Cross Training: Running

[border-rider]

I'm going to give it a go tomorrow, but it was hard to walk in places today cos it was so deep.  I dunno what running will be like.  Maybe easier, if it has frozen...

[Frenchie]

The main issue, I find, with thick snow is that the top of the shoe can get covered in snow which in melting and over time leads to wet feet, even with good off road shoes. But other than that I find that little beats cold, in the snow off-road or trail running.

[mike]

yes, my feet were absolutely frozen by the time I got back but it's only 45 minutes of cold, well worth it IMHO

[Rich753]

My feet very rarely get cold running - only exception is hillrunning through melting snow which is a purgatorial experience.

Current condition round us are absolutely fantastic for running.  Very cold, which gives beautifully clear air, and some untreated roads that provide a lovely firm but forgiving surface with that wonderful "snow-squeak"!

Mind you 45 mins in -12 did give me frozen cheeks - wouldn't have wanted to be out much longer.

[Frenchie]

Lovely run yesterday afternoon with my good friend Julian; 45', felt cold too, but the snow offered a great footing and made the route very pretty. I felt lazy today and didn't go out; more tomorrow I hope!

PS Lovely route (pictures) MV.

[Frenchie]

Damn weather: I wanted to run off road tonight having arrived home not so late; well I would have been better off sticking to the roads as the paths I went alon were ice rinks! I eventually rejoined the road but with trail shoes that wasn't great.

Lessons: (1) Must dig out spikes next time around or (2) must stick to the road; alternatively use spikes and go to the track! It'll be boring but safe! 

[mike]

I bought some innov8 trainers at the weekend (these ones, I think: Inov-8 running shoes, mens and womens shoes for fell, trail running, orienteering and free running , because they were the only ones the shop had in a size 12).  The difference in grip was amazing, ice was still a no-go, but slush and icy snow were a piece of cake.   Very pleased with them and they should keep me going through the muddy thaw too.

[border-rider]

I've got some New Balance Off Road shoes, and they're very good on snow.  The mesh uppers aren't ideal though...

[Frenchie]

I use Adidas trail shoes (and have some Adidas road shoes as well for the matter) and am very pleased with them for road, grass, mud and snow runs (though they are stiff on the road as most such shoes are, in particular if they have rock guards in the sole); on polished ice though, only spikes would have done last night!

Inov-8 do get a good press as a specialist off road and moutain running company.

[Sigurd Mudtracker]

I have a hall full of Inov-8s and rank them highly.  In fact over the last 5 weeks I've pretty much exclusively been wearing either Gore-Tex Roclites or Mudroc "O"s with Sealskinz socks as the only thing to keep me going in the snow.

We're still inundated: thinking that the snow was clearing, I headed off up into the forest today, fed up of the same route along the only semi-cleared quiet country road in the area.  Unfortunately I was confronted with 5 miles of shin-deep snow with a frozen crust that was so tough to run in that just trying to walk got me into my target heart rate range, and a run that took nearly twice as long as normal.

Despite the frustration, I was amazed that although I was the only biped who'd been along these tracks for weeks, the local wildlife had been very active.  There was a profusion of even quite recent tracks crossing the trail, suggesting a hive of activity which is normally quite invisible to me on my daily treks.

[Blah]

I've got some New Balance Off Road shoes, and they're very good on snow.  The mesh uppers aren't ideal though...

The idea of the mesh uppers is that in most multi terrain races, you'll be going through a ditch or some kind of water feature. The focus is then on getting the water out of the shoe as quickly as possible. I've never understood why you'd want to make a running shoe even remotely waterproof, although I am enjoying my nearly unused gore-text Innov8's that I got second hand for next to nothing

[Greenbank]

And so it begins. 20 minutes on the treadmill at 10.5kph (1^o incline).

After 5 minutes my HR was up to 172bpm and usual cardiac drift took it up to 190bpm by the end. Joy upon joy. Guess I'm not as fit as I was a few months ago. My total distance run in 2010 is greater than my total distance cycled so far. Forgot my Forerunner chest strap so I can't tell for sure about the HR, had to resort to backup old Polar and the readout on the treadmill itself.

Someone had replaced the usual trance-shit CD with an Akon album, I only realised 30 seconds into my run. That's some drivel to listen to for 19 and a half minutes. Must remember to bring in mp3 player with my choice of music on it and leave it in my locker.

[geraldc]

I'm following a guide on heart rate training, so I have to try keep my heart rate between 130 - 140 bpm. It results in amazingly slow runs (even for me), but it doesn't kill your legs which is awesome!

[Greenbank]

Ooh, the BBC have picked up on Tough Guy.

BBC News - In pictures: Tough Guy Challenge

I've done it twice, 1999 and 2000. Great fun (in hindsight).

[andygates]

Started running in vff's.  Up to a whole kilometer now.  Calves like wood.  Progress to be anticipated..!

[mattc]

ooh, interesting! Are you more POSE or heel-strike? What gives out first at this magic kilometre mark?

[andygates]

I started running very much in the shoe-of-a-thousand-technologies school.  Flirted with forefoot but never got into it.  I've been treating the vff a bit like a fixie - a funny training aid and cool pose. 

With the vff's I'm completely on the ball of the foot, slightly outside - everything comes from there, with the calf working like a spring and heel just dabbing the ground before the drive.  It feels faster over the ground (longer effective leg?) but I haven't timed it.

Nothing gives out, so much as I have an absurd calf pump and have to stop - it's purely conditioning, not biomechanics.  The DOMS lasts around five days at this stage (bear in mind that I'm a heavy runner - 100kg at present - and haven't been running since my knee problem in early November). 

[mattc]

Ah OK. I've recently**  switched to POSE running, but in my case I think I've ended up running rather like your desccriptiuon (I think POSE allows for a range of contact sequences, but anyway ... ). I've stuck with middish-range cushioned* shoes, rather than your trendy things, but I am interested in the various minimalist shoes.

That knackered-calves feeling is exactly what I got the last time I restarted running after months of just cycling. I'm lighter than you, and managed a cautions 15mins (which is hopefully more than 1k!). Calves still ached like billy-o afterward, and I'd barely got out of breath.

* (I haven't read a convincing explanation of why cushioned shoes are actually _bad_ for you with POSE, so I'll stick with the shoes that fit me for now).
** (2 years but very few miles.)

[Rich753]

Be really interested to see how you get on with the vff shoes - seem to me to be pretty sound biomechanically.  Closer to barefoot is better!  Maybe you saw this ...
         Video: Running barefoot may mean fewer injuries than wearing trainers |
            Science |
            guardian.co.uk
   

I'm confused about POSE running (similar to chi running?).  The theory sounds bizarre - how can gravity help, makes no sense - but the practice seems sound.  Again, hope you keep us up to date on your progress.

[mattc]

I'm confused about POSE running (similar to chi running?).  The theory sounds bizarre - how can gravity help, makes no sense - but the practice seems sound.  Again, hope you keep us up to date on your progress.

Like most complicated subjects, there is a lot of drivel written by a lot of people! Of course gravity doesn't help!
I basically think of it as reducing the impediments to forward motion. Plus I see a an analogy with high-cadence pedalling - it seems intuitively obvious that a higher cadence means less impact per step/cycle, so less wear on joints etc.

[andygates]

(You simply cannot heel-strike in vff's, it's impossible.  Gait adjusts automagically)

The cycling cadence analogy isn't precise.  You're load-bearing, which is what caught me out on the Druid.  Now the Druid was all about time, but I wonder how much turnover has to play.  Probably it holds, but not necessarily...

Calves are a LOT better today than they were after run #1. 

[Rich753]

Andy,

would appreciate more detail on your choice of vff model - which one and why, and where did you get them?  how did you find the sizing? 

[andygates]

I have the red Sprints.  I figured the strap would keep them on when wallowing in bogs, etc.  KSO is too shoe-y IMO and web comments on the classic said they sometimes came off when, well, wallowing in bogs.  The strap doesn't rub egregiously though YMMV. 

I am usually a size 45; in VFF I'm 42.  I got 'em from fitnessfootwear.com and to get the sizing right, used the official size guide here: Vibram Five Fingers: Discover the Barefooting Alternative I found sizing just fine - I have broadish flattish feet without any mutant toes or talons. 

The red is truly atomic tart's-knickers red.  On feet it's not sporty so much as brazen - I'd have chosen the more muted taupe/clay if I'd seen them first. 

VFFs do get stinky.  Bung 'em in the wash.  They're designed for it.

[Rich753]

Great, thanks.

I thought the mesh over the top of the KSOs would keep bits of grit etc out - but you haven't hd a problem like that?  Your feet sound similar to mine, broadish and flattish!

and thanks for the colour advice - 

[andygates]

I haven't really run in super-gritty places.  The KSO was added to the range after exactly that feedback.