Gearing for a Touring Bike

[clarion]

Friction shifting on 8spd is pretty easy.  I find it easier than 5, tbh.  I do prefer 7, but I recognise I'd be stuck with other gear choices if I didn't go for 8.

[mark]

How do you find friction shifting on an 8sp cassette? 

Like clarion said, easy. 7 or 8 cog cassettes offer all the gears most people need, more than that strikes me as either a marketing ploy or something that only the better racers will truly benefit from. And yes, I own a road bike with a 10 speed cassette.

[jogler]

I have friction-only downtube shifters on the Longstaff & have no problems at all with them.
AAMOF I've always regarded indexed front mechs as a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

[clarion]

But friction is a solution to the problem they introduce!

[Horizon]

So this is what I am changing to:

Same chainset
Sram 10 speed cassette 11-32
Same rear mech
Ultegra 10 speed 6703 front mech
Ultegra STI 6703 10 speed

I hope it all works.  The bike is in dry dock as we speak whilst I change the stuff over.  Hope to have it working tonight.

Be interested to hear of the outcome - thinking of doing something very similar but new build from scratch.

[Kim]

I'd expect it to work with any 8/9spd bar end shifter apart from dura ace

Wait, what?

Is there a subtle cable pull difference between Dura Ace and normal Shimano 9-speed (as would be expected by an XT mech)?

In which case      

I should really get round to fitting those Microshift shifters, see how they perform (AIUI, Dura Ace is the only current option for Shimano 9-speed bar end shifters)

[mattc]

Friction shifting on 8spd is pretty easy.  I find it easier than 5, tbh.

Really?!? Is that because 8sp has all the modern ramps-n-things to ease the shift?

[mark]

Ramps-n-things on the cassette, offset derailleur (the upside down "L" shape of a modern derailleur, as opposed to the old style straight derailleur), better cables that don't stretch as much with age, and better cable housings. Modern cable housings don't compress as much as the older ones, and the Teflon linings let the cable slide more freely.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

The chains shift better too.

[chris n]

Is there a subtle cable pull difference between Dura Ace and normal Shimano 9-speed (as would be expected by an XT mech)?

Only for pre-1997 (8 speed or fewer) shifters: http://sheldonbrown.com/dura-ace.html

[andrew_s]

Bike 1
TA Zephyr with 20/36/46, 11-32 8-speed, bar end shifters, XT rear mech, Suntour XC-Pro front mech
Bike 2
Stronglight Impact with 24/38/48, 11-32 9-speed, 10sp Ergolevers, XT rear mech, Ultegra front mech

I've never really been happy with the Ergolevers (shape of hoods mostly), and I may switch to bar end next time a transmission overhaul comes round

There's no such thing as gearing too low on a touring bike. You may be able to push the bike faster on the flat, but you sure couldn't up the sort of hill you'd use very low gears on

[Viking]

So this is what I am changing to:

Same chainset
Sram 10 speed cassette 11-32
Same rear mech
Ultegra 10 speed 6703 front mech
Ultegra STI 6703 10 speed

I hope it all works.  The bike is in dry dock as we speak whilst I change the stuff over.  Hope to have it working tonight.

Be interested to hear of the outcome - thinking of doing something very similar but new build from scratch.

I finished putting it all together last night and it works!  I still have to do some fine tuning of the rear indexing as it is occasionally not shifting.  Didn't really have time last night as it started to rain and my garage is under renovation so couldn't use my normal workshop space.  I have a couple of observations:

The cable routing thru the shifters is not the easiest to thread.  A little patience needed.  Don't try it when you are desperate for a pee. DAMHIKT
The new front mech (Shimano 6703) was a bit of a problem.  When I adjusted the height of the mech as per the little guide tab, the inside plate caught on the middle ring when I changed into the big ring, thus jamming the chainset.  This was solved by raising the mech so the inner plate cleared the middle ring.  Still shifts OK but the distance between the outer plate and the big ring is now about 4mm.  I have just checked and the tech docs says min 13 tooth difference between big and middle ring.  My chainset is 48/38/24.  The mech is obviously designed for the Ultegra 6703 triple which has 52/39/30 rings.
XT rear mechs without a cable adjuster are a pain in the neck.  Why do they do this?

Just the bar tape to go on tonight and then out for a test ride.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

HK's Moulton uses a Tiagra triple front mech (designed for 11t difference) with a 10t chainring difference. I dremelled off the offending arc of inner cage plate to let the outer cage plate stay nice and low. I expect there isn't enough metal to let you do very much of the same. The Shimano mech works fine with Campag Centaur 10sp Ergo.

[greenmeansgo]

XT rear mechs without a cable adjuster are a pain in the neck.  Why do they do this?

Because they're designed for MTB use, where the barrel adjuster is on the gear shifter - further away from the mud. Maybe your questions was rhetorical, though?

[Bones]

When you had the mtb cassette fitted, did you also change the rear mech for an mtb equivalent one?   A tiagra would struggle with something beyond 28 teeth whereas a shimano mtb mech such as deore would be good for 34 teeth on a larger sprocket.   A deore (or almost any shimano mtb rear mech) will work from a road shifter though the same cannot be said for shimano front mechs.

Yes. when I had the XT crankset fitted I had an XT rear mech fitted. So the bike has Tiagra STIs, a Tiagra front mech, XT crankset and rear mech. This set up worked really well with an 11-27T cassette but has gone to pot with the 11-32 cassette. The indexing in the higher gears just isn't working properly and two very good bike mechanics have not yet been able to sort the problem. However this isn't a major issue as I am going to revert back to the 11-27T cassette for UK cycling and just make sure I am fitter next time a friend persuades me to go the Alps 

After a long discussion with my LBS the new bike is going to have a SRAM drive train. This will be quite experimental and I will post again when I have tried it all out and can let you know whether it has been a success or a complete failure. It is quite different to what I thought I would be doing!

[Viking]

An update on the new 10 speed drive train:

I was out with the CTC for a 55 mile ride on Sunday (in the rain).  The new shifters are much better than the old 6503 ones they replaced.  The lever action is much lighter for both front and rear mechs and the lever shape is a more comfortable shape for me.

I still need to sort out the front mech limits.  I set it up as per the Shimano instructions but still managed to drop the chain on the outside of the big ring on one occasion.  I also discovered that the stop on the Stronglight Impact crank that is supposed to stop the chain going in between the crank and the big ring actually allows a 10 speed chain to get through.  Crank mod called for here.

Rear indexing is still not perfect.  I have a couple of incidences of unwanted shifts under load which I am sure is indexing related. I may have sorted it on the road but need to check on the work stand.  I fitted an adjuster to the XT rear mech which works a treat and gives more indexing adjustment options than just the down tube adjuster. 

Overall I think it is and will be more of, a success.

[frankly frankie]

Bending and bodging when fitting a front mech is pretty much par for the course IME.
'70s bike guru Richard Ballantyne had a phrase for it in his book - "judicious bending".

[greenmeansgo]

Fitting the front mech as low as possible on the downtube is my best tip for non-standard set ups (solved my shifting issue using a Campag mech with Shimano MTB chainset).

[gene hunt]

On my Dawes Horizon I ran a 28/38/48 Stronglight Impact with a 11/28 cassette along with Deore Mechs and shifters.

Switching it back to drops now along with a Sram Apex Compact groupset.

[Viking]

Fitting the front mech as low as possible on the downtube is my best tip for non-standard set ups (solved my shifting issue using a Campag mech with Shimano MTB chainset).

I agree but the new Ultegra front mech 6703)  only caters for a minimum of 13 teeth difference in the big and middle rings.  I only have 10 so had to raise the mech up a bit to stop it fouling the middle ring when changing into the big ring.  Not sure if that was the reason for the chain dropping off but will check it out before the weekend.

[vorsprung]

XT rear mechs without a cable adjuster are a pain in the neck.  Why do they do this?

Because they're designed for MTB use, where the barrel adjuster is on the gear shifter - further away from the mud. Maybe your questions was rhetorical, though?

I agree it is a bit off putting when you are about to set it up and...no adjuster!
The downtube adjuster is equally as effective for small variations in tension during setup though
MTB gear change levers have adjusters at the handlebar end of things

[Marco Stefano]

My 2006-built Hewitt has XT mechs front and back, and with cable adjusters at the rear mech and downtube. Chainwheels are 22/32/44, no idea about rear cassette numbers but the range is large. It also has Veloce 10-speed Ergolevers.

I have no idea how this works together, but it certainly does.

[Bones]

Just back from a 2500 mile, 5 week tour of the UK and I said I would feedback on my experimental drive-chain. I used a SRAM 10 spd, 39/26 double chainset with a 11/36 cassette and bar end shifters. I was cycle camping until the frost/rain got too much so the bike plus luggage weighed about 35 Kg. I started off at 64 Kg and came back at 60 Kg despite eating constantly. This set up gave me low enough gears to tackle everything that came my way. The set up only gave me problems with cable stretch affecting the rear shift several times during the first few hundred miles meaning that at times I couldn't get the bottom two gears but I still got up everything. At about 2000 miles of the bike's life (1800 into the tour), I had to have a new chain and rear cassette which was Shimano and it continued to work perfectly with the SRAM indexed shifters. Despite never having used bar end shifters before I found them very quickly really easy to use, without having to think about it. I didn't run out of gears at the top end due to puny leg problem 

I don't know if people would have expected more life from the chain. It was regularly oiled with Protech but it didn't really get cleaned properly and I used a lot of Sustrans routes with gritty surfaces so must have generated some "grinding paste".

I can echo comments made above about it being better to stay on the bike than push it as on the few occasions when the surface was impossible for cycling walking was well nigh impossible too and a bike that was a joy to ride was much less fun to handle.

[mcshroom]

My vantage was set up with the following: -
2300 front mech
acera rear mech
alivo 42-32-22 chainset
PG-850 11-32 cassette

This all worked with 2303 levers.

I've just got the bike back having had it built round a horizon frame, but they've switched the front mech for a sora (different clamp diameter stopped the 2300 fitting). Assuming the cage doesn't foul on the chainstay I should be able to get the same to work again but I've put the bike away for a bit so haven't checked

I find this range of gears is good for camping touring and gets me up some pretty decent Scottish hills with lots of kit and mcshroom weighing the bike down.

[GrahamG]

On my Dawes Horizon I ran a 28/38/48 Stronglight Impact with a 11/28 cassette along with Deore Mechs and shifters.

Switching it back to drops now along with a Sram Apex Compact groupset.

Thought I'd add, in case you were in need of lower gears, I've swapped my wifes apex compact crank for an MTB double and SRAM mtb front mech - works flawlessly. Feline has the same set up on her audax bike.