Author Topic: Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?  (Read 21435 times)

Hi all, and happy new year.

I wonder if anyone would care to chime in on their experiences with non-meat diets, whole and raw foods? I'm doing some reading and thinking about this at the moment with a view to reducing my meat intake, especially red meat.

Motivation is a combination of things, but mostly personal health and wellbeing. Environmental concerns are a small factor, and the animal ethics debates much less so (sorry).

I've been off alchohol, and coffee for the last 2 years, and removed almost all simple carbs from my diet. This has resulted in good things for waistline and mood stabilization, and helped with getting a 1000km on the scoreboard for running in 2011, in addition to my cycling. So, I'm looking to go to the next level, which I reckon is reduced animal fats and proteins.

Thoughts?

Cheers
Mark

>> Thoughts?

It's probably quite  a good idea, long-term studies tend to show that diets lower in meat, especially red meat, reduce the risk of all sorts of things like high blood pressure, certain cancers, etc.

You will find some people saying you won't get enough protein (probably not on here, but it is a widely-held concern). Ignore them. Most people on a typical western diet eat far more protein than is necessary. People doing endurance sports need a little more than the minimum and for strength events a little more still. But when you do endurance events you eat a far larger amount of food so there's still no need to worry. A guesstimate looking at participants in longer audaxes there seem to be a higher percentage of veggies than the general population.

I would suggest a gradual approach - cut out one meat dish a week, then another, as you build up a stock of different meals you like. When people go 100% veggie or vegan overnight they often either end up with a limited range of set meals because they don't know what to cook, or they substitute lots of cheese or other high-fat things for meat in their normal meals. While more raw foods/fruit would be beneficial to most people, if you intend to go 100% fruitarian or raw diet, you'll need to find some sensible nutrition advice buried in amongst all the "alternative" literature some of which is quite simply barking. But there's no reason anyone can't get a proper balanced diet that way if knowlegable, even for endurance sports.
Quote from: tiermat
that's not science, it's semantics.

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Get yourself some decent veggie cookbooks and try not to think of meat as what you base a meal around with everything else as accompaniments. A good veggie diet isn't about taking away the roast and replacing it with a lump of cheese (or even tofu  :sick:). When I was a teenager the advice used to be that you had to have two types of veggie protein with every meal - lentils and rice, peas and beans etc but now the thinking is that as long as you have a variety of types of vegetable protein across your diet as a whole, it's ok.

If you want to try the meat replacements, some of the Quorn products are ok but can give some people stomach problems. I don't like much Quorn, but I do quite like the ham. I've never been a fan of the textured vegetable protein stuff but it can make a convincing spaghetti bolognaise.

My experience is that vegetarianism is easy, veganism much less so. I've never considered veganism because I'm just not prepared to make that much effort, or to be that limited in options for eating away from home. And fruitarianism just seems unhealthily extreme to me, although I did once have a fruitarian as a patient and she was about [comedy exaggeration] 200 years old [/comedy exaggeration] so it obviously wasn't harming her.

As an example of what I eat, for dinners since we came back here after Christmas, bobb and I have had pilaf on Thursday, (rice, peas and nuts cooked with spices and stock - he loves it), spaghetti with leeks and blue cheese on Friday, (while the spaghetti is cooking, cook one sliced leek per person in olive oil and a few minutes before the spaghetti is cooked, stir into the leeks 35g dolcelatte and 50g Philadelphia per person), last night we went out for a curry, but if we'd stayed in we'd have had potato & aubergine curry with brown rice made by me, tonight we're having butternut squash and goat cheese lasagne, tomorrow we're having aubergine and chickpea tagine with brown rice (tagine has lots of peppers, a leek, an aubergine and two tins tomatoes in it, and the chickpeas and rice add protein) and on Tuesday we're having a brown lentil stew which sounds minging but is very tasty. It's more or less chop an onion and put it in a pan of water with bouillon powder or a stock cube, bring it to the boil, add chopped potatoes, sweet potato, butternut squash, carrots and brown lentils, cook till the lentils are soft, add watercress, peas, tamari and dill, cook a bit longer, eat. For lunch the other day I did a very tasty warm green lentil salad with rocket, goat cheese and walnuts and I think we'll have that again today as there is rocket and goat cheese to be eaten. Sometimes I do risotto, sometimes I do barley casserole. Sometimes I just get a Tesco veggie pizza and add lots more veg and an egg. During the working week, in winter I make soups and freeze them in portions and take them in for lunch, with oatcakes and hummus or peanut butter or a cheese sandwich, and in summer I make different salads - barley & avocado, tabbouleh, Greek salad etc.

Good cookbooks are Cranks, Linda McCartney, the Hamlyn all colour vegetarian cookbook, Delia's vegetarian collection, various curry books and the New Covent Garden soup company books.

My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


I reckon Kirst has covered it.

Two things I would say; you may well end up eating more rice - buy good quality brown. It's a heck of a lot better than the part-processed pap sold in most supermarkets.  The other thing is to look at Indian food - a lot of that is based on vegetarian dishes.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

If you don't already do so then cook meals from scratch and frequent your local market.
If you end up buying solely from supermarkets you will miss out on some of the other benefits of cutting down on meat:

-It can be a lot cheaper
-The mental challenge of working out how on earth you are going to use the 2 kg box of mushrooms you have just bought because the stall holder has reduced them to £1.50 at the end of the day.

(I appreciate that time and location may mean you have little choice in where you shop though)

Good luck.

Julian

  • samoture
I'm not vegetarian but I don't eat much meat - I'll cook some if meat-eaters are coming round, but mostly I'll eat veggie 'cos Charlotte's veggie, and because I prefer to have it as a treat than all the time. 

I tried veganism and lasted six months.  I found that it was not compatible with having a busy life - I didn't realise how much I relied on being able to 'just grab something' while I was out, and it's quite hard to find vegan snacks when out and about.  This was in 2002; it might be easier now.  But even crisps can contain dried milk powder, and some varieties of shop-bought bread aren't vegan, and suddenly a day out with friends becomes a mission for which you have to prepare, and take tupperware boxes everywhere you go, and going for a pub lunch becomes a trauma rather than a fun way to spend an afternoon. 

Veggie food is easy to prepare and easy(ish) to find when you're out, although the veggie options can be uninspired. 

I quite like the meat-replacement things as a last resort if I haven't got long to cook: veggie sausages, fish-less fingers, and quorn scotch eggs are lovely.  However, if you see something that describes itself as a porkless pie, use it only in hand-to-hand combat.  It is not a food product.

Easy dinner options are: rice-based food like risotto or savoury rice, pasta or gnocchi, stir-fry, pad thai, things like that.  If I've got a bit longer, there's an amazing Delia nut roast, or any number of curries. 

If you're doing it for health reasons rather than animal ones, would you still include fish?  AIUI fish oils are relatively good for you.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
I am neither vegan nor veggie and seldom bother to weigh myself, though I have battled the bulge in the past.
It seems you are trying toshift some reluctant weight. Some vegan foods are helpful, some need much effort to prepare and eat and this effort could limita tendecy to overeat.
Vegetable oil is acceptable to vegans but contains 9 Calories per gram; more than any other foodstuff you can buy. Being animal-free will not give magic slimming properties.
Peanut butter contains more than 6 Calories per gram. You have been warned!

seraphina

First post so be gentle ;)

I'm a lifelong vegetarian - my parents were vegetarian, although now they occasionally eat meat. For an active person, a vegetarian diet is fine. My dad ran for his country whilst 100% vegetarian.

Kirst has it covered, although I'd also recommend the latest Hugh Fernglingy-Whatsit book, Veg Everyday. The recipes in that make standalone meals - many vegetarian recipes in mainstream books are a nutritional disaster zone. As for eating out, if I have a choice I stay away from "traditional" UK-style foods - they'll either be covered in cheese or just carbs. Italian, Indian and other eastern cuisines are far more vegetarian friendly.

Hellymedic makes an excellent point -it can be difficult to get quality vegetarian protein without consuming a larger amount of calories than one would with a meat equivalent. However, it's never difficult to get a pint of skimmed milk into you, or some eggs, for example, if you need protein.

Having seen the price of (good quality) meat lately, it's certainly cheaper. If you wind up eating a lot of pulses, consider investing in a pressure cooker - they make cooking dried pulses a doddle and save a fortune on gas.

The three things that have made being a veggie (>10 years) easy are a slow cooker, a student veggie cookbook, and the rosie elliott mother, baby & toddler book (both kids have been veggie since birth). I'm not a vegan, but I avoid drinking milk. I much prefer soya, but it has to be a nice one. For me that means one that tastes like the tescos sweetened one in a blue pack. Not one that tastes of beans in water (any unsweetened one) or like melted vanilla ice cream (eg alpro life).

Taste is a personal thing; I find Alpro unsweetened fine, though I uesli have it on muesli.

Re: Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?
« Reply #10 on: 01 January, 2012, 04:15:21 pm »
I've been veggie most of my life and vegan the last 3 years.

Being vegetarian is easy, there are loads of options for eating out and most people know vegetarians and don't have a problem catering for them (in the UK that is). As mentioned above it is a bit too easy to replace unhealthy meat with unhealthy dairy and not ending up any better off.

I'd disagree that there is much risk of becoming a fat vegan, we are mostly a scrawny bunch (though a couple of exceptions have just popped into my head). I concentrate more on running than cycling now but I do supplement with protein powders (hemp) and of course vitamin B12 as well as eating as much as I want so long as it doesn't contain animal produce. I'm believe I'm healthier for being vegan but in part this is due to being forced to consider what I eat more closely, for instance I know I may not get enough iron and don't like cabbage so make the decision to eat loads of apricots and dates and spinach.

Some people seem to thrive on low fat raw vegan/fruitarian diets but I don't think it would work for me, my stomachs nearly 50 now and doesn't like too much change. I like veggie burger and chips I do. Watch out for those who think LFRV is a religion rather than a diet and try and blame all your dietary problems on that packet of crisps you succumbed to. That said there are some very accomplished and healthy fruitarian athletes.

I'm a vegan because I want to minimise the amount of suffering animals endure and step away from treating animals as commodities. I wouldn't go veggie or vegan just for health reasons, without the moral and ethical factors it may well be just as healthy to eat a dead fish as to get your omegas etc from rapeseed oil or hemp etc.

Here are Ha and Freelee, big LFRV 811 diet advocates and operators of the 30bannansaday website, looking ridiculously healthy.



Nik
The lights were red, his brain was small - he hardly felt a thing at all.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?
« Reply #11 on: 01 January, 2012, 04:18:53 pm »
If you wind up eating a lot of pulses, consider investing in a pressure cooker - they make cooking dried pulses a doddle and save a fortune on gas.
I thought a veggie diet made more gas.

IGMC.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Gandalf

  • Each snowflake in an avalanche pleads not guilty
Re: Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?
« Reply #12 on: 01 January, 2012, 05:01:28 pm »
A bit late to the party on this one and not much to add really.

I turned vegetarian 25 years ago and vegan 4.5 years ago. I disagree about vegans being slim by default, calories come in all forms.  I'm currently going to Slimming World, though cycling does help.

If eating out on a regular basis is important to you then you will struggle, I've pretty much given up. As Julian says, what should be a pleasure becomes a traumatic PITA.  There seems to be an unwritten law which decrees that any meals which  omit bits of dead animal have to be compensated with eggs and lashings of dairy. When the rest of the family scuttle off to the Harvester or some other uninspiring chain I stay at home....I'm struggling to see a negative in that though. The reaction you will get from the catering trade will be at best indifference and at worst unalloyed rudeness and indifference.....sod em, I'll spend my money elsewhere.

In terms of barriers and irritants I'd say the worse thing to cope with is the reaction you get from non vegans.  This will range from unsolicited and inaccurate nutritional advice through to aggressive and adversarial cross examination.

My only regret about being vegan is not having done so sooner.

Re: Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?
« Reply #13 on: 01 January, 2012, 09:54:36 pm »
I was veggie for 10 years and vegan for 6 months. I didn't lose any weight at all when I was vegan :-\ and one of my reasons for starting to eat meat again is that it is easier to diet when you eat meat. I don't eat fish and never have. My mother is a life-long vegetarian (she had a vegetarian ration book in the war) so it was always an option at home.

My compromise now is that we never have meat at home (clarion is veggie) and I only really eat meat if the veggie option is disgusting when we are out, or occasionally to prove to my charges that I'm not trying to poison them. I don't eat any meat apart from chicken, beef or posh sausages and sometimes go without any at all for months. Not being a fan of curry, mushrooms, blue cheese, goats cheese or rice tends to scupper a lot of veggie options when we are out, although the fad for everything having a wodge of goats cheese in it has passed a bit, fortunately ::-).
Quote from: Kim
^ This woman knows what she's talking about.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?
« Reply #14 on: 01 January, 2012, 10:01:18 pm »
I am veggie - have been since 1984 (one thing I can thank Thatcher for (yes, it was her fault), from when I was too poverty stricken to afford meat).  I turned vegan in 1990, but it only lasted to early 1993, because I gained a son.  Both boys were brought up eating a variety of foods, but TGL has been a vegetarian for about eighteen months now.  Our Kid loves eating meat, but he is quite happy having meals without.

It is difficult trying to cook a variety of balanced veggie meals when we all have different likes/dislikes.  But we manage.  It's best when we have the energy to cook (and I'd say it's hard being a vegan if you don't cook each time), but sometimes we are a bit lazy.  I probably eat too many eggs, and certainly too much cheese and bread :-[  But it is possible to arrange it that you are more organised about food than me.

Turning veggie is one of the best things I did.  From an ethical, health, environmental, political, spiritual, and, yes, gastronomic, point of view it seems like the only real option for a way forward.
Getting there...

Re: Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?
« Reply #15 on: 02 January, 2012, 09:02:10 am »
.... I disagree about vegans being slim by default, calories come in all forms.  I'm currently going to Slimming World, though cycling does help.


Agreed that wasn't a very well thought out comment of mine - almost all the vegans I know/see pictures of are very active runners so comparing them with the average chubby bod in the Co-op (who might be a vegan anyway fro all I know) isn't very scientific.

For me though I lost a stone, 10% of my body weight, in my first 2 months of being vegan and had to concentrate on stuffing my face to get sufficient calories for my activity level. I've long since stabilised around 9st 10lb which is about where I want to be but should I start marathon training or riding silly distances I'll need to deliberately up the daily calories.
The lights were red, his brain was small - he hardly felt a thing at all.

Re: Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?
« Reply #16 on: 02 January, 2012, 10:19:31 am »
Thanks everyone, there is a lot of useful advice here, in particular the common sense of taking it slowly, and replacing things gradually. Overall the message seems pretty consistent - changing can be hard from a convenience and social standpoint (depending on whether veg or vegan), but that generally it's worthwhile. It also seems that there is enough anecdotal evidence that cyclists and runners can benefit from this sort of diet.

I also particularly like Clarion's comment:

Quote
Turning veggie is one of the best things I did.  From an ethical, health, environmental, political, spiritual, and, yes, gastronomic, point of view it seems like the only real option for a way forward.

So, I'll keep reading and start slow. Having been doing a low GI / slow carb approach for the last year or so, I'm a bit wary about jumping into eating lots of bannanas and stuff with lots of fructose, that will spike my insulin levels. I guess the associated fibre helps with this?

If anyone is interested, I'm reading the 'Engine 2 Diet' book at the moment, which is basically a mostly raw and completely vegan approach, apparently used by Lance Armstrong from time to time. I'm ambivalent about dairy at this point, so need to ponder that.

Cheers,
Mark



clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?
« Reply #17 on: 02 January, 2012, 10:38:17 am »
Mark, I was thinking that comment of mine was probably a bit evangelical. ;D. But, if it resonates with you, that's fine. :).

As others have said, its perfectly possible to have a mixed diet with lower meat content.

Whatever you decide, hope you have a happy 2012
Getting there...

Re: Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?
« Reply #18 on: 02 January, 2012, 05:31:08 pm »
My family was a vegetarian one in the 80s. My sister kept it up for another 20 years until advised that her iron level was such that she could take iron tablets or start eating meat again.
As you're a bloke, I'd doubt this would be an issue, but it is something women should be aware of. I'd never claim vegetarian/vegan diets make you anaemic, but you can't assume you'll get enough without making an effort.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?
« Reply #19 on: 02 January, 2012, 05:32:21 pm »
I've known veggies who existed on chocolate and chips and were not thin at all.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

mattc

  • n.b. have grown beard since photo taken
    • Didcot Audaxes
Re: Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?
« Reply #20 on: 02 January, 2012, 06:04:29 pm »
I've known veggies who existed on chocolate and chips and were not thin at all.
Crikey! Who would have thought?

Perhaps they were cooked with animal fats?
Has never ridden RAAM
---------
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Cudzoziemiec

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Re: Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?
« Reply #21 on: 02 January, 2012, 07:58:02 pm »
Turning veggie is one of the best things I did.  From an ethical, health, environmental, political, spiritual, and, yes, gastronomic, point of view it seems like the only real option for a way forward.
I'm not sure that it does make much ethical sense to not eat meat and fish but consume other animal products. However, I'm veggie - not vegan - myself, so you might choose to ignore my words of self-acknowledged hypocrisy!

I've known veggies who existed on chocolate and chips and were not thin at all.
You sound as if you've met me!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

CrinklyLion

  • The one with devious, cake-pushing ways....
Re: Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?
« Reply #22 on: 02 January, 2012, 08:13:24 pm »
Indeed.  As I have pointed out several times in the past - cake, chocolate and chips.  Yup, all veggie.

CL
(Veggie for over 30 years, probably the fattest forummer in this place!)

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?
« Reply #23 on: 02 January, 2012, 08:15:31 pm »
Mr R and I are going veggie piscatarian for a few months.  I'm giving up smoking and cutting back on the booze...


You can tell it's New Year, eh...
Quote from: clarion
I completely agree with Reg.

Green Party Councillor

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Vegetarian, vegan, whole foods, fruitarian etc- thoughts and experiences?
« Reply #24 on: 02 January, 2012, 08:34:16 pm »
There's always been something fishy about you...
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.