Saddles and the ongoing saga of a traumatised bottom

[Hummers]

Speaking from a purely scientific point of view you understand, I can't say I noticed any particularly odd rocking from side to side when I was riding behind you. 

Indeed.

I am not a doctor but I have looked at many arses. In fact, I quite often scour the Internet for photographs of them in my spare time. By happy coincidence, I did have quite a good look at your arse as you crested Ditchling Beacon and found it small but deliciously enchanting nothing obviously wrong with your position.

It does seem that you have exhausted all the "breaking it in/pushing through the pain" and position options available to you. If it were me, I'd start to think that my arse was not cut out for this cycling lark too. 

Perhaps it is time to seek medical advice - perhaps not your GP but maybe a cycling chiropractor might be able to help.

Please remember, I am always available to offer a second opinion, should you wish to send me any photographs* of the affected area.

*If you need advice on camera angles, exposure or the best lighting setup, I have it on ggod authority that Regulator is a veritable font of knowledge on the subject and I'm sure will have some useful tips to share.

Good luck. Let's all hope you get it sorted and you can venture out again with us soon.

H

[fruitcake]

Blimey Annie, that does sound most unpleasant.

As you're of a very slender build, perhaps your current saddle is too wide for comfort.

Seconded. Brooks tend to be wide. I find B17s too wide and got chafing when I used then, they happen to be one of the more popular models of Brooks and so they get recommended often.  Specialized dealers have sit bone measurers (a gel pad which leaves impressions which you then measure).  The reasons for my discomfort with a 17cm wide Brooks B17 became clear when the measure showed me I needed something close to 135mm. 
There are narrower models of Brooks and I have had much more success with a Brooks Swift on one bike and a Brooks Competition (at 15cm wide) on another. 
 
Ditching cycling forever seems an extreme response.
But doctors often advise a break from the activity that caused the trauma so the skin etc has time to recover, then to gradually build up the duration.

[annie]

Blimey Annie, that does sound most unpleasant.

As you're of a very slender build, perhaps your current saddle is too wide for comfort.

Seconded. Brooks tend to be wide. I find B17s too wide and got chafing when I used then, they happen to one of the more popular models of Brooks and so they get recommended often.  Specialized dealers have sit bone measurers (a gel pad which you place on a bench which leaves impressions which you then measure).  The reasons for my discomfort with a 17cm wide Brooks B17 became clear when the measure showed me I needed something close to 135mm. 
There are narrower models of Brooks and I have had much more success with a Brooks Swift on one bike and a Brooks Competition (at 15cm wide) on another. 
 
Ditching cycling forever seems an extreme response.
But doctors often advise a break from the activity that caused the trauma so the skin etc has time to recover, then to gradually build up the duration.

I will get my bones measured

Resting for a prolonged period will not solve the problem, the skin is intact, no sores or boils, the problem is the grinding of the sit bones and in particular the left one.  I think that whatever the sit bones come into contact with will cause them problems.  I can remember wearing two pairs of shorts on one of the rides last year to see if it would alleviate any of the grinding sensation, it made no difference.

[Tim Hall]

I will get my bones measured

Specialized dealers should have a gadget for doing this. Picture here: http://www.nidus-corp.com/bass.html

Resting for a prolonged period will not solve the problem, the skin is intact, no sores or boils, the problem is the grinding of the sit bones and in particular the left one.  I think that whatever the sit bones come into contact with will cause them problems.  I can remember wearing two pairs of shorts on one of the rides last year to see if it would alleviate any of the grinding sensation, it made no difference.

The main reason we have a Pino is that Mrs. Hall got very uncomfortable on the back of a normal tandem. And you've got a solo 'bent already.  The Darkside is calling.

[bobajobrob]

There are narrower models of Brooks and I have had much more success with a Brooks Swift on one bike and a Brooks Competition (at 15cm wide) on another. 

There's a B17 S which is a women's specific version, narrower than the standard. There's also a B17 narrow which is narrower again.

I find my B17 very comfortable, more so than my team pro.

[annie]

Just measured my Brooks - 15cm.

I have ridden saddles that are narrower and have caused the same problem.  I think what I need to invent are two circular pads with cut outs for my sit bones, somehow attach them to my bottom and place shorts on the top.  Quite how I stick them on is still circulating around in my muddled brain, another chocolate might help

[andrewc]

The ladies cycling site SheCycles have a pool of saddles for members to try. They've also got lots of articles & tests on ladies saddles. It might be worthwhile posting a query there.

http://www.shecycles.com/news/article/mps/uan/2134

[Noodley]

...another chocolate might help

It may stick for a short time, but would eventually melt...

[annie]

...another chocolate might help

It may stick for a short time, but would eventually melt...

I had a little attempt at measuring the distance between my sit bones, I got 10cms, my method wasn't very scientific, bend over, try to feel sit bones under swelling, apply ruler and remove.

[Tim Hall]

Get some blu-tak. Or perhaps pastry. Squidge (stop me if I'm getting too technical) between two bits of paper. Place on a table, worktop etc.  Sit. Get off. Measure.

I'm sure Hummers will be along to suggest alternative methods.

[jane]

You poor thing, sounds really horrible.  I haven't trawled this whole thread, so forgive me if my comments are superfluous but is the bike you generally ride specially made for you?  If like me you are not a standard size, then off the peg bikes rarely, if ever, fit well enough to ensure cycling more than a few miles doesn't result in pain in one or more body areas.  I have never had the nasty problem you are experiencing but my daughter suffered extremely sore buttocks which disappeared once she started riding with drops, and using a Brooks.  This was most likely due to the fact that lthe new bike fitted her much better and less weight was bearing down on her sit bones, rather than the Brooks (although I do love those saddles). Your problem sounds much more severe than hers ever was, though, and I think if it were me I would adopt a two pronged approach
a. Get the opinion of a sports injury specialist (if you are in London and your own NHS practice won't stump up, the Crystal Palace sports injury clinic is very reasonable)and very good, at least it was for me) and
b. Contact a bespoke frame builder who will measure you up really accurately.  When I had my Roberts made I was amazed at the attention to detail in the measuring.  I had expected a jig but instead found they personally measured what felt like every bone and joint to joint distance I had.  Admittedly, expensive but, for me, it has been easily worth every penny.
Best of luck
                          Jane

[annie]

Tim - how do you manage to come up with such wonderful ideas.  I shall be climbing up on the table in a few minutes.

Jane - the bike was specially built but I now think that attention to detail was lacking when you mention the effort that went into measuring you for your bike.  Although I paid a substantial amount of money for the bike I think I will have to look at something different.

[Thor]

June's Cycling Plus includes a test of summer - mostly bib - shorts.  They comment as follows on the De Marchi Contour Evolution Bib

...features two whacking great pads located right under your sit bones.  The increase in comfort this provides is instantly noticable...

This might help, but a quick look at the De Marchi website suggests that the female-specific shorts do not feature the same design.  So the questions is whether the small size Contour Evolutions would fit Annie.

Annie commented earlier that she feels that she has to push herself back on the saddle.  Someone else said that she looks too stretched out on the bike.  These two observations are consistent - I felt like this on a road bike and found that a shorter stem and saddle set as far forward as it will go helped me to locate better on the saddle.

[annie]

June's Cycling Plus includes a test of summer - mostly bib - shorts.  They comment as follows on the De Marchi Contour Evolution Bib

...features two whacking great pads located right under your sit bones.  The increase in comfort this provides is instantly noticable...

This might help, but a quick look at the De Marchi website suggests that the female-specific shorts do not feature the same design.  So the questions is whether the small size Contour Evolutions would fit Annie.

Annie commented earlier that she feels that she has to push herself back on the saddle.  Someone else said that she looks too stretched out on the bike.  These two observations are consistent - I felt like this on a road bike and found that a shorter stem and saddle set as far forward as it will go helped me to locate better on the saddle.

Thank you Thor.  I have a new stem and seat post so am in a much better position now, not so stretched out on the bike.  I tried some men's bib shorts on the other day and they were huge (in a small size).  I have some women's De Marchi shorts.

[Adam]

Tim - how do you manage to come up with such wonderful ideas.  I shall be climbing up on the table in a few minutes.

Sounds like Tim's tried something like this before, on a photocopier I think......... 

[giropaul]

I too have saddle "issues" - partly in my case due to weight I'm sure. One symtom is a huge amount of soft perineal tissue swelling, but the specialist seems to think that as it is all soft that it is OK. An ultrasound confirmed the diagnosois - basically if you sit on a saddle a long time the body will firstly swell to protect, and then lay down tissue for the same reason.

But; to get back to your specific problem - I just wonder whether you have been using smaller gears than you maybe used to ?

I'm sure that is one the things that has caused my problem. If you are heaving big gears you are, in effect, pushing yourself up off the saddle (Newton's laws etc). You also tend to stand up more often.

On smaller gears more weight is on the saddle. Maybe your tandem ride used smaller gears, or at least you were spinning more.

[annie]

Just found this quote from one of the rides last September

The bikini never got to be worn, the sea was not welcoming and both Wow and I agreed that we may end up in France if we were to take a dip so decided to skip and head off for lunch.

I have rather interesting bruising to my sit bones and more swelling but ice packs have been aplenty and all will be well in a few days.

Pain allowing I would have repeated that ride all over again today.

[Martin109]

Annie, I'm sorry you're having this difficulty.

I remember you had some discomfort when you stoked for me on the Random Tandem Ride last September.  You brought your own saddle.  Did you experience the same problem then too?

[gonzo]

Some thoughts;
1) Are you sure the saddle's at the right height? Too low and you put too much weight on it and things get painful quickly. If you're regularly changing saddles, the height at the top will regularly change.
2) What shorts do you use? Was it you who didn't get on with cycling shorts? If in doubt, splash out and get Assos. They are market leaders for a reason

I found that when I was riding long distances, I'd naurally take some of the loading off my arse by sort of lifting myself out of the saddle without actually leaving the saddle. More recently, I've found that I need my shorts to hold my cheeks together to get really comfortable.

One final thought; why not get a suspension seat pin if it's that much of a problem?

[annie]

I have Assos shorts and wore them last year.  I have just ordered an Assos Bib Short Suit, looks ideal for me, I will see how that goes. 

I have noticed that on some of my rides, I too have started to hover just above the saddle for short periods, think it might be when I am climbing.

I have been using the Brooks for some time now, had the height looked at in great detail but there is a chance it might be too low.  Will look again as it is set up on the turbo.

Martin 109 - can't remember how my bum was after the tandem ride last year.  Will see if I can find the report.

Judging by the dimple in my Brooks, it is only visible on the right side, I wouldn't need to go for a narrower saddle as my sit bones would then be hanging over the edge.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

There's a B17 S which is a women's specific version, narrower than the standard. There's also a B17 narrow which is narrower again.

From the Brooks website:
B17S - 177 mm wide, 245 mm long
B17 Standard - 170 mm wide, 280 mm long
B17 Narrow - 155 mm wide, 280 mm long

[Sergeant Pluck]

But; to get back to your specific problem - I just wonder whether you have been using smaller gears than you maybe used to ?On smaller gears more weight is on the saddle. Maybe your tandem ride used smaller gears, or at least you were spinning more.

I'd bet that is a factor, as Annie seems to prefer the large ring  on her own bike.
I shall add this to my Theory of Annie's Bottom forthwith.

[epa611]

Hi Annie,

Sorry to hear you're having so much trouble with your undercarriage

I seem to remember that Specialized shops have a machine that can measure the distance between your sit bones and can then recommend a saddle to suit.  Might be worth a day trip to one of them (only one I can think of is in The Fort at Birmingham).

Worth a try......

[edit to add link below - 4/5 reply down]

Here's a link from the CTC forum with Paul Smith talking about Specialized shops and saddle measuring

HTH. 

[clarion]

But; to get back to your specific problem - I just wonder whether you have been using smaller gears than you maybe used to ?On smaller gears more weight is on the saddle. Maybe your tandem ride used smaller gears, or at least you were spinning more.

I'd bet that is a factor, as Annie seems to prefer the large ring  on her own bike.
I shall add this to my Theory of Annie's Bottom forthwith.

Is that really correct - I'd guess that with the strain of pumping a larger gear, there is more movement, and possibly more pressure involved.  It is true that the bum doesn't move so much if using lower gears.

[chris]

Padding - sometimes less is more. I gave up with padded shorts, as I find them uncomfortable after about 50 miles. I know that we're both built very differently (as well as being male, I must weigh about 2.5 times as much as Annie, and I must put a lot more weight on my sit bones), but it might be worth trying riding without padding, just to see if it makes any difference.