Author Topic: 32 or 36  (Read 4761 times)

32 or 36
« on: November 14, 2011, 10:38:45 am »
I'm in a bit of a pickle. I'm in the process of ordering my xmas pressie from the lovely Mrs H ;D. New wheels to replace the ones I trashed during my altercation with a mountain pony in the summer. I'm going to bite the bullet and order handbuilt with a dynamo hub as I'm increasing my distances on Audaxes, Don't know if I should go for 32 or 36 spokes. I'll be running 25mm gatoreskins on an alu framed road bike, possibly put them on my Dawes Horizon with 28mm as well for light touring with my lovely wife. I assume 36 is for larger loads ( which I won't be carrying) but being pretty (not as pretty as Mrs H)new to this thought I'd ask
Cheers
Hammerman
"Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride." - John F. Kennedy

Euan Uzami

Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2011, 10:43:05 am »
Don't think it'd make that much difference either way. The general received wisdom is 36 if going for full panniers, 32 if not, but they probably won't break if you use full panniers on 32, and won't be too heavy if you use 36 and don't (as my own rear wheel built by my good self isn't).
I'd say it's enough of a muchness to base your decision on what hub/rim your preferred shop happens to have in stock.

Biggsy

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Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2011, 10:44:54 am »
Many cyclists here will say "32 will be fine".  I don't say it won't be fine, but 36 is even more likely to be fine.  36 makes sense for non-racing, in my opinion, even for a light rider on an unloaded bike.

The 4 spokes of extra insurance per wheel cost very little indeed in terms of money, weight and aero drag.  So for me it's a question of "why not?".  Then you might say "why not 40?".  Well, 40h hubs and rims are much more scarce.

A good compromise is 32 front, 36 rear.  Modern highly dished rear wheels are nearly effectively relying on only half the spokes to take most of the strain.  18 spokes is not a lot, is it?  A greater number of spokes also makes it easier to true a wheel with a broken spoke.  This is important in a frame with little clearance.

I speak as someone who replaced alloy bottle cage bolts for nylon ones to save weight.  :)
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Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2011, 10:45:21 am »
Both: 32 front, 36 rear.

Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2011, 10:49:34 am »
36h builds a stronger wheel (see Sheldon on the subject).  The difference in feel between 32h and 36h wheels which are otherwise identical is indistinguishable IME. 

I'd decide according to what components are available in 32h and 36h configurations. 

(cross posted with three different people, I must be right! :P)

frankly frankie

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Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2011, 10:56:02 am »
Well, 40h hubs and rims are much more scarce.

If you do find some you've got the makings of a nice 20-spoke wheel  ;)
"This is a complex subject, with a need for more than one highlighter pen."

Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2011, 11:06:01 am »
I went through the same decision process a while ago ... http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=47280
and yes, I ended up with 32/36 also.

I was (and remain) unconvinced by the arguments for plain gauge spokes on the drive side/butted NDS.    I used butted throughout, but by way of experimentation I decided to build the front and NDS as 2X and the DS as 3X.  With the Hope Pro 3 hubs I used, this means I can carry a single length of spare spoke as all purpose replacement.... not that I've ever broken a spoke yet on any of my handbuilt wheels.

Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2011, 11:12:50 am »
I went through the same decision process a while ago ... http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=47280
and yes, I ended up with 32/36 also.

I was (and remain) unconvinced by the arguments for plain gauge spokes on the drive side/butted NDS.    I used butted throughout, but by way of experimentation I decided to build the front and NDS as 2X and the DS as 3X.  With the Hope Pro 3 hubs I used, this means I can carry a single length of spare spoke as all purpose replacement.... not that I've ever broken a spoke yet on any of my handbuilt wheels.

Ooo. That's rather elegant.
Rust never sleeps

Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2011, 12:19:00 pm »
What Biggsy said.


valkyrie

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Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2011, 12:26:32 pm »
I weigh about 86kg and on my main audax bike I've got Open Pros on Shimano Dynohub front and Hope rear hubs. 32 on the front, 36 on the back. I've gone at least 10,000 miles on the front, which is now on its second rim, but never had any problems with the spokes. Quite happy with 32/36, but if I was forced to change I'd be more likely to go 32/32 than 36/36. My other bike has factory wheels with 22/24 spokes and very light rims and I've never had any problems with them either.
World Class Excuses for Piss-Poor Performances

Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2011, 12:30:22 pm »
I went through the same decision process a while ago ... http://yacf.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=47280
and yes, I ended up with 32/36 also.

I was (and remain) unconvinced by the arguments for plain gauge spokes on the drive side/butted NDS.    I used butted throughout, but by way of experimentation I decided to build the front and NDS as 2X and the DS as 3X.  With the Hope Pro 3 hubs I used, this means I can carry a single length of spare spoke as all purpose replacement.... not that I've ever broken a spoke yet on any of my handbuilt wheels.

Ooo. That's rather elegant.
Indeed, but perhaps of practical use only if you carry a cassette removal tool?

Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2011, 02:32:51 pm »
Indeed, but perhaps of practical use only if you carry a cassette removal tool?
Not difficult

Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2011, 04:12:25 pm »
Indeed, but perhaps of practical use only if you carry a cassette removal tool?
Not difficult

True - but the NBT is Shimano only, and I'm running Campag   :facepalm:

The Mechanic

Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2011, 04:13:26 pm »
I have 32 front (dynohub) and 36 rear as recommended by Big Al.  I weigh 82kg (down from 89kg at the time of building the wheels)

I have recently built  a new front wheel myself, first ever wheel build, and that is 32 also.  Next up is for me to build a rear wheel but I propose to use 36 spokes for that.  I have noticed, however, that some notable web based retailers charge significantly more for a 36 hole 105 hub than for a 32 hole.  Is this blatant profiteering?

Biggsy

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Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2011, 04:14:58 pm »
I have noticed, however, that some notable web based retailers charge significantly more for a 36 hole 105 hub than for a 32 hole.  Is this blatant profiteering?

Not if it's costing them more because its less popular.
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Blodwyn Pig

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Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2011, 05:18:45 pm »
Both: 32 front, 36 rear.

wat he said :thumbsup:

Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #16 on: November 15, 2011, 12:11:11 pm »
Another vote for 32 front 36 rear.

On my audax bike I built a 36 rear on an XTR hub and the front on a Shimano dynohub. Although admittedly not planned, the spoke lengths front and rear are near as dam it the same and I only carry one length of spare!


“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.” ― Albert Einstein

Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2011, 07:57:46 am »
I use 28F 32R on my Audax bike. Open pros on front SON delux and rear DA7700. I'm 75kg and been running 28 spoke front wheels for years. IMHO 32 spokes an overkill for a front wheel for my weight - I can't ever remember breaking a front spoke. 
I build my own wheels - the front is built 2X with sapim race spokes and brass nips, the rear is 2x on the drive side and 3x on the non drive side (to even the tension out slightly) again with sapim race and brass nips.

Whatever spoke count you choose I'd always try to go for less spokes on the front. A bike with the same spoke count front and rear has either an overbuilt front wheel or a too weak rear.
Eddington: 107 Miles

Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2011, 10:43:27 pm »
the rear is 2x on the drive side and 3x on the non drive side (to even the tension out slightly) again with sapim race and brass nips.



I'm glad I'm not the only one! I find that combination a puzzle to start lacing, though.

Biggsy

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Re: 32 or 36
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2011, 10:47:38 pm »
Compared to 3x, 2x also saves weight and aero drag (albeit only enough to matter psychologically).  It seems to be fine for my 32h front wheel as well.
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