Author Topic: Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE  (Read 72348 times)

Difficulty in installing tyres? RANKINGS only PLEASE
« on: November 01, 2011, 09:25:04 am »
There are many threads about "can't get such & such a tyre on this or that rim" and the usual advice includes a link to that Spa video, use of talc etc. etc.  but I think it's common experience that certain rims are harder to fit tyres to than others - I've always assumed because very slightly bigger overall diameter.   Similarly certain tyres (when new) can be more difficult than others, again probably because of being very slightly "undersize".

So I thought we should build our own database or ranking system of both tyres and rims and keep it as "sticky" ?    If nothing else it will help us avoid particularly "difficult" combinations.

To keep enlarging this database we need COMPARISONS
If you tell me that tyre A on rim X was a right bastard or that even your 86 year old granny could install tyre B on rim Y without levers I have no way of placing either Tyre or Rim in the ranking, and your post will be ignored.
The ideal information is in the format:   For a given rim X, tyre A was a lot/slightly harder to fit than tyre B
or Tyre A was easier to fit on rim X than it was on rim Y
Or - if you think the order of the existing items is wrong... tell me and I will move stuff up or down.


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700c Rims
Smallest Diameter to Largest
(= easiest to fit tyres to at the top of the list )
Rigida Flyer
Ryde Racer
Mavic Ksyrium
Mavic Open Sport
Mavic Open Pro
Mavic MA2
DT Swiss RR1.1 /RR465
Bontrager Race X-Lite
Ambrosio Excellence
H+SON Archetype
Rigida Chrina
Nisi Mixer
Campagnolo Shamal
Fulcrum 5
Fulcrum 7
Campagnolo Proton
Campagnolo Vento
Exal XR2

700c Tyres (New condition)
Largest Diameter to Smallest
(= easiest to fit at the top of the list )
Vredestein Fortezza
Vittoria Open Corsa 23
Panaracer Pasela
Specialized All-Condition Armadillos
Schwalbe Stelvio Folder
Vittoria Rubino Pro
Michelin Pro Race 3
Michelin Krylion 23
Michelin Krylion 25c
Bontrager Hardcase Racelight 28
Bontrager Hardcase Racelight Rigid 23/25
Continental Triathlon
Schwalbe Durano
Schwalbe One Tubeless
Marathon Supreme 32c
Vittorio Rubino
Vittorio Rubino Rigid
Vittoria Zaffiro
Michelin Pro4 Grip V2
Schwalbe Durano +
Schwalbe Marathon
Schwalbe Marathon +
Vittorio Rubino Slick
Continental Gatorskins
Continental GP 4 Seasons
Continental Super Sports
Continental Gran Sport 25
Schwalbe Big Apple (48c)
Contnental Gran Sport 25 Extra

Anyone care to add to the list / change above order ?

tiermat

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Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2011, 09:44:45 am »
That list might be a bit simplistic, at least from my viewpoint, for instance you need to take into account different width of tyres.

FWIW the biggest bitch tyres I have ever found (in a fitting sense) are Schwalbe Big Apple (700C x 48mm).  If you think Marathons and +s are difficult to fix, spend an afternoon trying to fit one of these.
I feel like Captain Kirk, on a brand new planet every day, a little like King Kong on top of the Empire State

Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2011, 09:54:51 am »
The hardest combination in my experience is Michelin Pro Race 2s (23mm) on Campagnolo Proton rims. Utter b*stards to get on and off. I think it's the rims rather than the tyres as they seem OK on other rims....
Those wonderful norks are never far from my thoughts, oh yeah!

marcusjb

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Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2011, 10:01:04 am »
Campag wheels, in general, seem to be the hardest to get tyres onto in my experiences.
Right! What's next?

Ooooh. That sounds like a daft idea.  I am in!

mattc

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Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2011, 10:01:46 am »
The hardest combination in my experience is Michelin Pro Race 2s (23mm) on Campagnolo Proton rims. Utter b*stards to get on and off. I think it's the rims rather than the tyres as they seem OK on other rims....
I 2nd this nomination of Protons for the bottom of the rim list. My old campag 36h wheels ("Mexico"?) are fine.
(I'll also 2nd Gatorskins as near the tight end of the tyre list.)

Michelin Pro race 2s &3s are well above middle.


tiermat makes a good point, but it's all good. I get the feeling the OP was focusing on 23/25mm tyres [the most common on 700c rims]. Do people even have problems with 26".

So sticking
Big Apple (40mm)
at the bottom seems perfectly sensible.
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

tiermat

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Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2011, 10:06:32 am »
I have always found Shimano rims relatively easy to fit tyres to, but have mainly used Conti (Attack/Force, GP4S and GP4000) tyres on them.
I feel like Captain Kirk, on a brand new planet every day, a little like King Kong on top of the Empire State

Biggsy

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Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2011, 10:08:34 am »
Kidjambo, our Michelin man, made this observation (paraphrasing): French tyres are good on French rims, and Italian tyres are good on Italian rims.  "Good" here means not very loose as well as not very tight.  "Italian" or "French" here means where the company is based, rather than where the product is actually made.

I like 'em loose though, as long as not so loose that they blow off, so I use Italian tyres on French rims.

An older version of Vittoria Open Corsa 23 is at the very top of the easy-fitting-but-stays-on-an-Open-Pro list.  Later versions are still easy to fit, as is Vittoria Rubino Pro 25 too.
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Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2011, 10:18:14 am »
The hardest combination in my experience is Michelin Pro Race 2s (23mm) on Campagnolo Proton rims. Utter b*stards to get on and off. I think it's the rims rather than the tyres as they seem OK on other rims....
I 2nd this nomination of Protons for the bottom of the rim list. My old campag 36h wheels ("Mexico"?) are fine.
(I'll also 2nd Gatorskins as near the tight end of the tyre list.)

Michelin Pro race 2s &3s are well above middle.


tiermat makes a good point, but it's all good. I get the feeling the OP was focusing on 23/25mm tyres [the most common on 700c rims]. Do people even have problems with 26".
Continental Sport Contact are difficult to fit to WTB rims.
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Wowbagger

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Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2011, 10:30:13 am »
The hardest job I ever had was fitting Continentals (can't remember precise brand/width) to my son-in-law's Dawes Galaxy (again, can't remember the precise rims). Broke a tyre lever getting them off, and almost depleted my available supply of expletives getting them back on again.
One problem I've experienced with the big, fat tyres I fit to the Thorn is that it's quite hard to get started. A second pair of hands, holding the tyre bead onto the rim, really helps. Once more than half the tyre is done, it holds itself in place, but otherwise you end up chasing your tail for quite a while.
Oh, Bach without any doubt. Bach every time for me.

Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2011, 10:35:30 am »
Getting difficult tyres on the toestrap or two thing is good.

Rhys W

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Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2011, 11:27:07 am »
This doesn't take into account manufacturing tolerances as the extrusion mould for the rim wears - towards the end of it's life the rim's cross section will be larger than that from a fresh mould. Then you have similar variation in tyre beads...

I've always found exceptions to these "rules". I recently bought a pair of Campagnolo Ventos from a clubmate and I was dreading trying to get Gatorskins on them, but they slipped on without putting up any kind of fight.

Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2011, 11:48:58 am »
I don't really expect we can ever generate a ranking that everyone will agree on .... certainly no hard and fast "rules".   And as Rhys suggests manufacturing tolerances can change over time.

Despite that I think some kind of collected knowledge base might be "a good thing".   If we pool everyone's experience then hopefully we'll get to something approaching consensus.

For the moment I'm just thinking about 700c - in all widths, although I too have had "issues" with fitting 26" Conti Sport Contact to a friend's commuter.

I've added the comments received so far, (and a few more dredged from the memory banks)  to the OP.

Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #12 on: November 01, 2011, 12:06:47 pm »
I may contribute more to this thread after the evening I have planned, wrangling Marathon Plus 32s onto a couple of tandem wheels. I have everything ready:

1. Beer
2. Zip ties
3. Plasters
4. Temporary suspension of The Swear Box
5. Beer

Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2011, 01:12:03 pm »
Just to add to the knowledge base, I've always found Vredestein Fortezza (700 x23) very easy to get on to Mavic Open Pros or on to Bontrager Race X-Lite.

I've also found Conti GP 4 Seasons (25c) a pig to fit onto Open Pros.

mattc

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Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2011, 01:16:07 pm »
Despite that I think some kind of collected knowledge base might be "a good thing".   If we pool everyone's experience then hopefully we'll get to something approaching consensus.

Agreed.

(And perhaps the 26"ers could start another thread? I've never had a problem with 26" tyres - although I only use 1.75"+ - so I shan't be doing it!)
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
No.11  Because of the great host of those who dislike the least appearance of "swank " when they travel the roads and lanes. - From Kuklos' 39 Articles

sletti

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Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #15 on: November 01, 2011, 03:57:11 pm »
Vittoria Zaffiro tyres are the work of Satan.  Maybe not so much a diameter issue as a lack of flexibilty in the carcass but an absolute bastard none the less.

And in the good old days, getting anything onto a Nisi Mixer rim. I invented two new word then; twunt and fugger because the usual language seemed somehow inadequate.

I think poorly fitting tyres are probably more stressful than anything else for the home mechanic.
"Stig", as in "A Stig", not "The Stig".

Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #16 on: November 01, 2011, 04:14:04 pm »
If you think those are hard, try some Durano plus onto the same rim.

I could fit zaffiro pro slicks to my chrina rim without levers.

The durano plus took 2 cable ties and 2 levers to get it on.  Plus swearing and a strained and blistered thumb.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #17 on: November 01, 2011, 04:20:37 pm »
I keep adding the "new entries" to the OP, but increasingly difficult to know exactly where in the ranking to put them (unless of course people are kind enough to provide comparisons with ones that are already there.

So - please check back and don't hesitate to suggest moving things up or down.

Kim

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Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #18 on: November 01, 2011, 04:31:02 pm »
I think the only way this is going to work, beyond a collection of known-good and known-bad combinations, is if we get everyone together with an assortment of wheels and tyres and try all the combinations, in the style of the now legendary light testing session.

I suspect the effort would be better spent doing some more light testing.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

vorsprung

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Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #19 on: November 01, 2011, 04:34:27 pm »
Since I've discovered the shoe trick, levering the outside of the tyre with your shoe, I've not had any extended swearing sessions with any tyre/rim.

I used to
1) have a problem fitting a tyre to a rim
2) use a tyre lever to get it on
3) get the tyre on
4) pump it up only to find a pinch flat caused by 2)

I've repeated steps 2 to 4 about five times on one tyre, can't remember what.  This doesn't happen now because I don't use tyre levers for fitting
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Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #20 on: November 01, 2011, 04:38:36 pm »
Panaracer Paselas

Put them above the Rubino Pro. they might even be the easiest of all, but I can compare them to the Rubino pro
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Kim

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Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #21 on: November 01, 2011, 04:41:49 pm »
I really must make a proper effort to work out how to do the shoe trick at some point.  And then teach it to barakta.
To ride the Windcheetah, first, you must embrace the cantilever...

Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #22 on: November 01, 2011, 04:47:38 pm »
I've not found Gatorskins particularly hard, but I've only put them on Mavic rims - old MA2s, Open Pros, & whatever my old Roberts had (I can't remember - Woofage, what are they?).

The Continental Super Sport was a right bugger, though. I was close to weeping once after a long solitary roadside battle to get a 25mm Super Sport onto the same MA2 rim that I later thought a Gatorskin was a doddle (comparatively) to get on & off of. Bruises, grazes, etc. I've broken tyre levers on them.

I must admit to owning & using a VAR tyre tool nowadays, bought because of past troubles. It is wonderful.

MTB tyres are mostly a piece of piss, but beware road slicks. I have a pair of old Michelin 26 x 1.5" tyres which will never again go on my MTB, because I can't face the pain. Mrs B's rims are easier, but they're still a nightmare. Her current Conti Double Fighters (26 x 1.95) slip on both her Bontrager & my rims easy as something well lubricated & stretchy, as do her old Conti Mountain Kings (26 x 2.2). In fact, I think the Mountain Kings are a little loose.
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Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #23 on: November 01, 2011, 04:51:41 pm »
I'm not familiar with the "shoe trick"...

Care to enlighten us Vorsprung ?

Re: Difficulty in installing tyres?
« Reply #24 on: November 01, 2011, 05:04:36 pm »
I think the only way this is going to work, beyond a collection of known-good and known-bad combinations, is if we get everyone together with an assortment of wheels and tyres and try all the combinations, in the style of the now legendary light testing session.

I suspect the effort would be better spent doing some more light testing.

More light testing would be great, but the point here is much more along the lines of...for a future reader of this thread..... I've got a rim that's thought to be at the "harder end" of the scale.... therefore I might be wise to choose (if I have a choice) a tyre at the "easier" end of the scale.

Of course if KidJambo would sponsor some entirely independent and unbiased testing.... ;D