SS GB

[Jakob W]

I blame Scandi Noir and 'The Wire'. Once that style become the norm, everything follows it. I heard someone on the radio saying that the German diction in SS GB is actually very good. A bit like the over-articulated 'English' accents in US shows. Who can forget Daphne Moon and her 'Manchester' accent in Frasier? I'm used to Americans not understanding a word unless I do RP.

I wouldn't have said the German was over-articulated or stagey; for instance in the scenes where Huth is on the phone it's quite clipped. But the only extended dialogue in German is by characters who are meant to be educated officers, so their accents are fairly RP.

(I didn't notice the other sound as being particularly bad, but then I pretty much always watch telly late with the sound down and subtitles on so as not to wake the rest of the household.)

[red marley]

I've yet to watch it but am looking forward to doing so.

Someone on the radio pointed out that the UK is one of the few countries in Europe that has not been invaded within living memory.

<coughs>

What about the Channel Islands?

What about them? They were invaded and are not part of the UK.

[Martin]

looked forward to it having heard about the book in 1978 and not read it; a good bit of "what if" but knowing nothing about the story I'm expecting the Invasion alternative reality just to be a backdrop for yet another detective story, but hoping to be surprised.

agree about the mumbling although I wasn't one of the 100s who complained to the Beeb

If you believe the theories about the Battle of Britain and the Blitz we were 3 days away from this actually happening before Hitler changed tack.

[Exit Stage Left]

I watched the whole of the Poliakoff series 'Close to the Enemy', so I don't feel inclined to watch something similar. That was about how we accommodated ourselves to guilt-tinged Germans, because it was expedient to do so. It was quite a trek to watch the whole lot, and in the end Tom Lehrer summed it up in less than 2 minutes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjDEsGZLbio

[redshift]

Full disclosure: I've read the book, about a thousand years ago.  I haven't watched any of it, and don't intend to.

Mumbling.  Currently, there are a few things in TV-land that may be relevant. 

1. People who don't enunciate adequately (there's a list...).  It's perfectly possibly to have a non-rp voice which enunciates correctly.  I was trained to project and enunciate, and it happens automatically if I raise my voice, even more than 30 years later.  It's a technique thing, so either they don't teach it any more, or people don't bother.

2. Dubbing mixers who listen on their fuck-off expensive surround sound kit and don't check audio on their cheapie-cheap near-field monitors*, which leads on to

3. R128, whereby the EBU and others have decided that it's OK to expand the dynamic range of television shows, as long as the overall loudness remains within certain limits over the duration of the show.  The dynamic range of TV used to be fairly constrained, and vox and FX were ridden as required to keep the vox at a fairly consistent level.  The advent of R128 means that you now have to ride the volume control at home, and you end up with the movie problem where you get the vox to the right level just in time for the FX to break your windows.

*Assuming you can find a mixer who can actually mix, and actually listens, rather than someone who does it all at home on the meters and the plugins on their hooky copy of Pro-Tools, and then emails the file.**

** Jaded and cynical?  you betcha.

[caerau]

I've yet to watch it but am looking forward to doing so.

Someone on the radio pointed out that the UK is one of the few countries in Europe that has not been invaded within living memory. And as such we have not had to face the "what would you do?" question that many Europeans (or their parents/grandparents) have had to deal with. The ambiguity of the protagonist in SS GB supposedly reflects the pull between collaboration and resistance that at least in theory could make a compelling drama.

<coughs>

What about the Channel Islands?

A visit to Guersney is very illuminating on that front - far more interesting place to visit than I had anticipated because of this, plus all the concrete bunkers and stuff are still intact as noone ever bothered to try and overcome the defences militarily.  Very spooky and quite scary seeing Nazi propoganda written in English 

[Legs]

A visit to Guersney is very illuminating on that front - far more interesting place to visit than I had anticipated because of this, plus all the concrete bunkers and stuff are still intact as noone ever bothered to try and overcome the defences militarily.  Very spooky and quite scary seeing Nazi propoganda written in English 

Seconded.

[spesh]

I just wish Mr Deighton hadn't nuxed any repeat showing or video release of "Game, Set & Match" coz I thought it was rather good.

I did not know that - I'd wondered why I'd been unable to find it; I think one of my copies of the books is a TV tie-in edition.

I'll just leave this here - nicked from elsewhere: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmRu2axUu2LEP_4XGpFFuGwxjh3SYu9or

[mattc]

I don't know about the technology, but have watched tv/movies/theatre and spoken to big rooms.

Mumbling.  Currently, there are a few things in TV-land that may be relevant. 

1. People who don't enunciate adequately (there's a list...).  It's perfectly possibly to have a non-rp voice which enunciates correctly.  I was trained to project and enunciate, and it happens automatically if I raise my voice, even more than 30 years later.  It's a technique thing, so either they don't teach it any more, or people don't bother.

2...
<techy stuff about mixing etc etc ... >

Yup, some of the cast members are guilty of shite enunciation (in a variety of accents). I suspect this trend has come about not because actors aren't trained properly, but more because the casting agents/producers in modern TV/movie land don't care, so an actor has more to gain from an "interesting" performance than a technically good one.

The early scenes in Ep1 featured a lot of chat between those two mumblers. The Scottish guy (Harry?) wasn't nearly as bad as the lead, but I confess that to my ear his accent didn't help things much. There were a couple of sentences from the English guy that I didn't hear a word of, but most scenes were audible.

If you'd just shown me a trailer made up those scenes, and I watched it in a noisy environment, I suspect I wouldn't have watched this programme!


As television? Hmm. Not sure about Ep1, we'll probably try another ...

[Wascally Weasel]

I just wish Mr Deighton hadn't nuxed any repeat showing or video release of "Game, Set & Match" coz I thought it was rather good.

I did not know that - I'd wondered why I'd been unable to find it; I think one of my copies of the books is a TV tie-in edition.

I'll just leave this here - nicked from elsewhere: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLmRu2axUu2LEP_4XGpFFuGwxjh3SYu9or

I like Ian Holm as an actor but he really wasn't how I imagined Samson - he's a bit of a bruiser isn't he (in appearance if not action).  I'll happily give those a watch though, thanks.

[Tigerrr]

I think the actors mumble deliberately because it is a way of scenestealiing. If done right it attracts disproportionate attention and gives the appearance of authenticity and depth which can be seen as 'great acting'. Like the use of silence in Pinter etc. It is a technique to manipulate the audience, and possibly the other actors.
I quite enjoyed the show though and will watch more.

[mattc]

OMG. Why did YACF not point this out???!???

http://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/769430/SS-GB-BBC-huge-blunder-WRONG-spitfire-WW2-drama-BBC-One-WWII-Mk-IX-Len-Deighton

HUGE blunder.

I'm with this twitter user:

"That was an older 1943 Mk9 Spitfire. That's means I'm out! Inaccurate in the first minute #SSGB,"

[spesh]

The biggest inaccuracy in SS-GB is that an invasion of Great Britain in 1940 would have been successful.

[mattc]

I think the actors mumble deliberately because it is a way of scenestealiing. If done right it attracts disproportionate attention and gives the appearance of authenticity and depth which can be seen as 'great acting'. Like the use of silence in Pinter etc. It is a technique to manipulate the audience, and possibly the other actors.
I quite enjoyed the show though and will watch more.

I vaguely remember Mark Rylance saying this about some big US star he had worked with. De Niro?? No, probably someone younger, but of a similar status.
Rylance said he eventually started copying the guy, which really freaked him out 

(The funny thing is that MR usually seems to be speaking very quietly on telly, but I think that's part of his amazing skilz. He is certainly never difficult to hear  )

[Martin]

A visit to Guersney is very illuminating on that front - far more interesting place to visit than I had anticipated because of this, plus all the concrete bunkers and stuff are still intact as noone ever bothered to try and overcome the defences militarily.  Very spooky and quite scary seeing Nazi propoganda written in English 

Seconded.

these are well worth checking out too;http://www.ciosjersey.org.uk/  they don't open that often as they are run by volunteers but much better than the Underground Hospital Ho8 (which has now renamed itself as it was probably never intended to be a hospital)

I used to be in SubBrit and one of their members informed me with some conviction that the various tunnel systems on the islands would have become extermination camps for the islanders themselves had the war turned a different way....

Alderney was home to a lot more barbarism as they moved all the islanders off and just used forced labour mostly Eastern European POWs

[Jakob W]

Surprised that the Express journo has enough of a sense of humour to write an article like that taking the piss; of course it will sail over the heads of most of their readers...

(I did wonder about the CGI Spit they used in the opening sequence; the wingtips look off to me, almost like they've gone for something between a mk.VII and a mk.IX, but then if I let myself get wound up by details like this I'd never watch anything.)

[Robh]

I did wonder about the opening sequence at the time. The model Spitfires silhouetted against the pale backdrop seemed to wobble as they were being manipulated, in a way that they could not have done if they'd been the real thing.

Plus, I thought the dialogue was riddled with lazy cliches.

[caerau]

So no chat about this today?


I thought the plot thickened very nicely in last night's one.


Thought the first was perhaps a little slow but interesting - after last night's it's now a must-see for us 


Lots of alternate history implications I hadn't considered at first but of course massively interesting.


Then there was an excellent thing about a British officer landing in the USA and claiming to be 'the leader of the Free British'. Cue me saying to my wife 'Ooh, that's just like de Gaulle did in reality' -  followed immediately on-screen by the characters saying 'did you hear about that French officer de Gaulle doing something like that here after France fell?  Nothing came of it of course...' 


Anyway, maybe it's just me but I thought this got a LOT better last night.

[pcolbeck]

Who's the journalist working for, the OSS, the Gestapo, the Abwehr. MI5 or MI6 or is she just a journalist ?

No spoilers please as I haven't read the book but proper guesses are OK.

[bryn]

A visit to Guersney is very illuminating on that front - far more interesting place to visit than I had anticipated because of this, plus all the concrete bunkers and stuff are still intact as noone ever bothered to try and overcome the defences militarily.  Very spooky and quite scary seeing Nazi propoganda written in English 

Seconded.

these are well worth checking out too;http://www.ciosjersey.org.uk/  they don't open that often as they are run by volunteers but much better than the Underground Hospital Ho8 (which has now renamed itself as it was probably never intended to be a hospital)

I used to be in SubBrit and one of their members informed me with some conviction that the various tunnel systems on the islands would have become extermination camps for the islanders themselves had the war turned a different way....

Alderney was home to a lot more barbarism as they moved all the islanders off and just used forced labour mostly Eastern European POWs

In his 1995 book "From Auschwitz to Alderney and Beyond" Tom Freeman-Keel suggested that the underground sites in Jersey would have become extermination camps for large numbers of victims from the UK mainland, where it could be carried out far from prying eyes - rather like "resettlement in the East".  Some years since I last read it, but I think he claimed architectural similarities with aspects of Auschwitz.  Caution: none of this is generally accepted.

[Mr Larrington]

Only just watched ep. 2 but it's definitely a grower.  And staying pretty true to the book too, which is a bonus.  I've also worked out that Standartenführer Huth is all the more disagreeable, even for a Nazi, because he reminds me of tax-dodging Tory stooge Frederick Forsyth.

[bryn]

I found the paperback lurking on my shelves with lots of other Len Deightons, 1980 edition as the yellowing pages show.

The BBC have done a very good job in adapting the book to the (used-to-be) small screen; the book plot is followed very closely.  The book of course has more space to explain what's-really-going-on rather than leaving it as an exercise for the viewer.

The book also fills in more detail about the differences between the Army, the SS, the SD, SIPO, the Gestapo, the SA, the Abwehr etc.  I hope you're all paying attention, there's going to be a test at the end of it.  Brushing up on your nuclear physics wouldn't go amiss either. 

Bryn

[Exit Stage Left]

I've never been attracted by 'alternative histories' but the Wiki resume of the plot had me intrigued. It seems to envisage a partitioning of the UK between the Nazis and the Soviet Union, which puts a different complexion on things. I hadn't realised that the director of the TV series is German, which might explain why the German dialogue is clearer than the English.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/mediapacks/ss-gb/kadelbach

There's a review from the Berlin Film Festival in the Hollywood Reporter. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/review/ss-gb-review-976246

My immediate thoughts about that are 'What happens to the Japanese?'. The Soviets would have been freed to take more of a role in the Pacific, and end up clashing with the USA sooner.

[caerau]

Well I've not read the book but Pearl Harbour (I think) won't have happened yet?  It doesn't need to have anything to do with that in the plot at all.  it's about the UK mostly.  Fund to speculate though.

[Exit Stage Left]

The Molotov Ribbentrop pact would still have been in force, and the USA had some interesting eugenics policies, hence this bit.

Hitler held a victory parade in London, the Soviet Red Fleet was given bases at Rosyth, Scapa Flow and Invergordon, and Hermann Göring and Joseph Goebbels were on board the first non-stop Lufthansa flight from London to New York City

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS-GB

Germany and the Soviet Union were loosely allied at that point. Britain might have been partitioned as Poland was. That's the part of the equation that gets ignored. But the Dominions would have less affected. Australia under Soviet control would be an interesting idea.