Author Topic: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur  (Read 9980 times)

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« on: August 17, 2008, 01:55:26 pm »
The Audax Club Parisien's 1200 km PBP Randonneur is the pinnacle of brevet riding for most of us.  The 5300 starters in 2007 became part of PBP history stretching back to the race's beginning in 1891 and the first PBP brevet in 1931.

Unknown to many riders is the Union des Audax Francais' PBP Audax, also held for the first time in 1931.  Some more details can be found here but the original form of Audax riding (since 1904 in France) involves groups riding together for the full distance to a set schedule.  The now more common randonneur style (free pace between specified maximum and minimum speeds) was only developed in 1921.  The original brevet style is still fairly popular in Belgium, France, Germany, the Netherlands and more recently Sweden.  The USA also held a few UAF brevets in the last 10 years.

Early on, both PBPs took place in the same year.  In 1971, eight Frenchmen rode both PBPs in just over a week and the PBP Randonneur interval was shifted to every four years.

PBP Audax is run every five years and only every two decades are both PBPs held in the same year.  In 2011, it is likely that the two PBPs will take place a few weeks apart in August, an intriguing prospect to some.

To qualify for PBP Audax, riders must complete 200, 300 and 400 (or 600) brevets ratified by the Union des Audax Francais or UAF.  Events ratified by the ACP generally don't count as PBP Audax qualifiers, though in 2011 the UAF will accept ACP brevets.

Hopefully this post will spark some interest amongst British long-distance riders for a slightly different challenge.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2008, 02:20:34 pm »
My wife will be pleased  :-X
#makewattsnotwar

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2008, 02:22:58 pm »
Well, she should know exactly where you are during the event (as long as you keep up with the printed schedule).  ;)
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2008, 02:27:09 pm »
Hopefully this post will spark some interest amongst British long-distance riders for a slightly different challenge.

Since I got interested in Audax, I've always been keen on the idea of doing a "classic" style Audax ride. But I wouldn't know how to go about it. Are there any organised rides in the UK? Do you have to form your own team to enter? Anyone want to be in a team with me? (Seriously - I'm a 10-hours-for-a-200 kind of rider [in good conditions & when fit & route is not too hilly]. Anyone of similar pace interested in getting a team together?)

d.

Really Ancien

Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2008, 02:30:33 pm »
Denise Carroll was talking about this at the Semaine Federale. her first 200 had been to make up the numbers on a UAF ride in the 1970s with some workmates from Portsmouth. It brought up some interesting questions. What is the minimum size for a group? Do they all have to finish? What are the minimum and maximum pace, and do you have to declare them? Do you have to stick to the declared pace? Can you turn up and join a group or do you have to organise your own groups? Just thinking about the organisational difficulties made my head hurt a bit. The idea of a cross between a 1,200 km club run and a Team Time Trial combined with the difficulties of PBP itself is a bit daunting. At least with the ACP PBP you don't have to be constantly thinking about the weakest link. There it's just a case of turn up, start and keep on going.

Damon,

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2008, 02:33:31 pm »
Are there any organised rides in the UK? Do you have to form your own team to enter? Anyone want to be in a team with me? (Seriously - I'm a 10-hours-for-a-200 kind of rider [in good conditions & when fit]. Anyone of similar pace interested in getting a team together?)

d.


Currently there are no UAF-ratified group brevets in the UK but there are some groups that ride normal brevets in an Audax style (ride as a group).  There is nothing stopping you collecting some like-minded friends and doing the same.  If you want to actually ride UAF brevets, you'll have to flip over to the Continent (easier for you than me) or talk AUK into chatting with the UAF.  In Australia, that meant I was deputised to chat with the UAF...
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2008, 02:35:37 pm »
If you want to actually ride UAF brevets, you'll have to flip over to the Continent (easier for you than me)

Mmm, yes, probably quite doable... I'll have to look into it.

So, anyone up for it? Could be a fun experiment.

d.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2008, 02:45:54 pm »
What is the minimum size for a group? Do they all have to finish? What are the minimum and maximum pace, and do you have to declare them? Do you have to stick to the declared pace? Can you turn up and join a group or do you have to organise your own groups? Just thinking about the organisational difficulties made my head hurt a bit. The idea of a cross between a 1,200 km club run and a Team Time Trial combined with the difficulties of PBP itself is a bit daunting. At least with the ACP PBP you don't have to be constantly thinking about the weakest link. There it's just a case of turn up, start and keep on going.

Damon,

I've been researching the UAF rules a bit recently.

You don't organise the group, you just enter with the organiser.

At least 4 riders must start and at least 3 must finish for a UAF brevet to count (you can see where the York Arrow concept came from).  The idea is that everybody rides together.  The Pelotons can contain 50 or more riders, although organisers can appoint more "captain de la route" (sp? i.e. peloton leaders) to reduce the peloton size.

The schedule for the event is published by the organiser, usually 22.5 kph between stops (occasionally 20 or 25 kph).  Night stops are 5-7 hours long, lunch is 1-1.5 hours, the rest are 15-20 minutes.  Meals are usually pre-ordered and waiting on the tables when you arrive.

You don't have to think about the weakest link, that is the peloton leader's hassle.  If they don't finish with the group, they don't officially finish.  There is occasionally more time allowed for major mechanical and physical problems.

You never have to look at a routesheet, that is the peloton leader's problem.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2008, 02:59:26 pm »
Mmm, yes, probably quite doable... I'll have to look into it.

Filter the FFCT calendar for Brevet Audax in various regions or check out the UAF calendar.  The number of events in the UAF calendar seems to fluctuate quite a bit from year to year, the same way the ACP calendar is biggest in PBP years.  In contrast, AUK has lots of rides every year.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Really Ancien

Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2008, 03:01:36 pm »
You don't seem to be allowed to pass the 'Captain' except on the the Col de Galibier where you are allowed to ride Allure Libre, this would seem to be an example to allow leeway on difficult hills. probably to allow climbers to show off, Article 6. So probably on hills other than the Galibier as well. The night stops are described as 'neutralised', are the breaks neutralised too, or do they count towards the average speed? How good are these meals and is there wine?

Damon.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2008, 03:05:22 pm »
The required average speed is between scheduled stops only.  Being French, the food is likely to be good and wine is probably mandatory.

The organiser should chose routes to be of "average hilliness" according to the rules, so allure libre climbing would be rare.  It is standard for peloton leaders to stay at the front of the pack all the time.  Australian peloton leaders may occasionally lead from the rear though.

Quite a few UAF riders do PBP Randonneur, often riding UAF-style in groups.  The UAF Cycling President is Bruno Danielzik, finishing in under 80 hours in 2007.  Luckily for me, he speaks English.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

citoyen

  • Cat 6 Racer
Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2008, 03:05:56 pm »
Cheers for that. The UAF website is awful, very hard to navigate. Seems the last event they've got listed this year is a Paris-Deauville 200 on 6 September, which isn't practical. The FFCT calendar looks like it has lots more options. Great stuff.

d.

Really Ancien

Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2008, 03:13:54 pm »
So on UAF PBP we have a an average speed on the road of 22.5 kph, we stop every 2 hours on average for 20 minutes, we have up to an hour and a half for lunch, which is laid out ready for us, we sleep 6 hours every night. This sounds like a pleasant week's holiday. Where's the misery?

Damon.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2008, 03:20:35 pm »
This sounds like a pleasant week's holiday. Where's the misery?

Damon.

It might rain...
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Really Ancien

Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2008, 03:46:08 pm »
There speaks an Australian, linking the conditional to precipitation.

Damon.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2009, 08:28:25 am »
Just for interest's sake, the UAF have issued a new set of rules (from Nov 2008) that included cute little cartoons that explain the preferred approach to riding and organising a UAF brevet.  It seems that helmets are compulsory for UAF brevets.
http://www.audax-uaf.com/cyclo/telech/pilote.pdf

The UAF calendar includes at least one UAF brevet organised by an expat Brit (John Ewing) and the Australian Audax 22.5 brevets
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

inc

Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2009, 09:44:13 am »

  It seems that helmets are compulsory for UAF brevets.


My French is not great but I think it says helmets are only compulsory for minors and at the discretion of the organiser for others so probably means the same thing.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2010, 09:28:38 pm »
Preliminary information from the Le Forum de l'Union des Audax Français is that there will be two starts for the 2011 PBP Audax, the first around the end of June or the beginning of July.  The second start might be the same week as PBP Randonneur, the last week in August.  More at PBP 2011 : modalités
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Panoramix

  • 50 61 6E 6F 72 61 6D 69 78
  • Suus cuique crepitus bene olet
    • Some routes
Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2010, 09:47:41 pm »

  It seems that helmets are compulsory for UAF brevets.


My French is not great but I think it says helmets are only compulsory for minors and at the discretion of the organiser for others so probably means the same thing.

According to my French it is up to the organiser of the ride!

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2010, 09:19:47 pm »

  It seems that helmets are compulsory for UAF brevets.


My French is not great but I think it says helmets are only compulsory for minors and at the discretion of the organiser for others so probably means the same thing.

According to my French it is up to the organiser of the ride!

Yes, that agrees with inc's translation (my French is woeful).  The few UAF brevets I've looked at on the calendar all say that helmets are compulsory for those events (small sample though).  I'd guess that most French organisers want helmets.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2010, 03:38:04 pm »
There have been several UAF-homologated Audax 22.5 brevets held in Australia over the past year, I've ridden UAF brevets up to 300 km so far and found them a lot of fun.  The medals are worthwhile mementos too.  The UAF calendar has been up for a while, including events in Australia and Brazil.  Bruno Danielzik (the UAF Cycling President) speaks English and is happy to assist foreigners to enter.  The UAF have their own forum, for Francophones of course.

It is likely that at least a couple of AUKs will heading over (more likely under) the English Channel to do 400 km and 1000 km UAF brevets in 2010, prior to attempting PBP Audax in 2011.  Interested in trying the original form of Audaxing?
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Fiona N

Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2010, 05:29:31 pm »
I like the sound of this as the first 300km ride I did was with the Cycle Tourist Association (CTA) of Western Australia from Perth to Bridgtown. It was the first 'big' ride (over their usual 200km events) they organised and was ridden essentially as a 300km Sunday run with everyone sticking together bar a few sprints for the coffee stops. At the time they didn't have Audax Australia 'certification' so it was a bit of a leap in the dark to see whether the interest was there.

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2010, 01:29:03 pm »
The Audax Club Parisien's 1200 km PBP Randonneur is the pinnacle of brevet riding for most of us. The 5300 starters in 2007 became part of PBP history stretching back to the race's beginning in 1891 and the first PBP brevet in 1931.

Unknown to many riders is the Union des Audax Francais's PBP Audax, also held for the first time in 1931. Some more history can be found at A Little History but the original form of Audax riding (since 1904 in France) involves groups riding together for the full distance to a set schedule. The now-common randonneur style (free pace between specified maximum and minimum speeds) was only developed in 1921, following a disagreement between the ACP and Henri Desgrange. The original group brevet style is still fairly popular in Belgium, France, Germany, the Netherlands and more recently in Sweden and Australia. The USA also held a few UAF brevets about 10 years ago.

Early on, both PBPs took place in the same years. In 1971, eight Frenchmen rode both PBPs in just over a week and the PBP Randonneur interval was subsequently shifted to every four years. PBP Audax is still run every five years and it is only every two decades that both PBPs are held in the same year. The prospect of riding two PBPs in 2011 is an intriguing prospect to some cyclists.

The UAF traditionally limits the number of riders in each peloton to avoid over-stretching facilities, often running each peloton at different dates. Next year, the UAF are currently looking at running one peloton simultaneous with PBP Randonneur (the last week of August) and another in July. Several riders in Australia and the UK are interested in riding both PBP Randonneur and PBP Audax but would prefer to ride PBP Audax in early August, to allow riding both PBPs during the one trip without taking excessive leave. UAF Cycling President Bruno Danielzik is happy to organise another Audax start but this requires about 50 riders to justify another start date.  He has asked me to collect expressions of interest from randonneurs interested in taking part in PBP Audax next year and which
date they would prefer.

If you are interested in riding PBP Audax next year, please email pbpaudax@gmail.com with your preferences for riding the 2011 PBP Audax during:
A the first week of August
B the second week of August
C a date in July
D simultaneous with PBP Randonneur

A reply as simple as "B, A, C, D" is fine, as is "A".
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2010, 03:54:17 pm »
The UAF has put up the first information about the 2011 PBP Audax at PBP2011

The likely ride schedule can be found at PBP itinerary.  Interestingly, the total distance is 1147 km, somewhat shorter than the 1230 km or so of PBP Randonneur.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: PBP Audax, not PBP Randonneur
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2010, 09:56:25 am »
And 3 sessions......Now to explain the cost and time to the wife along with two 5 day trips to France  :-X