Author Topic: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review  (Read 12622 times)

pdm

  • Sheffield hills? Nah... Just potholes.
Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« on: August 14, 2011, 08:27:39 PM »
Background:

With my all weather winter commuter bicycle needing a rebuild after 3 winters of grit and crud destroying a rim, 2 cassettes, several chains and a chain ring, I decided so splash out and convert it to a hub drive. These are said to be low maintenance and, with a hub disc brake version, rim wear friendly. Initially I had the notion to use a Rohloff hub - I have one on our tandem; it works well and has lasted. However, the 11 speed Alfine hub has been receiving favourable reviews and has the option of using 3rd party Versa brake lever/shifters which work in a similar manner to "STI"  shifters with drop bars. Trawling the web again recently, I came across some favourable offers for all the bits required and so took the plunge.

The Bits:

The hub itself arrives without fittings. You need to buy a small parts kit, disc rotor and sprocket as well. Fortunately, PlanetX/One One were offering a "full" kit of all these bits at a good price together with Versa shifters. Their current price for full kits is £399 with trigger shifters and £499 with Versa lever shifters. The list price for all the individual bits making up these kits is £474 and £672 respectively so still not a bad deal.
In addition, I decided to buy the Alfine 39 tooth chainset and an Alfine chain tensioner. These I sourced elswhere.
I had a Grizzly 700c 36 hole rim "in stock".
280mm spokes are needed for this rim hub/rim combination - I bought SAPIM Race silver spokes - middle of the range, strong, butted spokes.

Total cost of everything listed above was a bit over £500.  (A further purchase of a road specific BB7 disc brake completed the setup.)
The Alfine thus worked out a lot cheaper than a Rohloff which would have set me back at least double that without the option of drop handlebar compatible shifters.

The approximate total weight of the kit installed (incl spokes, brakes and rims, etc): ~3.6kg
This replaced stuff weighing ~ 2.8kg (Ultegra triple, V brakes). I.e. about 800g heavier.

Building it all up:

Unless you have your LBS do it for you, there a few hours of work to do to install the hub....

The documentation provided with the Hub recommends 3x or 4x wheel lacing - I decided on 3x. The nipple/rim angles with a wider hub with 4x are just a little severe for my taste... The wheel is built with a slight dish, unlike the Rohloff which is symmetrical. Using a wheel stand and spoke tension meter, it built up very easily.
Once built, the sprocket needs to attached. The supplied instructions are quite adequate and need to be followed step by step. Coaxing on the retaining circlip requires the judicious use of a suitably sized screwdriver and a minor amount of swearing. Fitting the disc is trivial - it slides on and is held in place with a notched screw on ring of the same configuration as that securing shimano cassettes to hubs.
The Alfine does not use an anti-rotation lever or bar; instead, its axle bolt is flatted on two sides and you are provided with special washers with flanges that engage the dropouts. These are colour coded for left and right. If you use the Alfine chain tensioner, the right hand one is not used; the tensioner does the same job. The bit of the Alfine tensioner fitting to the axle is quite bulky and I had to file down one edge of it to clear the bolt hole for the mudguard stay and then respray the exposed metal.
Once the wheel was in place, the chainset was fitted - usual Shimano external bearing bottom bracket with 2 piece crank construction. We will see how long this bottom bracket lasts - I do have a Hope ceramic replacement on the shelf for when it fails.... I shortened a chain appropriately and fitted it as short as possible and took up the slack with the chain tensioner - this is not spring loaded - you adjust it into place and tighten the bolts. The jockey wheel can be adjusted sideways with a small allan bolt - a little fiddly and you have to take care to get it straight while tightening the allan bolt....

Views of the Alfine hub built up and installed:



Close up view showing the single "pull only" gear shifting cable, chain guarded sprocket and (partly hidden) the chain tensioner.



Next came the shifters - The Versa 11 shifters look very much like Shimano STI but have instead a non sideways moving brake lever with 2 sideways moving smaller sub levers that shift up and down respectively. The levers have the same fixing method as Shimano STI making replacing the existing STI trivial - just unbolt, replace and tighten - no need to remove the bar tape, the fixing bolts and bands are the same. The gear cable fits in a similar manner - select top gear, slide the wire in from the right side and that is it. At the hub end, there is an odd shaped cable bolt that is slid onto the wire. I found the best way of installing was to select highest gear and then tension the cable manually. Position the wire in the groove around the hub where it is meant to go and slide the bolt to the position where it would slide into position on the hub, move it 1mm "shorter" and then tighten. To slip in into the notch on the hub, I positioned it so that the the shallow hexagonal nut is pointing outward and can be engaged with a correct sized hex socket. This is then used to twist the assembly so that its flats will slide into the notch and then twist it straight to engage. Once in place, the tension of the wire has to be adjusted using either the inline tension adjuster supplied or the down tube ferrule adjuster as per instructions: Simply adjust tension to align a couple of yellow dots on the hub with the shifter in 6th gear - very simple. The hub shift is spring loaded, pulling against tension shifts to a lower gear, releasing tension drops it back to a higher gear.

View of the Versa 11 shifter showing the larger, lower down shifter and the smaller up shifter above, both behind the brake lever.



Impressions:

The hub seems to be well built for the price and shifts easily as installed. It can be shifted while stationary and while pedaling, even when applying pressure to the pedals. As with all hubs, very heavy pressure on the pedals will prevent shifting but I have found that the Alfine is a lot more tolerant of shifting under pressure than the Rohloff. In low and high gears the geatrain has a very slight "spongy" feel as the gears take up slack in the drivetrain - I suspect this may lessen as they bed in - it did with the Rohloff. During the first 100 miles of usage, there was the occasional "hiccup" when pedaling after a gear change, especially in the 4-6 range (around 1:1 = gear 5), presumably due to the geartrain reseating after shifting. Occasionally, there is loss of engagement between gears when shifting for about 1/2 crank revolution. These phenomena have become less frequent as the gears have bedded in but not yet disappeared. Since I now expect them occasionally, they do not bother me over much. The gear ratios are about right. With a 39 tooth chainring and a 20 tooth sprocket the range is from 27" to 113". This compares with 31-118" for the 10 speed 12-27 triple that the hub has replaced. The lower 27" gear is occasionally helpful, especially up a 10% incline against a westerly gale as happened this last week. The 113" means spinning at 100rpm to achieve 54kph (34mph). I tend to spin out at about 120rpm giving a max pedaling speed of about 64kph/40mph) The slightly shorter Alfine cranks (170mm as opposed to my usual 175mm) mean a few more RPM but the difference is otherwise not detectable.
The "straight through" gear is gear 5, giving me about 53". On the commute this is about ideal for spinning up the hills which average between 3 and 6%. For my sort of terrain, this gearing is therefore about right.
The Versa shifters are (as are most things!) a compromise. The longer, lower down shift lever needs a good swing (compared with the Ultegra STI) to shift and I had to keep reminding myself to do so - the degree of swing is almost what one would use on a double shift with the STI. It will shift only one gear at a time. However, once you get the hang of it it works positively each time. Up shifting is a matter of a touch to the upshifter lever situated above the down shifter. The position is ideal for the index finger knuckle when on the drops but needs a slightly more awkward reach when on the drops. Up shifting is therefore very easy, fast and at a touch (when on the hoods) while down shifting requires more movement of the lever. However, the system is integrated into a lever on the drops and that is the biggest bonus, being able to shift without moving your hand off the hood or drop.
So far I have used the bicycle on my commute. This gives a good mix of terrain (over 2500' climbing in 36 miles). Speed wise, i cannot say there is much difference between old and new geartrains. The first day the commute took a total of 2h19 (avg 24.8kph). The next day was slower (23.5kph) due to bad headwinds. Realisticly, there probably is not much difference between the previous and current geartrain; at worst 1kph in the hills?
Overall, my impressions are favourable and for a winter commuter such as this has been used for it is fine and, I think, better than a Rohloff would have been since 1. I use drop bars and 2. it shifts better under pressure.

Verdict:
* So far so good - we will see how it survives the grit and muck in the winter. Price/Quality point about right.

Pros:
* Not difficult to build up and set up.
* Seems well made - time will tell.
* 11 well spaced gears with a good range. 53" 1:1 is good for hill climbing (the Rohloff has 1:1 on gear 11 which is better for flat riding)
* Shifts quite well under pressure (Better than Rohloff)
* The integrated Versa brake/shifter does what it says on the box and works well.

Cons:
* Up shift lever slightly out of the way when on the drops.
* Occasional glitches and disengegement when shifting.
* Expensive (but not nearly as expensive as a Rohloff and not much more than good quality triple)



Appendix 1:
Gear ratios, gearing and speed at cadence.
(39x20 and 700c28 tyre assumed)
________________________________________________
|      Gear|     Ratio |   Inches| kph@100rpm |
________________________________________________
|        1|     0.527|     27.8|      13.3 |
|        2|     0.681|     35.9|      17.2 |
|        3|     0.770|     40.5|      19.4 |
|        4|     0.878|     46.2|      22.1 |
|        5|     0.995|     52.4|      25.1 |
|        6|     1.134|     59.7|      28.6 |
|        7|     1.292|     68.0|      32.6 |
|        8|     1.462|     77.0|      36.9 |
|        9|     1.667|     87.8|      42.0 |
|      10|     1.888|     99.4|      47.6 |
|      11|     2.153|      113|      54.3 |
________________________________________________
Pieter


Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #1 on: August 14, 2011, 09:33:46 PM »
Very useful review :)

How are you finding the disc brake on the back? I quite like the idea of a disc on the back (because that's the rim that's going to wear out first with any other brake) and a V-brake or caliper on the front (because then the relatively limited disc fork choices, braze ons etc, don't matter, and also you can have a decent carbon fork on there without any of the worries about suitability of the design for discs etc.). 

How sensitive is the adjustment of the gearchange cable? What I'm thinking of is, does removing / refitting the wheel require adjustment afterwards?


PaulF

  • "World's Scariest Barman"
  • It's only impossible if you stop to think about it
Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #2 on: August 14, 2011, 09:55:43 PM »

How sensitive is the adjustment of the gearchange cable? What I'm thinking of is, does removing / refitting the wheel require adjustment afterwards?



Certainly on the Alfine 8 speed the answer is "not at all". When removing the wheel you slide the shifter mechanism on the hub forward to slacken the cable and slip out the nut that attaches the cable to the hub. Replacing is th reverse.

If you need to adjust the gears it's simple. Drop into 4th and adjust the tensioner until the yellow dots on the shifter mechanism and hub are in line.

Doubt that they'd have made the 11 speed less user friendly......

pdm

  • Sheffield hills? Nah... Just potholes.
Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #3 on: August 14, 2011, 09:59:16 PM »
Very useful review :)

How are you finding the disc brake on the back? I quite like the idea of a disc on the back (because that's the rim that's going to wear out first with any other brake) and a V-brake or caliper on the front (because then the relatively limited disc fork choices, braze ons etc, don't matter, and also you can have a decent carbon fork on there without any of the worries about suitability of the design for discs etc.). 

I REALY like the disc on the back. Initial use has shown the BB7 to be just about right in terms of braking and little different to the previous V brakes in the dry. On the winter commutes in the past, I have found two main problems, namely loss of braking due to the wet and increased wear due to wet grit on the rim. Disc brakes are less likely to get as wet and perform better in the wet anyway so I am pretty confident they will perform OK in the winter. In the rain last Wednesday, they did not get wet enough to give a meaningful result...

How sensitive is the adjustment of the gearchange cable? What I'm thinking of is, does removing / refitting the wheel require adjustment afterwards?
Not bad at all - as luck would have it, I removed the wheel twice after installation to tweak the tyre fit and to tweak the spokes after the first 50 miles. Both times the gear cable needed no adjustment on re-fitting. To release the cable, I put the shifter on top gear (loosest cable) turn the gear hub shifting ring clockwise manually and hold it there to relax the cable completely and the use a small hex socket on the cable nut to twist it so that the flats are aligned to allow it to be eased out of the notch in which it sits. It is then completely loose. Right axle nut off completely, take off the chain tensioner, loosen the left axle nut and the wheel can then be dropped out of the dropouts.... refitting the wheel is the reverse.
Adjusting the shifting cable tension is actually very easy - Put it in 6th and change the tension to line up the marks on the hub.
Pieter


Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2011, 11:11:40 PM »
Very nice write up, pdm.

I remember the Sheffield hills very well and fully understand why effective and safe braking is a necessity in that city.

Frere


pdm

  • Sheffield hills? Nah... Just potholes.
Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #5 on: October 09, 2011, 12:48:20 PM »
The hub has been in use for some 2 months now and has done about 700km, all in the hilly terrain of the Derbyshire Peak district; about 10,000m climbing. This means a lot of gear changing and riding at greatly different speeds.

So far my impressions have changed little. It is a good hub with good ratios. As hoped for, 5th gear is just about right for gentle hills up to 4 or 5%. I still get the occasional hesitation and "re-engagement" after shifting; the gear cable length/tension seems to be relatively sensitive in minimising these "glitches" but it is easy to adjust while in 6th gear with the in-line screw to line up the marks on the hub and, once adjusted, shifting works pretty well most of the time and no worse than the old, worn dérailleur system it replaced although not as good as the newer Ultegra system on my Audax bike. Once adjusted I do not have to touch it for about two weeks - I suspect this interval will lengthen once the gear wire has finished its initial "stretch" from new.  Efficiency wise, I seem to have dropped about 3-4% on usual speeds on this bike - I can live with that. The first oil change will be coming up in the next month or so - we shall have to see if that makes any difference.

I have also had one puncture on the rear wheel - a 3mm glass shard had worked its way through the M-Supreme protective layers. I now always carry a 15mm spanner for the rear nuts and removing the wheel was not difficult. Replacing it requires a little sleight of hand to get the chain and tensioner in place before tightening the nuts, especially if you are being attacked by an all encompassing cloud midges at the time but it all went back together without too much difficulty. No re-adjustment of the gear wire tension required. I have replaced the rear M-Supreme with a 622x28 M+ for the winter.

The Rohloff I have is more solid "in gear" when shifted, suffering no or very few post shifting hiccups but is not quite as smooth to shift, especially when under pedal pressure when easing off is definitely needed. The Rohloff either does not shift until easing off or, occasionally, it engages the high gear range ratio before dropping to the correct range when easing pedal pressure.
Pieter


Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #6 on: October 10, 2011, 11:45:02 AM »
Really interested in this as we are now looking for a hub geared touring bike and have been looking close at the Alfine11.
Nice review PDM  :thumbsup:

Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2011, 01:52:51 PM »
I'm sure you will enjoy your new singlespeed in 'proper' winter when the single gear change cable and hub change mechanism has frozen within a couple of miles from home. Just make sure you get stuck in a suitable gear !

My Singular Peregrine with Alfine hub, disc brakes  and studded tyres does bad weather winter duty in place of the Amazon Rohloff and I always carry a small spray can of de-icer in my saddle bag just in case. I also need to replace the Avid BB7 calipers each spring as they will have rotted and be seized after a winter of ice and salt.

At least the Rohloff doesn't suffer so badly from freezing - I usually end up with up to four gears in sub -10 weather.

Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #8 on: October 11, 2011, 09:16:11 AM »

At least the Rohloff doesn't suffer so badly from freezing - I usually end up with up to four gears in sub -10 weather.

Is this because of thaw/freeze, bunging up the cables?  I'm just about to go into a cold winter with my Rohloff and was not expecting problems because where I am it stays cold. 

Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #9 on: October 11, 2011, 11:25:25 AM »
It wasn't the cables - I know this because trying to change gear with somewhat more gusto than usual caused the connectors close to the hub to pop open. I suspect that the internal cable had got some water in it which was freezing even though it should be protected by the rubber boots. I guess that as the bike looked more like a snow sculpture on some days and was still running on four gears, I should be happy.

Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2011, 12:18:00 PM »
offtopic:
I had my Rohloff freeze up last winter. When I removed the shifter box the cables ran fine though.
I had cycled through water higher than the axles during summer and apparently water got into the shifter part that usually doesn't come off the Rohloff. It had a kind of cement like mix of water and grease in it. I had my dealer replace it (but only after it stopped freezing, so not a tested solution).
Quote from: Wowbagger
I think that YACF is really an online mental hospital and the Audax board is the ward for dangerous psychopaths.

Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2011, 07:11:52 PM »
Even if it did only give you one gear, you'll still have a more useful vehicle than our car (for the last two winters anyway!).

Needless to say, the car cost *much* more than a hub gear too  :facepalm:
AAA SR: Mastermind, Snow Roads, Deeside Lass, Old 240 [200/1500km, 2/21 AAA]

pdm

  • Sheffield hills? Nah... Just potholes.
Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #12 on: November 09, 2011, 07:19:45 PM »
The 1000km mark trickled past on the 4th November so it was time to change the oil in the oil bath....
Rather than spend a fortune on the Shimano oil change kit, I used a Rohloff one left over from my last oil change on the Rohloff equipped tandem. The little plastic tube with a hollow grub screw fits perfectly and syringes are 10 a penny.
Following the Shimano instructions, I first drained off the old oil. Nasty viscous black sfuff it was too - I only managed to drain 12 mls. Was the hub sold short or did it evapourate after manufacture, one wonders?...
The hub was then flushed with 25mls of oil followed by draining and refilling with a final 25mls. The flush oil also came out a nasty shade of darkness.
The good news is that the hub seems to have responded well to the tender loving care bestowed. Shifting is much improved with almost no glitches and no more engagement failures. I was beginning to despair about this but since the oil change, it is running and changing much more smoothly. I may even treat it to another change at 2000km!
The drag on gears other than 5th also feels slightly improved now - about 3-4 minutes better on the 57km commute on first estimation.
With the hub now behaving better, I am much more optimistic that it will fulfill the promise of a maintenance free winter resistant geartrain.
I will report again after the winter.
Pieter


pdm

  • Sheffield hills? Nah... Just potholes.
Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2011, 02:24:41 PM »
Update: December, 2011. (~1500km)

Hub:
Since the oil change, the hub has been behaving much better and I am pleased with its shifting and range. Some gears (esp 2nd gear) still feel a little "spongy" with reduced efficiency but all in all it works very well. The residual shifting glitches may well have been due to the Versa shifter - see below.

Versa Shifter:
Sadly, I am a little less enamoured with the 11 speed Versa shifter. Over the last 2-3 weeks, it started mis-shifting and sometimes even upshifting when trying to downshift. This got worse and worse and was presumably due to faulty or prematurely wearing  shifting pauls. I contacted PlanetX/On One, popped in to visit (they are faily local to me) to demonstrate the fault and came away with a brand new replacement lever. I was assured that they have had no other complaints of defective Versa Levers and that my difficulty was probably a "friday afternoon" one-off (no pun intended!). The new lever is now installed and shifting functions well again. No mis-shifts yet.

I will report again after another 1000k or so.
Pieter


pdm

  • Sheffield hills? Nah... Just potholes.
Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2011, 10:45:15 AM »
I can confirm that with the new shifter very few mis-shifts occur and I am pleased with the new combination. The old shifter must have been a friday afternoon job,
However, two days after fitting the new shifter, its dust cover dropped off and was lost (in the dark).
There is a single self tapping fixing screw which seemed to have stripped its trhread in the plastic cover. I notified the manufacturers of the defect by email and they replaced the hood without a quibble (2 days postage from Taiwan! Very impressive)
Pieter


Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2012, 06:29:56 PM »
Thanks for all the info in this thread. I am after a winter/commuter/tourer N+1 to fit my new Schwalbe winter tyres to if it gets icy and the On-one Pompetamine Versa 11 seems to fit the bill. I had a life insurance policy I forgot I had mature and it is about to pay out nearly enough dosh to get this bike. Annoyingly they don't offer a choice of front hubs despite the wheels being hand built so I can't spec it with a dyno hub from their website. I'm not looking forward to having to rebuild a wheel with disc brakes because I know nothing about disc brakes and also nothing about wheel building although simonp left his very nice wheel building jig here  :demon:

PaulF

  • "World's Scariest Barman"
  • It's only impossible if you stop to think about it
Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2012, 06:48:26 PM »
Why don't you give On-One a ring? I've always found their customer service very good so they may help you out.

tiermat

  • King of the big shiny flange and flashy blu lights
Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2012, 06:53:00 PM »
FWIW, if it is a Shimano dynohub you are looking for in this case, I would recommend one of these:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/shimano-deore-lx-dh-t665-lx-6v-30w-qr-dynamo-front-centre-lock-disc-hub-prod22286/

I have one on my InBred and it's fab :)  Took me a while to find it though, as I seemed to lose my google-fu at the right moment, thought it might help to let you know :)

You will either need a centrelock to 6 bolt adaptor or a disc brake that uses centrelock rotors (don't go thinking you can use a CL disc with a 6 bolt rotor caliper, doesn't always work DNAHIKT)
Tony Stark: [to Loki] There's one more guy you pissed off... His name's Phil.


Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2012, 07:26:32 PM »
Why don't you give On-One a ring? I've always found their customer service very good so they may help you out.

I might have to overcome my phone-phobia to do this, yikes!

FWIW, if it is a Shimano dynohub you are looking for in this case, I would recommend one of these:

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/shimano-deore-lx-dh-t665-lx-6v-30w-qr-dynamo-front-centre-lock-disc-hub-prod22286/

I have one on my InBred and it's fab :)  Took me a while to find it though, as I seemed to lose my google-fu at the right moment, thought it might help to let you know :)

You will either need a centrelock to 6 bolt adaptor or a disc brake that uses centrelock rotors (don't go thinking you can use a CL disc with a 6 bolt rotor caliper, doesn't always work DNAHIKT)

Thanks. Your talk of adaptors is a bit skeeery, I know nothing of these things! It sounds like getting On-one to molish this might be preferable to trying to work it out myself! That hub sounds pretty good value compared to the SON equivalent at £209  :o I think I paid about that for the last whole wheel SJS built me on a SON dyno hub! http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/schmidt-son-28-disc-center-lock-dynamo-front-hub-silver-prod27090/

Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2012, 07:28:51 PM »
Thanks. Your talk of adaptors is a bit skeeery, I know nothing of these things! It sounds like getting On-one to molish this might be preferable to trying to work it out myself!

Nah, we just have a BWNCWR fettling party!

Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2012, 07:42:42 PM »
Thanks. Your talk of adaptors is a bit skeeery, I know nothing of these things! It sounds like getting On-one to molish this might be preferable to trying to work it out myself!

Nah, we just have a BWNCWR fettling party!

That thought had crossed my mind! It is prolly about time I learned how to build wheels, and also to bake CAIK  :D
How on earth do you work out what length spokes to order?

Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2012, 07:53:41 PM »
Rosebikes have that Shimano dynohub at £55, top outfit. I have just bought one and need to find time to build it up.

Kim

  • An appetite for the epic, but no real stamina
Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2012, 07:55:01 PM »
How on earth do you work out what length spokes to order?

*That's* the clever bit.  Centerlock adaptors are a no-brainer, they just screw on with a cassette lockring tool in exactly the same way as a Centerlock rotor would.  Building dished wheels is exactly the same as building undished wheels (you have to get the dish right regardless - even if it's zero!), except the spoke lengths/tension are different on each side.

There's a terrifying Excel monstrosity on St Sheldon's website that will calculate spoke lengths for given combinations of hubs and rims.  If it doesn't know yours you can feed it the relevant measurements directly.  It's served me well for the wheels I've built so far...
She's scarily good with a circular saw, you know. Much better than she is with a Stanley knife.

PaulF

  • "World's Scariest Barman"
  • It's only impossible if you stop to think about it
Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2012, 07:58:49 PM »
Doesnt't the Pompetamine have BB7's?  If so switching between centre lock and 6 bolt shouldn't be an issue. Or, more accurately, I've done it without problem on 2 bikes!

tiermat

  • King of the big shiny flange and flashy blu lights
Re: Alfine 11 speed with Versa 11 levers: a review
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2012, 09:33:14 PM »
Doesnt't the Pompetamine have BB7's?  If so switching between centre lock and 6 bolt shouldn't be an issue. Or, more accurately, I've done it without problem on 2 bikes!

Which is why I said doesn't ALWAYS work.

FWIW, it appears that the higher spec disc rotors (XT for instance) have longer arms and less material for the actual disc (if that makes sense) and it is the joints that catch on BB7s (i.e. where the rotor arm meets the disc)
Tony Stark: [to Loki] There's one more guy you pissed off... His name's Phil.