rubbish.  And a groupset is a groupset is a groupset...

"all titanium frames we have known have also broken"  Hmm.

"steel ... rides better".  Hmm again.

I've got 2 Ti frames, both from XACD, both at the cheap end of cheap (250 quid each - ish).  Both have beautiful welds, easially as good as a van nicholas.  They use very different tubes to the top end frames from somewhere like enigma though.


Wowbagger

  • Dez's butler
    • Musings of a Gentleman Cyclist
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2008, 09:27:13 am »
Thorn do like to push steel frames, don't they? It's damned silly to say that "all titanium frames we have ever known have also broken". That, of course, is apart from those that haven't broken yet...
Eating's a serious business. Don't bollocks around wagging your tail.

Paul Smith SRCC

  • Surrey Road Cyling Club
  • 40+ years a club rider, 30+ years in cycle trade.
    • www.plsmith.co.uk
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2008, 10:17:37 am »
Remember that the more you pay, the better the weld quality will be in general. Titanium frames fail at the welds if at all.

From Thorn Audax Mk3 brochure - grain of truth or total BS?

Titanium frames are fairly light, they
ride very well but it is extremely
expensive to have the required fittings
and furthermore, all titanium frames
that we have known, have also broken!
It is usually impossible to repair a
titanium frame. Perhaps there are some
titanium frames, being made today, or
which may be made in the future, that won’t break... but we
doubt it. We certainly wouldn’t want to risk such a huge sum
of money, when steel is almost as light, much more durable
(and could be easily repaired if necessary), rides better, is
relatively inexpensive and a steel frame
can have all the fittings you require.
No such thing as the perfect product with Zero returns, I have seen all fail, carbon, steel, Titanium and Aluminium Alloy, for sure some have different vulnerabilities to fatigue although with efforts made by the leading brands into R & D they are of course sensitive to the materials used and design their frames accordingly.

The result is that all frames, no matter what they are made of should have a long life and perform as designed. I have worked in cycle retail for twenty years and warranty failures are insignificant compaired to those of twenty years ago; when all frames were steel!

The best manufactures often offer lifetime warranty to the original owner, some even offer a no fault price reduction for crash replacement. As for comments likes Steel rides better and is more durable than Titanium, I have both and prefer my Titanium bike, although I have to say it is a close call. As for durabilty my comments above are reasurance enough for me, especially as I have broken one steel frame and replaced another (the red one) with Titanium, as I could see a significant amount of rust tumbling down the inside of the tubes when I serviced the bike; it had served me well over many years so no complaints though; nothing as far as I am concerned lasts forever.

Paul_Smith
www.corridori.co.uk

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2008, 10:44:42 am »
Titanium frames...   ...when steel is almost as light, much more durable
(and could be easily repaired if necessary), rides better, is
relatively inexpensive and a steel frame
can have all the fittings you require.

Brilliant! Is there a smilar piece of humour for carbon vs steel ready for the next time I see the lads at the club? ;)

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2008, 11:28:33 am »
Yet more proof that Thorn/Blance are partly living in a land of make believe with pixies and fairies where 26" wheels rule...

Compare:

"all titanium frames that we have known, have also broken!"

with

 "we have never had a [Rohloff] hub fail"
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2008, 11:42:35 am »
Quote
The result is that all frames, no matter what they are made of should have a long life and perform as designed.
OT:
This reminds of a story from when cam-belts were still Quite a New Thing in motor cars.
A friend asked VW how long the belt would last before snapping:
"Oh don't worry sir, we expect them to last at least as long as the engine." Well yes,  but it's not really very reassuring when you think about it ...
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

gonzo

Re: Titanium Bike makers
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2008, 11:55:21 am »
As has been said; most good Ti manufacturers will offer a lifetime warranty and if the frames broke as much as thorn claimed, they'd be bankrupt in not much time!