Author Topic: Lost Pocedure  (Read 3369 times)

Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #75 on: July 15, 2012, 06:21:00 PM »
If you've got a .gpx of the route, I'd suggest buying something like "Tracklogs" for about £20.
Download the .gpx into Tracklogs. Print off the route on a 1:250,000 and then highlight
with the yellow highlighter. Put it in one of those plastic covers that you can buy from
WH Smiths (50 for about £2.50) and seal the open end.

Therefore, as well as having you .gpx in your Garmin, you'd also have the 1:250,000 route
highlighted on paper. If you get lost, ride on until the next junction. Normally you should
see a road sign with directions left or right to towns or villages. You should be able to use
the map to locate where you are and then get back onto the route.

This works for me. (Only used the map once though, as routesheets are usually good enough).

Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #76 on: July 15, 2012, 06:33:55 PM »
Your awesomeness shames me.  :'(

As it should. Look at the Hall of Fame.
??? No idea what you're bragging about here. I only visit Audax. If there is a shrine to you somewhere on YACF I haven't gone looking for it. I might go looking for the Ignore feature though, because your attitude stinks.

Quote
I got stuck with an unwanted companion on a ride recently. No routesheet, didn't know where he was and was, to put it bluntly, annoying as a thistle in the gusset. Obviously I should have powered off and left him to meander the lanes, meditating on his inadequacy.

Nice to see some people offering good advice above and beyond MTFU.

No, you see you are confusing what happens here on the on-line interwebs and all its "robustness" with what all (or at least most) randoneurs do in the real world. i.e. help clueless newbies.

Helping clueless beginners is what makes Audax so wonderful. I benefitted from it, and I guess you did too.
Ah, I recognise this. It's the old 'internet people aren't real' argument. Cobblers. And that's the real me saying it to the real you. If a 'clueless newbie' (nice choice of words btw, very encouraging and not at all arrogant) wants help and advice they should get it, not sneering condescension. It shouldn't make any difference whether this is online or in the 'real world'.
Valley of the Rocks 200, Chris Bennett 300, Merry Monk 100, Old Roads 300, Bryan Chapman 600

mcshroom

  • 4,683,792,958th person in the world
  • Mushroom
Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #77 on: July 15, 2012, 06:37:06 PM »
If you've got a .gpx of the route, I'd suggest buying something like "Tracklogs" for about £20.
Download the .gpx into Tracklogs. Print off the route on a 1:250,000 and then highlight
with the yellow highlighter. Put it in one of those plastic covers that you can buy from
WH Smiths (50 for about £2.50) and seal the open end.

Therefore, as well as having you .gpx in your Garmin, you'd also have the 1:250,000 route
highlighted on paper. If you get lost, ride on until the next junction. Normally you should
see a road sign with directions left or right to towns or villages. You should be able to use
the map to locate where you are and then get back onto the route.

This works for me. (Only used the map once though, as routesheets are usually good enough).

Use Mapyx Quo and the OS 1:250k map - it's free (they charge for 1:50k tiles but aren't allowed to charge for the 1:250k ones and the software is free to download)
RIDE if you can. WALK if you have to. CRAWL if you must - But DON'T GIVE UP!


slohill

  • onward & upward---if only in years
Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #78 on: July 15, 2012, 06:38:11 PM »

For me, the ONLY way not to take a wrong turn on an audax is by following a track on the garmin

Following a route in follow roads mode is unreliable

Using the routesheet alone is unreliable

Using a combination of routesheet and a route in follow roads mode is unreliable

Using a paper map is unreliable

The ONLY way to be 100% sure you are going the right way is to be following (or heading towards) a track that the garmin itself hasn't calculated.


WTF?

Did I fall into a parallel universe?

This is getting silly. Audax rides do not revolve around Garmin GPS units and routes you have programmed therein.

You enter an event. You get a route sheet. You follow that.

You may struggle to follow the route sheet. But your task is to get to the next control and carry on.

If you consider this too difficult then pick a sport that does not have "audacious" as its heart.

+1
any problems pre-sorted by ripping the appropriate page out of AA road Atlas (2.5 mile/inch is adequate) to get back on track in case of faulty route sheet, last minute roadworks, rotated signposts, etc etc
Organiser of Barmouth Boulevard 200k; Brenig Bach 100k (June 2013); Pistyll Packing Momma200k;Momma's Mountain Views 130K (Sept 2013).  Perms inc "Tour of Berwyns"; Momma's Mountain Views; Brenig Bach

Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #79 on: July 15, 2012, 06:44:20 PM »

For me, the ONLY way not to take a wrong turn on an audax is by following a track on the garmin

Following a route in follow roads mode is unreliable

Using the routesheet alone is unreliable

Using a combination of routesheet and a route in follow roads mode is unreliable

Using a paper map is unreliable

The ONLY way to be 100% sure you are going the right way is to be following (or heading towards) a track that the garmin itself hasn't calculated.


WTF?

Did I fall into a parallel universe?

This is getting silly. Audax rides do not revolve around Garmin GPS units and routes you have programmed therein.

You enter an event. You get a route sheet. You follow that.

You may struggle to follow the route sheet. But your task is to get to the next control and carry on.

If you consider this too difficult then pick a sport that does not have "audacious" as its heart.

If you're ONLY following the routesheet, then the number of instances of taking a wrong turn or having to stop and work out where you are, is proportional to the number of imperfections in the routesheet. Agreed?
So, unless you're claiming that ALL routesheets are 100% perfect, then it would appear that you are suggesting that I make life more difficult for myself by accepting a certain degree of taking a wrong turn, or of having to stop and work out where I am or backtrack. Well sorry, but if I want to make life more difficult or "audacious" for myself, then I'll simply pick a longer / hillier / more remote event, or just more of them, rather than making an easier one harder to do.

Are you citing some moral imperative not to use a gps device, or is there something in the rules I've missed?


But anyhow - notice the first two words: "For me". I'm not going to come on and sycophantically trot out a load of received wisdom, all I can do is describe what works for me - what I personally do if I get lost... if the OP doesn't want to do that he doesn't need to, it's surely about what works for the individual, if that's routesheets, fine, but if that's technology, also fine.


Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #80 on: July 15, 2012, 07:15:33 PM »
Quote
Use Mapyx Quo and the OS 1:250k map - it's free (they charge for 1:50k tiles but aren't allowed to charge for the 1:250k ones and the software is free to download)


Nice to know.

Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #81 on: July 15, 2012, 07:28:21 PM »
Are you citing some moral imperative not to use a gps device

No, no and no.

It makes no difference how you figured out how to get there. The point is you GOT there

vorsprung

  • the path of excess leads to boredom
    • Audaxing
Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #82 on: July 15, 2012, 07:44:27 PM »
For me, the ONLY way not to take a wrong turn on an audax is by following a track on the garmin (or following a route in off-road mode).

You must wonder how us people without Garmins get round.  Or how anyone did rides before GPS was invented
Audaxing Blog follow @vorsprungbike on

Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #83 on: July 15, 2012, 07:53:49 PM »
Are you citing some moral imperative not to use a gps device

No, no and no.

It makes no difference how you figured out how to get there. The point is you GOT there

(psst... before you take exception to my advice you might want to try it out for yourself - you may end up finding it takes you round hills that the routesheet takes you over...when it happened to me I was disappointed to have missed out on the scenery , ymmv...   :-X :-X ;) )

Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #84 on: July 15, 2012, 08:00:02 PM »

For me, the ONLY way not to take a wrong turn on an audax is by following a track on the garmin (or following a route in off-road mode).

^
--  notice the difference ---- V

You must wonder how us people without Garmins get round.  Or how anyone did rides before GPS was invented

Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #85 on: July 15, 2012, 08:16:52 PM »
For me, the ONLY way not to take a wrong turn on an audax is by following a track on the garmin (or following a route in off-road mode).

You must wonder how us people without Garmins get round.  Or how anyone did rides before GPS was invented

 :) well, no - same as I do when I haven't programmed it correctly and fall back on the routesheet. Largely ok, but with the odd wrong turn or head scratching moment. You can get round fine, but if you can eliminate these, why not?

I'm actually genuinely curious as to why anyone wouldn't use a GPS, really! As far as I can tell it can only be either; (a) they can't afford one, (b) they consider it cheating, (c) they have such faith in routesheets or such little faith in Gps devices or their ability to follow the instructions as to how to use them that they genuinely don't feel it would actually help, or (d) they think it would look bad / be too bulky / ruin their bike's nice clean lines (but in a way that a routesheet doesn't...  :-\ )
What other reason could there be?

Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #86 on: July 15, 2012, 08:22:23 PM »
I'm actually genuinely curious as to why anyone wouldn't use a GPS, really! As far as I can tell it can only be either; (a) they can't afford one, (b) they consider it cheating, (c) they have such faith in routesheets or such little faith in Gps devices or their ability to follow the instructions as to how to use them that they genuinely don't feel it would actually help, or (d) they think it would look bad / be too bulky / ruin their bike's nice clean lines (but in a way that a routesheet doesn't...  :-\ )
What other reason could there be?
Perhaps a debate for another thread? Might be interesting.

For me ( ;)) it's because I don't feel the need for one. A routesheet should be plenty to go by (maps and such are for backup, not primary navigation). Also, I kind of resent the way that some bits of tech elbow their way in and demand to be considered essential. FWIW I don't own a mobile phone either. The planet has continued to revolve.*  :smug:

* - Yeah. Posting this on an internet forum. Teh ironyz. Lol.
Valley of the Rocks 200, Chris Bennett 300, Merry Monk 100, Old Roads 300, Bryan Chapman 600

Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #87 on: July 15, 2012, 08:28:47 PM »
I'm actually genuinely curious as to why anyone wouldn't use a GPS, really! As far as I can tell it can only be either; (a) they can't afford one, (b) they consider it cheating, (c) they have such faith in routesheets or such little faith in Gps devices or their ability to follow the instructions as to how to use them that they genuinely don't feel it would actually help, or (d) they think it would look bad / be too bulky / ruin their bike's nice clean lines (but in a way that a routesheet doesn't...  :-\ )
What other reason could there be?
Perhaps a debate for another thread? Might be interesting.

For me ( ;)) it's because I don't feel the need for one. A routesheet should be plenty to go by (maps and such are for backup, not primary navigation). Also, I kind of resent the way that some bits of tech elbow their way in and demand to be considered essential. FWIW I don't own a mobile phone either. The planet has continued to revolve.*  :smug:

* - Yeah. Posting this on an internet forum. Teh ironyz. Lol.

surely that's cutting your own nose to spite garmin's face.  ;)

I know what you mean though, I kind of feel the same about smartphones. But that's no reason not to have one. If their battery life was measured in days rather than hours, I'd put my pride aside and get one because they are useful.

Bairdy

  • I love the smell of Sudocrem in the morning......
Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #88 on: July 15, 2012, 08:35:50 PM »

I did a 200km ride, (I won't say which one.) The sheet was in miles and 5 years out of date.
A Little Chef mentioned on the sheet had been a shop for 4 years. I caught up to 4 riders who'd ridden past it. I had to convince them they'd missed the turn and the Little Chef was no longer there.
A controller got bored and left leaving a few riders in the lurch.
A local cyclist had even gone around the route a few weeks earlier and updated the route sheet but the organiser "hadn't had time" to print them out and send them to the riders.

[/quote
Inexecusable. Did you ask for your money back - after all the route sheet is the main item you pay your money for.

To be fair I have done well north of a 100 audaxes in the UK and I can only say I got rubbish sheets (as opposed to an error or two) about twice. Most organisers put a lot of work into them and probably the majority now offer the GPX track too.

Every other ride I have done has been very well organised.
It was weird, their were plenty of helpers, food laid on etc but the route sheet was terrible and pissed a few people off.
I didn't ask for my money back. Igot round in time, despite the sheet a broken spoke/buckled wheel, broken front light and awful weather.
I just spent a lot of time asking for directions, following road signs and hoping for the best until I managed to get behind two other riders who knew the route.
I now use a route sheet, GPS and I cut pages out of a £1.99 Morrisons road atlas and trace out the route with a highlighter.
Hell bent, hell bent for lycra!

Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #89 on: July 15, 2012, 08:38:23 PM »
surely that's cutting your own nose to spite garmin's face;)

I know what you mean though, I kind of feel the same about smartphones. But that's no reason not to have one. If their battery life was measured in days rather than hours, I'd put my pride aside and get one because they are useful.
What, refusing to spend hundreds of pounds on a thing I can manage without? FWIW I borrowed an Edge 800 for a while. Never found it useful and the battery died part way through a bitterly cold hundred miler.
Valley of the Rocks 200, Chris Bennett 300, Merry Monk 100, Old Roads 300, Bryan Chapman 600

Julian

  • samoture
Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #90 on: July 15, 2012, 08:45:23 PM »
I loved Charlotte's garmin when I borrowed it.  I find it very stressful being lost - it can spoil an otherwise good ride.  Despite the extra X chromosome (;)) I'm good at mapreading and when I've audaxed I've usually, although not always, traced the route on a paper map first.

I suppose if you are an intrepid type who is confident that lost is only temporary, and can enjoy the adventure, a Garmin is just extra pointless kit.  But for me, I am getting one as soon as possible, because I don't like being lost even when I'm a tourist in a foreign city and being lost is the POINT of going away.  Following the Happy Purple Line on the gps frees me up to actually enjoy the ride rather than fret about whether I've missed the next direction.

If that makes me a soft southern shandy drinking nancy girl unworthy of the word audax.... I don't care.  :P

Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #91 on: July 15, 2012, 08:47:45 PM »
surely that's cutting your own nose to spite garmin's face;)

I know what you mean though, I kind of feel the same about smartphones. But that's no reason not to have one. If their battery life was measured in days rather than hours, I'd put my pride aside and get one because they are useful.
What, refusing to spend hundreds of pounds on a thing I can manage without? FWIW I borrowed an Edge 800 for a while. Never found it useful and the battery died part way through a bitterly cold hundred miler.

oh well there you go then, if you had an edge 800 no wonder your opinion of GPSs is tainted ... was talking to somebody on a audax yesterday and he had an 800 and he said they can't even follow tracks??!

Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #92 on: July 15, 2012, 09:00:09 PM »
I got an Etrex, mainly out of curiosity. I use it with tracks, and it's fairly foolproof and can rescue you if you get yourself lost. However, I'm still quite happy to use a routesheet. I've never got unrecoverably lost using one. Gps gives me less sense of place than a routesheet that has placenames to navigate by*.

*Event from Bath to West Bay and back some years before gps units were available. Fellow cyclist looked out over the English Channel saying, "Shouldn't we be able to see Wales from here?"

Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #93 on: July 15, 2012, 09:20:55 PM »
I have more sense of place when I can relate where I am to a map. When I'm somewhere familiar, I have both a memory of what I'll see round the next corner, & an overall picture, derived from maps, of how it relates to other places.

In unfamiliar places, I'm much more comfortable if I have a map, either on paper, a GPS, or one in my head derived from looking at other maps. With one of them, I have a sense of place which names & directions don't give me.

Different people, different brains.
"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" Benjamin Franklin

Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #94 on: July 15, 2012, 09:29:03 PM »
I'm very glad Ibought a GPS. Not just for getting around Audax events, which I find it is very good for if I've done the track right. But also for getting to and from Audax events, or anywhere else for that matter. It's much easier to try new routes to places I often go to without having to stop and look at maps on the way. Instead of main road bashes I can take interesting laney routes without much of a time penalty from stopping to looks at maps and re-planning my route when I go where I never intended to.
Having restaurants, banks, train stations, petrol garages etc etc on the maping is very usefull too. when I want food, I use the search and go to wherever I fancy and it's always easy to get back on track again afterwards
I also really like being able to store the routes on my hard drive for re-use. For many years, I thought it would be good if I kept all my Audax routesheets, but they just got tatty after the event and ended up in the bin. I never liked throwing it away. I could have photocopied it before the ride, but I knew they'd just sit in a pile doing nothing. But with the GPS and GPX files, I can look at where routes go on a map very easily and even look at several at a time, then join sections of routes together and alter it slightly to suit my needs.
I have it in mind to work my way through all my old brevet cards (there are literally hundreds of them, 500 as a guess) and plot the routes into GPX files. Whether I get round to it or not is another thing...
I do agree with Evilchuffy though. If you don't really need one for what sort of cycling you like to do, then it is a lot of money.

I have more sense of place when I can relate where I am to a map.

Me too. When I used routesheets I often just turned up at the start and blindly followed the instructions, not having any clue where I was going. Unless I went the wrong way and had to get the map out.
Just eat, drink & keep bloody pedalling  :thumbsup:

fboab

  • Ketonaut
Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #95 on: July 15, 2012, 10:55:15 PM »
God some of us seem to take it all very seriously.
FFS, we do this for fun. I thought Manotea was channelling Tigerrrrr in his reply, I laughed.
I don't need a procedure for getting lost, just like I don't need a procedure for cleaning my teeth. Sure, I've gone off route. I prefer using routesheets, some of them are crappy, most are pretty good. GPS is ok, but to be honest, I don't always want to spend hours preparing for a ride. Sometimes I just turn up and follow the route without even seeing where the controls are.
What's the worst that can happen?

O, and where does it say you have to encourage new people on audax? I don't remember signing that when I joined. To be honest, if you're not self sufficient enough to get round on your own, perhaps it's not for you?

Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #96 on: July 15, 2012, 11:04:29 PM »
O, and where does it say you have to encourage new people on audax? I don't remember signing that when I joined. To be honest, if you're not self sufficient enough to get round on your own, perhaps it's not for you?
Nothing in the Handbook, but it might just be in the being-a-decent-human-being-guide. Does anyone have a spare copy they can lend?
Valley of the Rocks 200, Chris Bennett 300, Merry Monk 100, Old Roads 300, Bryan Chapman 600

C-3PO

  • Human-cyborg relations
Re: Lost Pocedure
« Reply #97 on: July 15, 2012, 11:06:37 PM »
This thread is, in several places, not excellent. If you wish to offer helpful advice, please do so in the other thread.