Yet Another Cycling Forum
General Category => The Knowledge => GPS => Topic started by: Oxford_Guy on 08 May, 2017, 08:31:54 am
-
[I posted this elsewhere, within another thread, but thought this deserves it's own thread]
There's an interesting first look at the Hammerhead Karoo on the excellent DCRainmaker site:
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2017/05/hammerhead-karoo-gps-bike-computer.html
One great thing to note - it's compatible with Garmin mounts :-)
It seems to imply maps are cached, rather than built into the unit - this is a worry, unless you can cache a large area AND specify that area precisely and ask it not to overwrite that cache until you want to
It has 3G connectivity, I hope that doesn't mean you need to have a (separate from your phone paid data plan to use it)
Screen sounds good
Performance (no lag) sounds excellent
I think it's likely to cost *much* more than DC Rainmaker suggests, but I'm still interested.
-
So they've made a smartphone that's sensible (shape, bracket, ruggedness, battery capacity) to mount on a bike.
Seems like a good idea. If they allow the installation (even by sideloading) of arbitrary apps I can see it being popular as a platform for delivery riders.
-
The review says maps can be downloaded via WiFi so no need to rely on phone signal and caching.
-
The review says maps can be downloaded via WiFi so no need to rely on phone signal and caching.
Hopefully will have enough storage (or better, accept microSD cards for storage) to download maps for at least 2 whole large European countries
-
The review says maps can be downloaded via WiFi so no need to rely on phone signal and caching.
Hopefully will have enough storage (or better, accept microSD cards for storage) to download maps for at least 2 whole large European countries
I read the tech specs, it has 16Gb of internal storage (no microSD card slot by the sound of it), but they say that this is enough to store their entire worldwide map, a full suit of apps and lots of ride data, which sounds good: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/mprufleychk5rtz/AAA8NK-USrw42wpwc_Ch98KYa/Karoo%20Features%20%26%20Specs?dl=0&preview=HammerheadKaroo_TechnicalSpecification_Spring2017.pdf
-
I've signed up to their mailing list so we'll see how it pans out. Certainly on paper it ticks the right boxes for me, but proof of the pudding and all that. When they say its been developed and tested by cylists I bet none of it involves four days continuous running, charging from a dynamo and the operator being cold, tired, wet, hungry and the screen covered in dried energy drink and snot...maybe I should volunteer as a beta tester!
-
Interesting, for the next 5 days they're offering special pre-order pricing at $299, which is less than I thought it would be. Normal pre-order pricing will be $399, $499 final retail
I have a link for the special pre-order pricing, PM me if interested.
Am tempted to pre-order one...
-
Jesus that's a tempting price
-
Jesus that's a tempting price
Isn't it? Though need to factor in a likely +20% for VAT and £8 customs fee. Still pretty good for the spec, though, I think.
-
Jesus that's a tempting price
Isn't it? Though need to factor in a likely +20% for VAT and £8 customs fee. Still pretty good for the spec, though, I think.
Plus import duty and then vat on the import duty, I make it about £295 plus the revenue collection fee, which will depend on who delivers it. I've asked them about shipping via Amazon UK but haven't had a reply. The problem with buying direct from the USA is the tedium of having to deal with a return.
-
Jesus that's a tempting price
Isn't it? Though need to factor in a likely +20% for VAT and £8 customs fee. Still pretty good for the spec, though, I think.
Plus import duty and then vat on the import duty, I make it about £295 plus the revenue collection fee, which will depend on who delivers it. I've asked them about shipping via Amazon UK but haven't had a reply. The problem with buying direct from the USA is the tedium of having to deal with a return.
Still cheaper than the Garmin 1000 and looks loads better, though
-
what does the Hammerhead offer that the Garmin Edge 1000 cannot do?
-
A fully functional computer
-
A fully functional computer
speculation at this stage .... not been properly tested and people don't even know what it's going to cost :P
and saying that, I'm very pleased with my Edge 1000 .... I'm using version 12.20 software and it's working like a dream with no problems. You need to know how to set the unit up and what to enable/disable. Those who still have problems using v12.20 software have most probably not set it up properly
I have the heartstrap, cadence sensor, speed sensor, Garmin varia radar unit, and the remote control button
battery life seems ok (I have done a few 7hr rides), but if I need to charge the unit on longer rides, I have a powerbank. I doubt that the Hammerhead will offer as many features as the Edge 1000.
-
A fully functional computer
speculation at this stage .... not been properly tested and people don't even know what it's going to cost :P
and saying that, I'm very pleased with my Edge 1000 .... I'm using version 12.20 software and it's working like a dream with no problems. You need to know how to set the unit up and what to enable/disable. Those who still have problems using v12.20 software have most probably not set it up properly
I have the heartstrap, cadence sensor, speed sensor, Garmin varia radar unit, and the remote control button
battery life seems ok (I have done a few 7hr rides), but if I need to charge the unit on longer rides, I have a powerbank. I doubt that the Hammerhead will offer as many features as the Edge 1000.
They've stated the cost:
$299 for early adopters, $499 on full release
-
A fully functional computer
speculation at this stage .... not been properly tested and people don't even know what it's going to cost :P
and saying that, I'm very pleased with my Edge 1000 .... I'm using version 12.20 software and it's working like a dream with no problems. You need to know how to set the unit up and what to enable/disable. Those who still have problems using v12.20 software have most probably not set it up properly
I have the heartstrap, cadence sensor, speed sensor, Garmin varia radar unit, and the remote control button
battery life seems ok (I have done a few 7hr rides), but if I need to charge the unit on longer rides, I have a powerbank. I doubt that the Hammerhead will offer as many features as the Edge 1000.
They've stated the cost:
$299 for early adopters, $499 on full release
£250-£275 gets you a used Garmin Edge 1000 off ebay in good condition (if you are patient).... I bought my Garmin Edge 1000 with all accesories (excluding the radar unit and the remote control) for £275 off a member from this site
well worth the money.... a few bugs on the earlier versions of software but those have been sorted out now .... still a slight glitch (sometimes), and that is when you get to some intersections/turns, it still assumes that you are a few meters away, so you are not sure which way to turn. That is because I normally have Glosnass switched off, and the unit works on other satelites .... (I think it's the same ones that mobile phones use)
set it up properly (use this link http://www.forgot.co.uk/garmin-edge-navigation/garmin-edge-1000/
but also read all the comments,
and also check the garmin forum: https://forums.garmin.com/forumdisplay.php?464-Edge-1000
get the remote control, and you have no problems at all in the rain when it comes to switching screens (press a button, and it's instant)
Glossnass updates the unit every few seconds, but uses more battery power (that's what I read and assume is correct, so I have switched mine off)
on todays ride of 140km, I had a few instances where this occured, so I switched Glossnass back on, and problem solved
in a nutshell, if I lost my edge 1000, or if it had to break, I would buy another one without hesitation, even if I had to pay full price ....
linked to the radar unit, it makes cycling an absolute pleasure 8)
-
I just got a pre-sale invitation through for a Karoo – $299 (will be $499). I'm sorely tempted after the usual Garmin troubles, but the 'guarantee' has put me off:
"365 +1 day money back guarantee applies to units returned unopened and undamaged in their original packaging"
Never mind the length – look at the "unopened"...
Is anyone else risking it?
-
Is anyone else risking it?
I was tempted at $299 (realistically £300 once VAT, duties etc. added in) but couldn't afford to take the risk on a largely untried (with real world users) device. It wouldn't arrived in time for LEL either so sticking with my basic bike computer and phone for following a track (still haven't decided between RWGPS and OSMand). This time next year I might take the plunge.
-
I just got a pre-sale invitation through for a Karoo – $299 (will be $499). I'm sorely tempted after the usual Garmin troubles, but the 'guarantee' has put me off:
"365 +1 day money back guarantee applies to units returned unopened and undamaged in their original packaging"
Never mind the length – look at the "unopened"...
Is anyone else risking it?
The guarantee has changed, and is now as follows: "Hammerhead offers a 45-day satisfaction guarantee. You may return your Hammerhead product within 45 days of delivery if you are, for any reason, not satisfied with your purchase." You would be liable for postage costs to return the device.
There are some more product videos at https://hammerhead.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=4f879dd730bedad08494dc4c2&id=12ce0be2d5&e=e3efea49df (https://hammerhead.us7.list-manage.com/track/click?u=4f879dd730bedad08494dc4c2&id=12ce0be2d5&e=e3efea49df). Hopefully routes can be transferred to the device using a cable and not just via the airways, as that looked painfully slow in the video.
The first units will be received by customers this month, given that shipping started in November. I'm interested in hearing how the Karoo behaves in the real world, and if the mapping tools are as cycling specific and user friendly as attempted to be portrayed in the videos.
-
First units have arrived in owners' hands. https://www.johnsedlak.com/2017/12/preview-hammerhead-karoo/ and others seem very happy so far, reviews won't be too far away. I have a riding bud who was in the queue early enough to (hopefully) get his Karoo this year. I reckon Feb/March for mine, I ordered late September. I've been very impressed with the honesty and detail regarding design and production the Hammerhead team have shown so far. They lost a few pre-order customers who got fed up with the delays & went back to Garmin, but I wasn't put off, I saw that in more positive terms. If they chose to make improvements and fixes in preproduction that caused delays, better that than just doing it for v2 if at all. Given the problems many Garmin owners have with brand-new devices, let alone ones like my Edge 705 that should have had software issues fixed and didn't, this is rather refreshing.
-
https://blog.hammerhead.io/truth-in-2017-e9be6a8ea977
Wow that is some lying!
-
Rather amateurish. Quite why they chose not to be truthful from the start defeats me. I can't see how trying to get those initial 100 customers to be untruthful was ever going to work in their favour.
So they've been found out and now make a public statement. They have certainly gone down in my eyes.
When their product is properly out and available, this may all wash over.
-
I'm treating it as a 'Kick starter without kick starter' The s/w is bound to be limited and potentially buggy when it eventually arrives - but to be fair, I've paid a lot in the past for similar Garmin experience (which they then fix and then break again on a regular schedule!)
I think Wahoo was similar launch wrt functionality and bugs which they then ironed out over a period of time with user feedback.
I haven't seen the DCR video yet but did read the Hammerhead release this morning. Seems like they took a very ill advised approach - at best they should have got some sort of NDA in place if they were going to expect to be able to manage the story for the first 100 users / guinea pigs /previewers .
I'm sure it will arrive when it arrives :thumbsup:
-
It's an astonishing level of deceit. I've been following this since they were 'launched' and held back on buying one until I was sure they were shipping. Once they claimed they were, at the end of last month, I placed an order. However, it quickly became obvious that something wasn't right - no reviews, nothing on youtube, and then very muted comments from a couple of 'owners' - almost as though everyone had had to sign an NDA (which effectively the 100 beta testers, not buyers, had). Three weeks and still nothing and it was pretty obvious they were lying and I asked for a refund, which to be fair I got in three days. A couple of days later, they were called out by DCRainmaker as liars, to which they've had to own up to. Nothing has shipped to the open market, and the product itself is obviously well off being ready. If and when it ever ships, it can be the best thing ever, but I won't be buying one.
-
I'm in no rush, and I'm not in the first wave of customers. My strategy was always to wait until reviews start coming out, and then cancel if any issues appear to be unresolvable in the medium term, or are caused by the hardware.
They are obviously feeling a lot of pressure, and have made a huge mistake. What disappoints me is that they only lay everything in the open once they have been caught out. Otherwise there would have been no public apology and their misdemeanours would have been kept secret. So it just becomes a PR exercise to try to keep folk on board.
For me, their saving grace is the fact that this market is so poorly served currently.
-
I did think it was weird that they wouldn’t ramp up production straight away!
-
I have given up on the lack of confirmable news and cancelled my order this week. At least they completed the refund very promptly and without any hassle. I have a Garmin Edge 1030 on the way instead now.
-
I'd been uming and ahing about getting one of these but held off (if only because it would cost more than my current steed), but as is, and given the battery limitations of the hammerhead and other issues arising, for riders who don't need the cycling specific functionality (HRM, ANT+, whatever), increasingly the way forward seems to use a mobile phone + app. I occasionally receive DIY perm tracks from riders who use their phones as the primary GPS or as a backup when their GPS fails, and the tech seems to be coming along nicely. I'll have to start asking folks exactly what they are using.
But my reality is I've just bought an Extrex Vista Hcx for £21 (£26 delivered) on ebay so such decisions have been put off for the forseeable future. :)
-
They given 100 people a Karoo right ? That must be some ultra tight NDA they have right there! Not heard a dicky bird. Meanwhile the backers are getting extremely restless.
-
They given 100 people a Karoo right ? That must be some ultra tight NDA they have right there! Not heard a dicky bird. Meanwhile the backers are getting extremely restless.
No NDA apparently, but you're right, practically nothing - the 100 Caracal beta testers are perhaps so underwhelmed they can't be bothered to post anything much! It's not a kickstarter- there aren't backers in that sense of the word - people placed advance orders in return for a discount.
-
http://mailchi.mp/hammerhead/karoo-production-shipping-update?e=8f907e0d28 (http://mailchi.mp/hammerhead/karoo-production-shipping-update?e=8f907e0d28)
(http://images.emailaptitude.com/hammerhead/2018/January/01.09.18_ShippingQA/image1_p.jpg)
https://vimeo.com/246492638 (https://vimeo.com/246492638)
-
DC Rainmaker posted a new video on the Karoo in the past week. This is one of the beta test units
https://youtu.be/bMuGnHdb5Bk
-
Having watched the latest DC Rainmaker video I've decided to pull out. My main considerations were:
- No speaker. I hadn't realised that the unit would be silent, which seems a strange hardware decision. I suspect that in later models they will add a speaker, at least if they wish to appeal to road cyclists
- Allied with the above, I get the feeling that it is not just software updates that will improve the Karoo, but also a number of hardware improvements will be made. The second generation may provide a better product that is worth waiting for
- Price wise, once the Karoo is on the market and available from UK retailers, I don't believe the retail price will be significantly different from the pre-order price, especially given the large tax burden that is levied
One positive though, my refund was processed within 6 minutes of it being requested.
-
They've been adamant to date that they will only sell direct. UK sales will eventually be served by a European distribution point but for now seem to ship directly from the US. That of course leads to customs issues and of course returns or repairs hassle in shipping back to the US.
-
Yet another update email. I can’t understand why they are planning to phase in full functionality.
Still not tempted by the introductory price to be a software tester. Having said that, if it does all eventually work as they claim, it will wipe Garmin out.
-
I've thought about jumping on this a few times, tempted by the introductory discount but I once you factor in VAT and duty it's less of a bargain, let alone the unofficial beta testing that seems to be going on. The other thing that concerns me is all GPS manufacturers seem to be going down the 'all singing and dancing' route when nobody has actually managed to make a bike specific device that actually navigates reliably day in day out (perhaps Etrex excepted, although that still has its 'quirks').
-
From the comments on the DC Rainmaker vid: "Doesn't seem to be the product they originally advertised."
I didn't really understand 8 months ago why so many people seemed so keen to jump on board and make a financial commitment to buying an untested, unproven device. I still don't understand it now.
If an established tech company with years of experience finds it so hard to get it right, why would anyone imagine a new startup can deliver on all its promises at the first attempt?
Also, their website is awash with bullshit.
-
I'm in no rush, and I'm not in the first wave of customers. My strategy was always to wait until reviews start coming out, and then cancel if any issues appear to be unresolvable in the medium term, or are caused by the hardware.
They are obviously feeling a lot of pressure, and have made a huge mistake. What disappoints me is that they only lay everything in the open once they have been caught out. Otherwise there would have been no public apology and their misdemeanours would have been kept secret. So it just becomes a PR exercise to try to keep folk on board.
For me, their saving grace is the fact that this market is so poorly served currently.
in 6 month's time, you will buy it for half price on Ebay ....
IMHO, I don't think that it even comes close to the new Garmin Edge 1030 ....
I use the Edge 1000, and I struggled at first to get it to work properly, a few software revisions, and with help from the internet and other users to setting it up correctly, it never misses a beat for me now
I have mine connected to a Garmin Varia Radar unit plus all the sensors, so battery life was an issue (6-7hrs), (The radar unit chews the battery, but it's a 'must have') .... however, connect it to a powerbank and battery problems solved
so in my opinion, it's not even close to the Garmin and I doubt that I would buy one at half price on Ebay later this year
-
I think I'll be going for a refund this week I think. Beepgate is a big disappointment. I'll probably give a 1030 a go - can't be that bad surely :D
-
Having watched the latest DC Rainmaker video I've decided to pull out. My main considerations were:
- No speaker. I hadn't realised that the unit would be silent, which seems a strange hardware decision. I suspect that in later models they will add a speaker, at least if they wish to appeal to road cyclists
- Allied with the above, I get the feeling that it is not just software updates that will improve the Karoo, but also a number of hardware improvements will be made. The second generation may provide a better product that is worth waiting for
- Price wise, once the Karoo is on the market and available from UK retailers, I don't believe the retail price will be significantly different from the pre-order price, especially given the large tax burden that is levied
One positive though, my refund was processed within 6 minutes of it being requested.
Andrew, who did you contact to arrange the refund? I can't seem to find a process on their website.
-
I emailed support@hammerhead.io with my simple request for a refund, and gave them my order number. As mentioned above, they were very quick to respond and provide the refund. Hopefully that will be the case for yourself too.
-
I emailed support@hammerhead.io with my simple request for a refund, and gave them my order number. As mentioned above, they were very quick to respond and provide the refund. Hopefully that will be the case for yourself too.
Ta - email sent. There's a couple of 1030's in stock at my local Evans and I have a convenient £200 voucher from Quidco to spend so it makes it a very easy purchase! (Now if only Evans were open before 10AM I could pick it up and try it on today's ride! ::-) )
ETA: Refund requested 09:00 this morning, nothing received back yet other than a ticket has been raised auto-email.
-
I despair!
From "VP Operations - Hammerhead":
Thanks for getting in touch with us!
We’re sorry to hear that you would like a refund. We know you have been looking forward the Karoo, which is finally days away from delivery. We greatly appreciate your support these long months, and we would be extremely sorry to see you go now..
We will refund your money immediately if you wish, but before doing so, would you mind letting us know your specific reasoning? Your candor would be extremely helpful to us. However, you are certainly not required to give us any further explanation if you’d rather not.
Please note that the $299 pre-ordered price of Karoo you paid will be refunded to you if you’d like, but if you chose to again purchase the Karoo, you will pay the full regular price of $499.
All questions or concerns are encouraged! Otherwise, please just confirm that you’d like your refund, and we’ll provide it right away.
12 hours later I get a response .... We'll give you a refund if you tell us why, or tell us you are not going to tell us... ::-)
12 hours on from replying to that I still don't have a refund.
Perhaps they are overrun with refund requests or are 'all hands on deck' packaging everything...
-
That was very different to my experience for getting a refund.
I sent my short request for a refund on 15th Jan at 8:32. I didn't give a reason for the refund ... I thought the less information provided the better. I immediately got an automated response to say the request had been received. 6 minutes later I got notification that the order had been refunded. 1 minute after that I had an email from Sherkhan at Hammerhead confirming that he had processed the refund and stating "If you are unable to purchase it at this time, we totally understand, but please stay in touch so you can receive updates as we ship and have units in the wild."
-
I think they are overrun - I noted on a FB post I have been monitoring that a number of people are claiming to have recieved a request to confirm their delivery address - seems like a good idea to keep hopes alive says the cynic in me!.
I complained about the 'demand for feedback' - it would have been much better for them to have processed the refund then seek feedback if they wanted it... I felt a little at hostage. After waiting I sent them:
Regarding "We will refund your money immediately if you wish", I clearly indicated over 24 hours ago that I would like a refund.
Whilst I am happy to provide feedback (and have done) I am not happy that my refund is predicated on you reading that feedback!
Please escalate and advise progress.
To which they responded:
Thanks for the feedback Jason! Much appreciated. We will process your refund shortly.
Please excuse our reply speed. Despite being a tiny team, we ensure to get back to each and every one of our hundreds of message within a 24 hour period, as we have done with you.
Thanks again for your interest in our product. You should see the refund reflected within 24 hours.
All the best,
Jon
Refund arrived in to my paypal at 10:02, so 2 days and a bit from when requested. I was hovering over the escalate to Paypal as a claim button but whilst annoyed at 2 days of delay, felt it might still be a bit early to hit that button.
I am going to feedback on the delay, the ransom feeling and a suggested alternative wording! I would be concerned about how they are going to support the community if they are struggling to even process a simple refund "immediately".
In summary - I'm glad I'm out.... :thumbsup:
-
In the grand scheme of things, 2 days for a refund is much quicker than many large companies would achieve.
However, as a small company, if confidence in the product is lost and the refund demands escalate, there may well come a time when they pull the plug. Hopefully that won’t be the case.
-
In the grand scheme of things, 2 days for a refund is much quicker than many large companies would achieve.
However, as a small company, if confidence in the product is lost and the refund demands escalate, there may well come a time when they pull the plug. Hopefully that won’t be the case.
Yep agreed when the refund isn't paypal but what most concerned me was the ransom for feedback, my commercial spidey senses were triggered as I was thinking it might be a delaying tactic due to cash flow issues... (lack of anything delivered, a bit of a history for being flexible with the truth etc) I'm out now so more relieved. :thumbsup:
Anyhow, ordered, collected and now playing with a new 1030... I seem to have condemned myself to being another Garmin Beta tester! :facepalm: ;D
-
...nobody has actually managed to make a bike specific device that actually navigates reliably day in day out (perhaps Etrex excepted, although that still has its 'quirks').
I think a lot of the problem isn't the devices, but the road data. There's the traditional car satnav maps (Navteq & TeleAtlas, now owned by Garmin & TomTom), OpenStreetMap, and Google, and that's about it. None of them are properly reliable for bicycle-specific navigation, so there are always going to be routing glitches.
-
...nobody has actually managed to make a bike specific device that actually navigates reliably day in day out (perhaps Etrex excepted, although that still has its 'quirks').
I think a lot of the problem isn't the devices, but the road data. There's the traditional car satnav maps (Navteq & TeleAtlas, now owned by Garmin & TomTom), OpenStreetMap, and Google, and that's about it. None of them are properly reliable for bicycle-specific navigation, so there are always going to be routing glitches.
I've never had a problem with my Edge 1000 as regards planning a route on the unit, and the mapping software is the version that was released with the unit)
where I do sometimes find problems is when I plan a route on RideWithGps ..... sometimes, when getting to a 4 way intersection, it does not tell which way to turn, until after you guess which way to turn .... so I would guess that the problem is with the RideWithGps software (I use the free version)
and saying that, every route that I have copied from the Cambridge Cycle Club (on RideWithGps), has been flawless .... (maybe the paid version is better?)
-
...nobody has actually managed to make a bike specific device that actually navigates reliably day in day out (perhaps Etrex excepted, although that still has its 'quirks').
I think a lot of the problem isn't the devices, but the road data. There's the traditional car satnav maps (Navteq & TeleAtlas, now owned by Garmin & TomTom), OpenStreetMap, and Google, and that's about it. None of them are properly reliable for bicycle-specific navigation, so there are always going to be routing glitches.
Routing glitches I can cope with, it's the hardware/firmware/software failing that does my head in.
-
...nobody has actually managed to make a bike specific device that actually navigates reliably day in day out (perhaps Etrex excepted, although that still has its 'quirks').
I think a lot of the problem isn't the devices, but the road data. There's the traditional car satnav maps (Navteq & TeleAtlas, now owned by Garmin & TomTom), OpenStreetMap, and Google, and that's about it. None of them are properly reliable for bicycle-specific navigation, so there are always going to be routing glitches.
I've never had a problem with my Edge 1000 as regards planning a route on the unit, and the mapping software is the version that was released with the unit)
where I do sometimes find problems is when I plan a route on RideWithGps ..... sometimes, when getting to a 4 way intersection, it does not tell which way to turn, until after you guess which way to turn .... so I would guess that the problem is with the RideWithGps software (I use the free version)
and saying that, every route that I have copied from the Cambridge Cycle Club (on RideWithGps), has been flawless .... (maybe the paid version is better?)
I've got the paid for premium RWGPS and thought it was the ideal solution, until it stopped downloading all the map tiles off line, or rather it appeared to download them then when you were about to start your ride, or were part way through, and were staring at a blank screen. I'm now on OSMand and using a bike computer for speed, distance, cadence etc.
-
and saying that, every route that I have copied from the Cambridge Cycle Club (on RideWithGps), has been flawless .... (maybe the paid version is better?)
Not IME, although it is only occasionally that I've noticed the fault and as I ride with a Garmin Oregon on view and paid for RidewithGPS chattering away in my back pocket it wasn't a problem. The reason for the two is that if I was going to have only one, it would be the Garmin, but RidewithGPS is streets ahead (oops) for route planning. Oh yeah, and that chatter amuses me sometimes, like when it told me to ride on the LU-P500 (Lugo provincial road, 500) - "Turn onto Loopy 500" Most times the fault seems associated with not realising there is a change in road, for whatever reason.
-
I saw this posted on FB today, might be of interest to anyone still with an iron in the fire.
Aaron M. Roy Here is some feedback after testing my Karoo out the past two weeks...
Pros:
-Hardware GUI is super easy to use and your off, riding and recording in seconds.
-Strava sync has been flawless so far
-Unit fell of while riding today and is completely fine minus some dings and dents.
-New software updates seem to be out every week.
Cons:
-No strava live segments (to my knowledge)
-still multiple bugs to iron out (I.e on recent ride I left karoo on pause while in coffee shop and ride ended with no way to resume)
-web GUI is more difficult to use then map my ride or other segment/route creators.
Overall I like the device, excited to see further software improvements on Karoo and web portal in next few months!
-
Thanks Jason. Holding fire till more reviews start coming in....
-
DCR has posted a new video. Changing pages seems a bit tricky to me, (prefer using my Garmin remote) and you can't keep cycling through pages and of course no beep. Still happy with my decision.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUVwwlIyZcg&t=4s
-
DCR has posted a new video. Changing pages seems a bit tricky to me, (prefer using my Garmin remote) and you can't keep cycling through pages and of course no beep. Still happy with my decision.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUVwwlIyZcg&t=4s
The 'no sound' is a plain bonkers decision that I think will cost them dear. I note DCR's conclusion that this is 12-18 months off being 'prime time', by which time of course the competition will have moved that much further on. Also note that it is still not shipping ... happy I cancelled mine.
-
Cancelled my order- Ray Maker's opinions were pretty conclusive for me. I'll certainly be keeping an eye on reviews and feedback once Karoos finally start shipping, and I'm still hoping Hammerhead get it right. Garmin need someone to give them a good kicking....
-
It’s shipping now!! Here we go!
-
It’s shipping now!! Here we go!
Ummm, perhaps not quite - USA only, shipping within the next couple of days, Europe at least two weeks until they ship (and no indication of where from or how long it will take) and that in itself pending some European certification ... and so it goes on. And all of this only for those who placed orders many, many months ago. If you've ordered within the last 6 months ...
-
Still better than a fart in bed! This is a major step forward from not being able to ship at all!
-
Still better than a fart in bed! This is a major step forward from not being able to ship at all!
I'll take the fart - delivered on demand and on time, probably more satisfying and free as well. I note the 'early offer' is still up - they said this was only until it began shipping.
-
Still better than a fart in bed! This is a major step forward from not being able to ship at all!
I'll take the fart - delivered on demand and on time, probably more satisfying and free as well. I note the 'early offer' is still up - they said this was only until it began shipping.
They have a lot of goodwill to make up and a lot of people cancelled so they can keep the offer on for those cancelled units maybe. It’s sure gonna get more interesting from now on.
-
Gonna be a long time before it is a garmin beater by the looks of it. Lots of feedback on facebook and it's extremely basic. Best come back in a year and see if it is still around!
-
My karoo arrived this week and I have done 1 ride of 30km on it. part on route with TBT directions and the the last 10k off course. Started flawlessly and worked fine with stages power meter and garmin HR band. When I deliberately went off course it corrected itself and tried to get me back on track. One instance during this when it got totally stuffed but then about 2 minutes later reset its routing and then flawlessly took me back onto a track. After the amount of negativity on the FB sites I am very impressed. They have a small problem with the locking tabs but nothing which cannot be sorted.
-
My karoo arrived this week and I have done 1 ride of 30km on it. part on route with TBT directions and the the last 10k off course. Started flawlessly and worked fine with stages power meter and garmin HR band. When I deliberately went off course it corrected itself and tried to get me back on track. One instance during this when it got totally stuffed but then about 2 minutes later reset its routing and then flawlessly took me back onto a track. After the amount of negativity on the FB sites I am very impressed. They have a small problem with the locking tabs but nothing which cannot be sorted.
That's good news as its getting an absolute hammering (pun intended) on facebook to the point I have basically dismissed the product.
-
facebook is interesting though as there are more people giving it a reasonable review now. Lots of people are saying that there are 1000 members of the Facebook group and therefore all these complaints mean that the device is awful. However we do not know how many devices have been sold so we do not know what proportion of people are having problems. I certainly do not think that this is a finished product but then for how many years have we been all saying that the Garmins are not finished products?
Have they over promised and under delivered? Yes they have but that is the nature of all of these devices and whilst this apparently was not a kickstart a project, it was certainly a brand-new device on what was at that stage a new platform for a device of this nature.
I can understand the desire for every device of this nature to be attached with a quarter turn mount but the reality is that the torsional stress due to the increased width and weight of this device on a quarter turn mount will have added extra stress to the mounting tabs and therefore I think my greatest disappointment at this stage is that they have not changed the mounting support. I think the tabs are acceptable but I think the karoo needs a larger area of support than it presently has.
I am certainly keeping mine. The screen is beautiful and I suspect it will take another 6 – 9 months to be finally a garmin beater but I do not see why it would not be in the end.
-
facebook is interesting though as there are more people giving it a reasonable review now. Lots of people are saying that there are 1000 members of the Facebook group and therefore all these complaints mean that the device is awful. However we do not know how many devices have been sold so we do not know what proportion of people are having problems. I certainly do not think that this is a finished product but then for how many years have we been all saying that the Garmins are not finished products?
Same applies doesn't it. We do not know what proportion of Garmin users have problems either. It's probably not "all".
-
Same applies doesn't it. We do not know what proportion of Garmin users have problems either. It's probably not "all".
There's also the difficulty of differentiating the "doesn't work" problems from "hard to use" and "mismatched expectations". While you do get the occasional random crash, most of the issues with Garmins these days come in the latter categories. They've made the software infuriating for a small subset of users who want to do certain things (and probably improved it for others) but they have got better at things that actually break, like rubber bands, handlebar brackets and battery contacts.
-
Saw a Karoo on a local CTC ride last week. Did like the size and resolution of the screen. Shame you are stuck with the maps they provide, rather than being able to load your own. Has anyone used it on a 400km audax and up yet?
-
What really struck me is the amount of people that rely on TBT which doesn't work ( never worked on my Garmin products and i have it turned off on wahoo). Surely you'd know your way round local routes and even with "audax" lengths, you'd be doing some research and know where you want to be going.
-
I find TBT on Garmin is useful, but only as a convenience for beeping at junctions and making the screen more readable, when used with a lovingly hand-crafted (in Basecamp, using the map that's on the unit - anything else is too prone to randomness) Route. For anything audax-like, I'd use it in combination with a visible Track and the odd annotated waypoint so you can strategically ignore it when it loses the plot.
Ie. It's not a complete waste of time, but it does rely on you having done your homework, at which point its usefulness is greatly depreciated.
It's okay for helping you find the railway station when things go wrong, though. That's closer to what that sort of thing is designed to be used for.
I was reasonably impressed by the Edge Touring's "plot me a ride of distance n" feature. Again, a different animal from following some pre-determined route, which auto-routing is always going to be in conflict with.
-
What is TBT?
-
What is TBT?
Turn-By-Turn directions.
Where on the approach to a junction, it beeps, zooms the map in to the junction, draws a white arrow on top of the purple line, and gives an instruction.
-
Ah! Thanks, Feanor.
I just make do with the breadcrumb trail on my Edge 510 but find that more than adequate for following a route - especially now I've learnt how to add waypoints. You occasionally have to use a bit of guesswork at complicated junctions but it's soon clear if you've gone off piste.
-
[off topic] Edge 510 should do TBT, my very elderly 500 does*. Try making a route on cycle.travel, TBT is a checkbox option when you download the .tcx.
*The 500 makes the beep on or just after the junction which is sub-optimal but still of use. It's an issue with the garmin, the file from c.t has the turn marks exactly the distance you ask for before the junction. No matter what distance before you ask for the garmin ignores it and beeps on or just after the turn. I don't understand how as it has no knowledge of the road layout. Even an 'exit 2' effective straight on at a roundabout gets moved to the exit, c.t allows you to set the marker 30-100m before and I've tested the full range. I guess the demon inside mine reading the notes has to amuse itself somehow :-\
[/off topic]
-
*The 500 makes the beep on or just after the junction which is sub-optimal but still of use. It's an issue with the garmin, the file from c.t has the turn marks exactly the distance you ask for before the junction. No matter what distance before you ask for the garmin ignores it and beeps on or just after the turn. I don't understand how as it has no knowledge of the road layout.
Are you sure it's not simply beeping to indicate a significant change in direction? It doesn't need any TBT instructions to do that.
-
Yes, when I’m using the ‘map’ screen for navigation, the 510 often gives me turn instructions based on significant changes of direction, such as a sharp bend, even if it’s not a junction. It has no knowledge of the actual road layout. (I have turned the beeps off because they’re too irritating.)
It is possible to manually program it with proper turn instructions but it’s more trouble than it’s worth. As noted already, I get on fine following the breadcrumb trail.
-
Yes, when I’m using the ‘map’ screen for navigation, the 510 often gives me turn instructions based on significant changes of direction, such as a sharp bend, even if it’s not a junction. It has no knowledge of the actual road layout
I often find that those acute turns have some sort of track, even if vestigial on the OS map which also causes a turn indicatiob
-
I have finally given up on my hammerhead karoo.
Good points:
The display is amazing, clear, large and visible even in bright sunlight.
The software is now pretty good. It knows that we drive on the left and turn indications are correct. Segments are nicely displayed from Strava and much better than garmin.
TBT works nicely and clearly
Bad points:
No beep at all
It completely crashes on me with no warning. I can do a 60km ride with full TBT and no problems then next day it will crash on my commute when it is just recording. I have done so many re-installs it is not true.
Now I fully accept that I probably have a bad one and this is not indicative of their overall quality but I cannot trust it again. BUT it is Android and you can side load other programs, etc.
So I am giving it away if anybody wants to play with side loading other mapping software, etc for the fun of it. pm me
-
I have finally given up on my hammerhead karoo.
Good points:
The display is amazing, clear, large and visible even in bright sunlight.
The software is now pretty good. It knows that we drive on the left and turn indications are correct. Segments are nicely displayed from Strava and much better than garmin.
TBT works nicely and clearly
Bad points:
No beep at all
It completely crashes on me with no warning. I can do a 60km ride with full TBT and no problems then next day it will crash on my commute when it is just recording. I have done so many re-installs it is not true.
Now I fully accept that I probably have a bad one and this is not indicative of their overall quality but I cannot trust it again. BUT it is Android and you can side load other programs, etc.
So I am giving it away if anybody wants to play with side loading other mapping software, etc for the fun of it. pm me
Sent you a PM Chris.
-
Just bought a Karoo 2
-
Be interested to hear how it goes, having been sitting on the fence for a good while now. I like the continuous software development, I don't like the frankly unforgivable repeat of mountings breaking. Battery life seemingly could be be better, and Garmin seem to have really got a grip on this. Perhaps with Chris Froome now on board, there might be some accelerated development. Wahoo certainly shook the market up, but seem to have lost their way recently, with software issues, and I experienced this first hand with a Bolt 2, a complete dud, which was returned - yet my Bolt 1 has been really good for over 3 years now (save for Wahoo's inability to sort the broken syncing).
-
Interesting that the Karoo2 only just comes behind the 1030Plus in DCrainmakers assessment.
-
Only used 3 times and still learning it. First thoughts are that the screen is great, the mount is great but using it can be a bit frustrating. The software has a bit of an amateur feel to it at times. For example the TBT flashes up in a big box at the bottom which obscures half the map, but the font is tiny even though there is loads of room for it. Instructions are shit. You have to pretty much search their blog for keywords. I wanted to see if I could set it to have track up at all times to stop the TBT obscuring the map, but there was nothing in the instructions.
I did a loop ride and turned back early. It didn't notice and just let me go back as if I was still following the route
I had to Google it.
-
Used it a few times now. It has been very stable....but it isn't intuitive to use and I struggle to remember how to operate it sometimes. For example stopping a route mid ride. It isn't obvious, and pushing all of the buttons leaves me none the wiser.
-
The brand has just been bought by SRAM - perhaps there will be some significant capital injection into the software development now.
-
It's a little bit amateurish. Silly things like huge fonts in places, tiny fonts in others.
-
The brand has just been bought by SRAM - perhaps there will be some significant capital injection into the software development now.
Why do I get the feeling this was always the intended outcome for the creators?
-
Mr Flatus, how are you getting on with the Karoo 2? Are you any more/less enamoured with it?
Given the demise of Viewranger and the problems we have been having with its replacement, OutdoorActive, we are considering a cycling specific GPS unit and the Karoo 2 looks as though it's one of the better ones. We would be interested in your latest thoughts.
Not bothered about all the bells and whistles, Strava segments etc, just looking for a basic device that we can load a route onto and be able to follow it.
The fact that they offer a 45 day trial period is tempting.
Thanks
R
-
I like it.
Although, I would question why you would want something so complex. It really does have all the bells and whistles. I think you might be better off with a much more basic Garmin or Wahoo.
I'm still getting used to it, and I still struggle to sometimes remember how to do some of the functions. The font thing still fucks me off...I can't read some of the stuff that pops up and I can't change the font size.
Battery life is probably about 10 hours, which is a bit lower than competitors but then that gorgeous screen probably accounts for some of it. It will charge off an external pack easily.
I'm still frustrated that I keep finding features I didn't know about that aren't un the online guide. For example, I've just discovered that swiping up with 2 fingers on the map page gives you a 3D view. I don't think any other GPS can do this.
But, it hasn't ever failed, and it can do a lot of things.
-
I think you might be better off with a much more basic Garmin or Wahoo.
Are you suggesting that those devices handle mapping in much the same way? Sorry bit numpty about these things.
-
Sort of. The best navigation mapping I've ever used was Garmin with Turn by turn (TBT) The only issue back when I last used them (8 years ago or so) was that the devices were so complicated that crashes were frequent.
If you can get a Garmin that does TBT, with a screen size that suits you, and without too many extra functions you don't need, then that would be my pick for you. I think they've solved the stability issues and the TBT directions that flash up are really good. The Wahoo and Karoo TBT are too small for me to be able to see what they are (very frustrating).
-
If your last experience was in the HCx era, TBT directions on Garmins took a turn for the less clear with the eTrex20/30 and later. You now get an arrow drawn on the map and a text instruction, rather than a don't-need-your-reading-glasses popup stylised turn direction.
The auto-routing (which you have to use if you want these turn instructions on an eTrex, I think you can do things with Courses on the Edge series) is also notoriously prone to quirks in the mapping, which since Garmin now ship lightly-tweaked (and highly detailed) OSM maps rather than carefully curated City Navigator road maps, usually leads to a Sustrans cyclocross or occasional motorway-in-all-but-name adventure and sometimes crashes the unit.
Unless handled with tranquillity, this sort of thing can lead to stress, ulcers and even death. The sanest approach is to simply upload a track and follow it as a line on the map, but then it doesn't beep and light up as you approach junctions.
-
If your last experience was in the HCx era, TBT directions on Garmins took a turn for the less clear with the eTrex20/30 and later. You now get an arrow drawn on the map and a text instruction, rather than a don't-need-your-reading-glasses popup stylised turn direction.
705 and 800 were the last units I used. May be more recent than 8 years, I really can't remember!
They used to flash up an exploded view of the junction
-
I've still got my Vista HCx and I really really hope it lasts to, and through, the upcoming LEL.
Well, ideally beyond as well.
-
I look fondly back on the 705. I kept it going for ages, replacing the battery twice. Eventually it was the weather sealing that failed and it would shut down when really wet.
Truth is, if I were to try using one now I'd hate it. The development of these devices seems slowly incremental...but if you put a decade between them they resemble something from the stone age.
-
The sanest approach is to simply upload a track and follow it as a line on the map, but then it doesn't beep and light up as you approach junctions.
So if one wanted just this approach to navigating what device would one go for? Ideally one that would support OS mapping as well as OSM. I have a stoker to follow the map so pop up instructions and TBT are not needed - she does need to be kept occupied after all!! :D
-
The sanest approach is to simply upload a track and follow it as a line on the map, but then it doesn't beep and light up as you approach junctions.
Don't agree. TBT is great. Tracks are annoying because you have to keep looking at the device to nake sure you are on route. If you want a peaceful time then many units allow you to set the screen to switch off and only flick on when a TBT instruction is coming. This is particularly useful at night, and doubly so if tired.
-
What you say is no doubt true for you and the kind of riding that you do, and indeed the kind of riding that these units are intended for, but as I said I have a stoker whose job it is to map read and enjoys a map. We don't do night riding nor ride when that tired either.
-
The sanest approach is to simply upload a track and follow it as a line on the map, but then it doesn't beep and light up as you approach junctions.
Don't agree. TBT is great. Tracks are annoying because you have to keep looking at the device to nake sure you are on route. If you want a peaceful time then many units allow you to set the screen to switch off and only flick on when a TBT instruction is coming. This is particularly useful at night, and doubly so if tired.
Oh, I agree, but I'm someone who knows at least two programming languages, and has the GPS mounted on the derailleur post of my recumbent.
When people ask newbie GPS questions, they tend to be coming from a maps/routesheet background and want something that Just Works, and learning the 1990s UI of a typical Garmin is a bit of a stretch. Understanding the hoops you have to jump through in order to make auto-routing go where you want it to isn't the sort of thing I'm keen to recommend, though it's my preferred method, as I appreciate the convenience of being beeped at with clear instructions when I'm daydreaming on my bike.
-
the kind of riding that these units are intended for
In general, GPS units are intended for one of two kinds of riding:
a) The sort you do in the hills, with sturdy boots and no bicycle. (General-purpose outdoor handhelds, like the Garmin eTrex, GPSMap and similar)
b) 'Training'. (Any cycling-oriented GPS device)
They can all show you a map, draw lines on it, tell you the distance to a waypoint, keep track of where you've been, odometers, average speeds, and so on.
Cycling-specific features tend to involve the ability to connect things like cadence and power sensors, and more advanced performance-oriented analytics.
The ability to plot a route from A to B along roads (as you'd use a car satnav) is a high-end feature unrelated to cycling-orientedness, and they're all fairly bad at it, because algorithmically determining a good cycling route is a surprisingly hard problem, and the maps aren't consistent in their handling of off-road paths.
If you're audaxing or touring, none of them are ideal. You basically choose between the ones that will run for ages on AA batteries, or the ones with nice handelbar mounts that can speak to your expensive sensors but use an internal battery that won't last a whole 200.
-
Auto-routing??? :o :o :o
Surely everybody knows that auto-routing is the very first thing you switch off on a Garmin
-
What you say is no doubt true for you and the kind of riding that you do, and indeed the kind of riding that these units are intended for, but as I said I have a stoker whose job it is to map read and enjoys a map. We don't do night riding nor ride when that tired either.
Yanno.
It was a reply to Kim.
-
Russell. For your use any of the modern units will work perfectly. Yes there is a learning curve but there is with all technology.
Komoot and ridewithgps both now automatically download to Garmin (and May to Karoo).
If the gps unit only turns on to tell you about an upcoming junction it will last about 400km. All can be charged with a battery pack whilst eating cake.
-
Auto-routing??? :o :o :o
Surely everybody knows that auto-routing is the very first thing you switch off on a Garmin
Unless you want proper junction-aware turn directions on an eTrex 30/32x?
-
Not used an eTrex 20,30..but on the higher end models the auto-route was a pain. If you accidentally went off route and didn't realise it would recalculate the route occasionally sending you down some nasty roads.
But as I said earlier, I am now 2 GPS units away from my last Garmin. The units I did use were Etrex Legend (2002) 60csx (about 2006) 705 (about 2008-2012) and the 800 which I didn't keep for long because it was utterly unreliable.
-
Not used an eTrex 20,30..but on the higher end models the auto-route was a pain. If you accidentally went off route and didn't realise it would recalculate the route occasionally sending you down some nasty roads.
Absolutely. It takes a lot of effort to hand-craft a route in Basecamp that persuades auto-routing to go the way you want it to, and even then the device's algorithm doesn't quite match Basecamp's so it sometimes goes astray.
But it's the only way to get proper turn prompts. (Yes, you can use proximity waypoints with instructions in the name as a work-around.)
I've said before that the eTrex 30 was the best unit Garmin have made. The software was a retrograde step compared to the Vista HCx, but the more robust hardware cancelled that out. The eTrex 32x is ostensibly just an eTrex 30 with more onboard storage and a higher-resolution display, but the screen is murky crap that needs backlight or direct sunlight to read, like those on the Edge series.
-
I started out using MemoryMap on a PC with serial cables and a connection more akin to using a ouija board, because it was 20 years ago and Web based stuff didn't exist. Then onto a free UK OS map based thing whose name I cant remember despite using it for yonks. Fuck, that's really bugging me now. I remember the developer was called Simon and he had a PayPal link, and if you bunged him a fiver (which I did every now and again) he seemed surprised, and almost shocked. He put on a gpxx extention for the 705, and IIRC you could get good TBT routing. Also used it for the 800, but that was FIT files. Obviously RWGPS is ubiquitous now, and so easy to use.
-
I started out using MemoryMap on a PC with serial cables and a connection more akin to using a ouija board, because it was 20 years ago and Web based stuff didn't exist. Then onto a free UK OS map based thing whose name I cant remember despite using it for yonks. Fuck, that's really bugging me now. I remember the developer was called Simon and he had a PayPal link, and if you bunged him a fiver (which I did every now and again) he seemed surprised, and almost shocked. He put on a gpxx extention for the 705, and IIRC you could get good TBT routing. Also used it for the 800, but that was FIT files. Obviously RWGPS is ubiquitous now, and so easy to use.
That sounds like www.bikehike.co.uk
-
Ah that was it. Thx :thumbsup:
-
I look fondly back on the 705. I kept it going for ages, replacing the battery twice. Eventually it was the weather sealing that failed and it would shut down when really wet.
Truth is, if I were to try using one now I'd hate it. The development of these devices seems slowly incremental...but if you put a decade between them they resemble something from the stone age.
I bought your old 705 on here. I have had a few 705s as I couldn't get interested in another device. My original one had gone a bit cranky after about 10 years, and a couple of others that I bought second hand also had issues. Yours was the best, though, it worked flawlessly (and I didn't have any issues in the wet!). Unfortunately I left it in the underground car park at the NatWest Tower when I took it off the bike and put it on a handy ledge, and forgot about it.
I almost fired up a couple of old 705s during recent GPS woes. I still think they do what I want at least as well as anything more recent. But none of my stable are completely robust - they all crash now and again, or lose a track. If I still had your old one I might still be using it!
-
I genuinely don't remember selling it to you, but I'm glad it worked well, especially in the wet. I may have resealed it with silicone, but again I can't remember. Think I had replaced the battery though.
I suppose the big advantage of today's devices over the 705 is the cable free synching, especially as I rarely use any sort of computer at home apart from my phone.
-
Re-posted this in the "What is the current favourite GPS?" thread so ignore wot I have rote here.
Having been outbid on a cheap (turned out to be not so cheap) Mio 505 I've looking around and come across the Mio Cyclo 210. An Ebay seller has NOS for a resonable price. Reviews seem favourable and the unit comes across as a no bells or whistles device that sounds like the thing we are after. My only concern is, although the reviews state the ability to upload gpx to the device, no-one comments on following them without using the navigation function. I think upthread someone commented on this but I am looking for reassurance.
Thanks
R
-
But as I said earlier, I am now 2 GPS units away from my last Garmin.
How is it going now with the Karoo2? I think I am ready for a new GPS, and what is interesting me about the Karoo, among other things, is that I think it has the most easily seen display for at-a-glance TBT following. Reviews seem positive but somewhat at odds with your comments above.
-
Haven't used it since mid March (2nd covid fucked my long distance riding), but it did get quite a few 200k trips out before then. I can't remember what I said upthread but I think it is pretty good IF you are willing to scratch around a bit to find out how to use it. The online instructions are not comprehensive, it isn't entirely intuitive, and you have to find out whether it can do the things you hope it can.
Only real gripe is that you can't change font size and tbt instructions are they are too small for my hyperopic eyes to read. Again, this may change, they may decide to incorporate this into a firmware change but they won't tell you when they do it.
-
Thanks Flatus. I see on Reddit that you are not alone in thinking the font size is too small, which negates the benefit of a decent display. I'll hold off buying for now until I know more about that issue.
-
Now they've been bought out by SRAM, one would hope there is some more money available for development - they're certainly spending it on advertising, paper and online, there's been a noticeable increase. I've queried why they can't have a left or right option for the Varia radar info - it's counter-intuitive to have it on the left when cycing on the left - they're not interested in adding it. Crazy, it must be the simplest thing to do, Garmin have it, RidewithGPS have it. The Karoo is still on my 'interested' list, but for now my Bolt 1 soldiers on (despite Wahoo constantly messing up the software).
-
Now they've been bought out by SRAM
And immediately Shimano acted to ensure the Karoo won't work with Di2...
-
Other way round, Simon!
SRAM removed support for di2 from Karoo.
Anyway, IIRC chrisbainbridge is a user and has some incisive things to say about it.
-
SRAM removed support for Di2 because Shimano withdrew their approval for Karoo to interface with Di2.
-
I did read on their forum a couple of weeks ago (although I can't find it now) that a fix was in the works for the Di2 issue. My other beefs are failure to address battery life and the lack of live tracking for MrsHorizon to see where I am. Seems to me they should pause their fortnightly software updates/feature adds and fix the basics.
-
I’m new to Di2 but so far the only really useful thing I find with the admittedly basic Wahoo Elemnt / Di2 interface is being able to use the buttons on the shifters to change page and to zoom in. Battery life etc., I get from the E-Tube app, although I suppose a low battery warning on the GPS screen could prove useful some day.
-
What about knowing what gear you're in? I find the visual representation of this on my Bolt invaluable, having used it I wouldn't want to lose it. It's also mildly amusing to know I've changed gear 147 times and my most used gear is 46/16 (for example) on my post ride analysis.
-
What about knowing what gear you're in? I find the visual representation of this on my Bolt invaluable, having used it I wouldn't want to lose it. It's also mildly amusing to know I've changed gear 147 times and my most used gear is 46/16 (for example) on my post ride analysis.
I’m still at the stage where I’m just enjoying the shifting! I do have the gear graph on there. Guess it would be good on a long steep one when you are wondering if you have any lower gears left? :)
Where are you getting the most used gear data from? Maybe the Elemnt doesn’t have that.
-
On the app, select History > select the map of the saved ride > scroll down to see all the data for that ride, based on the cards you have chosen to be displayed (tap on the three sliders at the top of the screen to select). This is iOS, no doubt Android is similar. I'm using eTap, but again I assume Di2 is similar.
-
Ah OK. Gears card is not showing even when activated. I wonder why.
-
Perhaps "Cards will be hidden automatically when no data has been recorded"?
-
I no longer have a Karoo. Mine was just too flaky for real use by me. I fully accept that other people find them stable and usable.
I have just got a Garmin 1040 (birthday) and with a fenix 6 I am solidly in the Garmin camp. None of them are as intuitive as my iPhone but then none of them had Jonny Ives designing them and the resources of Apple or the price of an iPhone.
-
Perhaps "Cards will be hidden automatically when no data has been recorded"?
I guess that must be the case, no data recorded. I did have a problem with the Wahoo during the only ride I have done with the Di2 linked up, so will try again. However, another thing is that the Elemnt does not offer any set-up options for the Di2 as a sensor. Most guides I can see mention that you should be able to set cassette and chainring size (although I would have thought it would pull that from the Di2 system itself).
I no longer have a Karoo. Mine was just too flaky for real use by me.
Yes, looking at the relevant Reddit it's just not there yet. I also see recent reports of charging ports melting etc.
I'm reluctant to give up on Wahoo for my next device, but if I stick with them it looks as if the Bolt v2 is the best bet. However, the screen is small albeit with much better definition than the Roam.
I can get a significant discount on the Garmin 1040 and some others (not the Explore 2 though) so I am tempted.
-
Perhaps "Cards will be hidden automatically when no data has been recorded"?
I guess that must be the case, no data recorded. I did have a problem with the Wahoo during the only ride I have done with the Di2 linked up, so will try again. However, another thing is that the Elemnt does not offer any set-up options for the Di2 as a sensor. Most guides I can see mention that you should be able to set cassette and chainring size (although I would have thought it would pull that from the Di2 system itself).
We're going way off topic here, but Di2 didn't broadcast wirelessly as standard (unlike eTap) - you may need to add a Bluetooth/wifi module - see Shane Millers excellent video https://youtu.be/dDz8TJGDq3U. All Wahoo units run the same software/app.
-
I have EW-WU111 so can use the E-Tube app etc. The buttons on the shifters connect to the Wahoo, the gears display etc, it's just that the gear data doesn't seem to get recorded.
But yes, way off topic, will take this to a new thread if needed.
Edited to add: had another look at this. Didn’t change a thing other than to set up a Di2 page on the Elemnt. When I returned to sensor set-up, the option to view / edit chainring size and cassette tooth had appeared - previously it wasn’t there. I have a feeling next time I’ll see some data on the card after the ride - hopefully.
Still no Di2 battery though - there is no field available to select that. Maybe it's only an alert when battery level reaches a certain point?
Edited to add: as I have discovered, it is only an alert on the Elemnt, there is no Di2 battery field to add. You can see the battery level, but not add it as a data field on a page.