Author Topic: Average riding speed and body weight  (Read 9727 times)

Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #25 on: 10 August, 2021, 09:49:40 pm »
So it's possible that weight loss would have made a difference - except that it coincides (understandably) with your going on medication - which I assume include beta-blockers?

PS Correct use of So as in "therefore" to start the sentence - definitely not gobbledespeke.

Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #26 on: 10 August, 2021, 10:09:55 pm »
I don't think that the beta blockers are helping, but I've always been like that. I just seem to have this limit on hills, at which I just have to plod up. I've developed a sudden interest in heart rate (strange that!), but I don't seem to hit maximum on the steepest hills.

Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #27 on: 10 August, 2021, 10:19:28 pm »
Interesting bit of number crunching there Phil.

Isn’t it? Shows how much putting the effort in uphill makes to your average speed. Making up with more effort on the flattish bits doesn’t really compensate if slow uphill.

Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #28 on: 10 August, 2021, 11:27:21 pm »
Phil, this is for a sample of one.  There is no need for the rest of us to give up our dreams (or nightmares in my current case)!

essexian

Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #29 on: 11 August, 2021, 07:06:31 am »
I've not posted for a long time as, well frankly until earlier this month I wasn't a cyclist anymore.

Back in 2015 I went on a diet with the help of a glastic band and exercise coming down from 131kg to, eventually 89.9kg. My fitness increased from an average speed of 12mph, to just over 14mph. I even managed to do Ride London and several other 100km efforts.

All good.... until the end of 2017 when issues at work brought about some mental health problems which meant cycling dropped down the list of things I wanted to do. Indeed, I actually didn't want to do anything other than sit in my room and want the world to go away. So, my cycling went from around 5 000km a year, to less than 400km a year by the end of 2018.

Then in the summer of 2019, I was quite ill with a gout attack which lasted nearly 2 months (I am still suffering the after effects that it!), while my back decided to play up putting me in bed for a long period. After an MRI, it was discovered that three discs on the L/S boundary have "gone" meaning I can no longer walk more than a few hundred yards without pain.

So...the lack of exercise and a hatred for the World resulted in me turning to the only thing I love (apart from "the Wife" of course) food and my weight has increased once again to 121kg. Determined to do something about it, I have been out on my bike again almost every day this month. What is shocking but understandable is how my ability to do distances has disappeared: my longest ride so far is 15.7 miles while my average speed had dropped to just over 10mph. I have dragged it back over 11 mph yesterday (well, 11.08mph but I'll take any win I can get!) while my power seems to be heading in the right direction as its increased from an average of 80w to 102w.

A long way to go but I'll get there. My one question is however, should I get an ebike? Part of me would like one but another part thinks that they would not really help and it's the pain of struggling up hills which makes it all worthwhile in the end. "The wife" thinks I am mad either way!

Thanks for listening.


Auntie Helen

  • 6 Wheels in Germany
Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #30 on: 11 August, 2021, 07:22:53 am »
Hi Essexian,

Sorry to hear of your woes.

I have an E-trike and an E-velomobile now (had motors fitted to both my bikes) and I wouldn’t go back.

The motors take away the fear that you will overreach yourself. You are out riding, your legs feel crap but that’s ok as you can dial up the assistance. Legs feel good, switch the motor off. I don’t have to go into hill-avoidance mode now.

The motor in the Velomobile is not as useful as you might think as I am usually past 25 km an hour within about eight seconds of starting, so the motor switches off then, but it still helps me at traffic lights and on hills to keep the momentum going. Average cruising speed with my velomobile is about 30 km an hour so I am not using the motor that much of the time but it still made an enormous difference to my willingness to actually go out.

With my electric trike the motor is always on if I want as we rarely ride faster than 25 km an hour, but it means I can adjust my speed to ride with my partner who is faster. It also means if there is a shocking headwind and you’re feeling a bit crap you can counteract it.

The motor really means that you ride at a consistent speed whatever your leg or the weather conditions are, as you get used to how fast the world goes by.

One thing I have noticed is that it is extremely difficult to reduce the power whilst out riding, so I always start on the minimum and try not to increase power unless I really want it. If you go from setting 3 to setting 2 it feels like you have the brakes partly on!

The motors rescued my cycling as I was really struggling riding with men who were so fast and was on the verge of giving up. I still find it difficult riding with men in Velomobiles  as they are so fast but I don’t do that so often now.

I am still burning a lot of calories with my cycling as the motor is not replacing all my effort. But it has more of an effect in that it means I am actually out cycling, whereas without the motor I probably wouldn’t have ventured out, so it is definitely a health win for me.
My blog on cycling in Germany and eating German cake – http://www.auntiehelen.co.uk


T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #31 on: 11 August, 2021, 08:13:56 am »
Mahle's eBikeMotion motors come with a phone app that can turn the motor on and off according to your heart rate.  The battery is only 250 Wh, though, and the reserve battery occupies a bottle cage, which is a no-no for me. Oh, and you need to make sure your phone can pick up the ANT+ signal from your HRM - you can get USB dongles for this but they still have to work.

As a yardstick, on my last 100k (870 metres climbed, no motor) my total weight incl. bike, water & kit was 87 kg and my total output was ~600 Wh; however, my energy output above 140 bpm was only ~125 Wh, so with 250 Wh and a Mahle motor I'd be laughing. With a flatter course I'd probably get 200k out of it.  My knees and ankles would thank me, too.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #32 on: 11 August, 2021, 09:22:15 am »
Essexian, I think that an ebike would really help you.

When we have been capable of long rides in the past, it is dispiriting to start again from near nothing. Our head wants us to roll along the road all day; the body can't meet those expectations. That is quite a difficult barrier to overcome.

I see ebikes as enablers, not crutches.
<i>Marmite slave</i>

Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #33 on: 11 August, 2021, 12:32:03 pm »
Great data there Phil, thanks for that. (reluctantly notes to self that hills must be ground up with increased effort)

Essexian, plus one for  Ebike.  If it gets you out there in the fresh air and gets the bod moving its good for the heart and soul. Increased range, more variety, new horizons and adventures. :thumbsup:
often lost.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #34 on: 11 August, 2021, 01:36:43 pm »
Back when fitness was the limiting factor, we found that fitting a motor to barakta's trike meant she could do a much more interesting (and therefore motivating) ride for the same level of exertion.  No having to avoid hills, better able to deal with traffic, etc.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #35 on: 11 August, 2021, 04:38:38 pm »
I think physiology comes into it as well. I'm about five years younger than Wow. I've lost a couple of stone over the last two years, since a heart bypass, so I'm also on meds. I'm cleared to push myself, but I've never been one of the fastest riders, and I've always been really slow on hills. I just have a gradient at which things stop, and I can only grind my way up. When I was young, that was maybe 1:10. Now it's nearer 1:100 :-[ Even in those younger days, I once got dropped in the neutralised zone of a road race :-[ :-[ :-[

So the weight loss really isn't making much difference, because I still hit that maximum gradient at which effort makes no difference, and then disappear off the back of any group and gradually wind my way up the hill.
You might have swept up by the broom waggon in every race but the fact that you entered makes you faster than almost everybody who didn't enter.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #36 on: 11 August, 2021, 05:23:56 pm »
You might have swept up by the broom waggon in every race but the fact that you entered makes you faster than almost everybody who didn't enter.

A proven technique.   :thumbsup:

Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #37 on: 11 August, 2021, 06:42:33 pm »
There's a whole bunch of my recent commutes that would have been train rather than bike were it not for my motor. Psychological more than physiological sure but eh. And an assisted ride is still more exercise than sitting on the train after all.
Miles cycled 2014 = 3551.5 (Target 7300 :()
Miles cycled 2013 = 6141.4
Miles cycled 2012 = 4038.1

Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #38 on: 11 August, 2021, 07:22:43 pm »
You might have swept up by the broom waggon in every race but the fact that you entered makes you faster than almost everybody who didn't enter.
Sadly, I don't recall ever progressing to races of a sufficient standard to have a broom wagon...

essexian

Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #39 on: 13 August, 2021, 12:13:50 pm »
Thanks for your comments.

I have spoken to the Financial Controller who has agreed that I can buy an e-bike as long as we have a new bathroom fitted.

Bike ordered.....  ;D

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #40 on: 13 August, 2021, 01:14:54 pm »
The other day I thought I’d give it a real go and the result was 14.5 and I arrived home dripping in sweat. Curiously enough, when I go out on my Audax bike (about 3kg lighter than my Croix de Fer) I achieve much the same type of speed improvement but with far less effort but I still haven’t managed to break or even get near to the 15mph level. I think there is a strong law of diminishing returns on this topic  :thumbsup:

I think Phil's number-crunching demonstrates that increasing your effort is the only way to get faster. If you want to go faster on the Audax bike, you need to put in the same level of effort as you do on the CdF.

The good news is that losing weight should also improve your cardiovascular function, and thus make it possible to sustain higher levels of effort for longer.

But it takes practice too. Or "training", if you prefer. If you want to push your average past that 15mph mark, you need to get into the habit of riding more often and pushing yourself a little bit harder, for a little bit longer.

Insert Greg Lemond quote here.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #41 on: 13 August, 2021, 01:23:23 pm »
My one question is however, should I get an ebike? Part of me would like one but another part thinks that they would not really help and it's the pain of struggling up hills which makes it all worthwhile in the end.

For me, this is a no-brainer - as long as you can justify the outlay.

I encountered a couple of mature e-bike riders on an outing recently. Had a brief chat with them about their bikes. As one of them said, "It allows me to go further." They also open up more route possibilities for you, because eg you don't have to avoid the hills.

E-bikes are enabling. They make it possible to do something you enjoy. And this is going to make you more motivated to actually get out and do it.

Also, e-bikes aren't cheating - you still have to put in a fair bit of effort.
https://www.cyclescheme.co.uk/community/featured/why-riding-an-e-bike-is-good-for-you
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #42 on: 20 August, 2021, 05:27:41 pm »
Welcome back, EssexIan!

I keep thinking about an e-bike, but I so love my Thorn that I don't want to be unfaithful to it yet. I think an e-bike would mean I wouldn't ride it much any more.

As I'm becoming accustomed to weighing less than 100kg, I think I detect a small speed increase. As I think I mentioned elsewhere, I've been buying myself motivating and reasonably expensive rewards for hitting weight targets. I have this notion that one day I might be below 90kg, or even below 80kg, and if that happens I think I might buy myself a decent road bike and see if I can actually ride in a group and not get dropped. I used to go out with the 40+ years ago, and I was often dropped by groups with an average age of at least 15 years more than mine.

I haven't ruled out an e-bike, but, as I say, I'm so enjoying riding my Thorn, and keeping up an average speed now at least 1mph more than I did before my weight loss, that I want to see how that progresses. Even if I do buy myself some time at a slightly higher speed, at some point anno domini will catch up. I'm 67, but I think I'm in pretty decent nick for 67.

I've always been one of the slowest cyclists when in a group. Even when a young (<30) bagger, I had to work very hard to get round the CTC 100-mile reliability ride in under 8 hours. Suddenly trying to keep up with fast riders is likely to be a fool's errand.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #43 on: 10 April, 2022, 11:21:19 pm »
Well, I'll resurrect this thread for the simple reason that I have bought an e-bike. The excellent Mr. Legge, sadly NOTP, once accused me of "conspicuous consumption" (from the saddle of his carbon Colnago, naturally) for owning a Rohloff hub. His tongue was firmly in his cheek, of course. However, I think that charge is definitely one to which I would have to plead guilty as I am now the owner of a Riese & Müller "Homage", a full suspension step-through e-bike with Rohloff hub gear, Gates belt drive, the latest Bosch motor and a 625wh battery. I contemplated going for the version with two 625wh batteries, but the example I bought was in stock at Spoke & Motor in Bury St. Edmunds, whereas there would have been a 10 week wait for the other, and an extra £1119 to pay for the battery. These batteries are not cheap, and the only ride I could think of for which such a battery might come into its own would be the Dunwich Dynamo.

My decision to buy was prompted by a 38 mile ride on my Thorn which I did a few Thursdays ago, the latter stages of which were very slow indeed, involving a long but gentle climb from the White Hart, Margaretting Tye, into Stock. I felt very knackered afterwards. I had a long think about this and decided that my Thorn, although a lovely bike and still working extremely well, doesn't owe me a thing. I've had it 16 years and I've done over 41,000 miles on it in that time. I don't think I was ever going to settle for anything less than a Rohloff, I have been thinking about a belt drive conversion for a while, and I want a battery big enough that I can do a reasonable day ride without having to charge up part way through. Everything pointed to Riese & Müller. I also have to consider that advancing age (I shall be 68 in June) means that my cycling days are probably numbered anyway. If I get 16 years out of the R & M, I shall still be riding it at 84. Something tells me that that is unlikely, so the sooner I start riding it, the better will be my value for money.

Having had a look around social media for other people riding these Monster Trucks of bikes, I found that there is quite a fraternity who, like me, have been riding Rohloff hubs almost exclusively for years. It seems to be a natural progression. So far as I can see, the only difference between my new Rohloff and my old ones is that this one is equipped with 36 spokes. Given the problems we had 15 years or so ago with our tandem's spokes pulling lumps of flange out of the hub, this must be regarded as a sensible move.

How does it ride? Beautifully! There are 4 levels of assistance: Eco, Tour, Race, Turbo. So far, I've been keeping it in Eco mode most of the time, and I think I would have no difficulty in getting 60 miles or more out of the battery in Essex-style terrain. Today, I rode from home to Paper Mill Lock and the entire outward journey was done almost entirely in Eco mode, but I bumped it up to Tour when I had to climb a hill and my speed was reduced to single figures. I used 30% of the battery and covered 35.19km at an average speed of 18.6kph. That included 348 metres of ascent. On the return, in which I rode with the homecoming CTC Sunday riders, I used Tour mode a good deal, I covered 45.2k at an average speed of 19.5kph. I arrived home with 17% left in the battery. I noticed that once the battery dropped to less than 30% full, a warning came on.

I did take the charger with me. It's fairly light and compact - much more so than the Shimano Steps version that comes with our Circe tandem. There was no need for me to try to scrounge electrons from a landlord as I felt sure I had plenty in the battery for the entire journey. However, I might well do so if I were out on a multi-day tour. A little judicious topping up at meal times seems eminently sensible. I have yet to enquire about campsites. I don't really want to go to all the expense of a hook-up at whatever they cost for 15p's worth of electricity, but sometimes finding a few buckshee electrons to keep phones topped up is an issue.

My bike comes with the "Nyon" display. This is a controlling computer with lots of functionality, including a very capable cyclist-oriented satnav. It links to my mobile phone via bluetooth and when it's working, it's seamless. However, I had an issue with it failing to sync for much of today and I found it most frustrating. It did so eventually but I have no idea what it was that was the problem, or what I did to cure it. Before setting off for Paper Mill Lock, I asked it to plot a route from home, and it found one that was very sensible and using roads I had never previously considered. I followed its suggestion and worked my way through Rayleigh along much quieter residential roads than the urban A roads I am accustomed to riding.

The bike is equipped with Schwalbe 27.5"*2.35" "Johnny Watts" mountain bike tyres which nonetheless roll well on the road. I have ridden it offroad and it just goes. It really is a joy to ride - so much so that in the 10 days I have owned it so far, I've covered 365k. That's more than half the distance I did on the Thorn in the previous 90 days of the year. Today's ride of 80k was a breeze. I could have gone a lot further if I had needed to, and it's lovely being able to keep up a decent speed. I'm no longer trying the patience of my riding colleagues with my sloth - not that anyone has ever complained, the people I ride with a too well-mannered.

The drawbacks are: weight. It weighs over 25kg and on one ride, last weekend, I had to wrestle it through a kissing gate whose "valve" was too small. I understand that some train companies have an upper weight restriction for bikes, and I believe that Serco refuse to take e-bikes on the Sleeper because they perceived that the batteries represented a fire hazard. Good job I didn't tell them about the paraffin I have taken for my camping stove! This weight also makes it a bit of a fight for one person to get it into the car. I have managed, but taking the battery out immediately reduces the weight by 4kg. The bike is fitted with top-notch Supernova lights, and they are on all the time. There is a front rack and a matching bag, but that bag can't take much luggage before it starts to obscure the light. I prefer to take 4 panniers with me when I tour, so I might invest in a front rack designed for suspension forks. The bike comes with its own lock, the Abus Bordo 6500, but so far as I can tell that is only silver-rated and the insurance company I have used insists on a gold-standard lock being used when out and about. The same key operates the Bordo lock as unlocks the battery.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #44 on: 11 April, 2022, 08:20:33 am »
Any pictures of your bike?

TimC

  • Old blerk sometimes onabike.
Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #45 on: 11 April, 2022, 08:32:50 am »
Sounds an interesting device, Wowsa, but if a spare battery is over £1k, how much was the bike!? Obvs don't answer that if you'd rather not, but I'm guessing it's as significant a drawback as the weight.

Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #46 on: 11 April, 2022, 08:37:41 am »
Wow, interesting post.  I can see me being in this position fairly soon.  Is there a reason you didn't go for a conversion kit for the Thorn, a front wheel Cytronex say?

T42

  • Apprentice geezer
Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #47 on: 11 April, 2022, 08:39:54 am »
Health to ride it, Wow - and strength to your back muscles.
I've dusted off all those old bottles and set them up straight

Wowbagger

  • Stout dipper
    • Stuff mostly about weather
Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #48 on: 11 April, 2022, 10:55:41 am »
Wow, interesting post.  I can see me being in this position fairly soon.  Is there a reason you didn't go for a conversion kit for the Thorn, a front wheel Cytronex say?

Those bottle-sized batteries would only give you a few miles’ help. You would be forever looking for somewhere to charge up and I had enough of that with the first Nissan Leaf! You couldn't do a day rise on it.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Re: Average riding speed and body weight
« Reply #49 on: 11 April, 2022, 11:10:45 am »
https://www.r-m.de/en-gb/bhe ikes/homage/

The Rohloff belt drive version starts at £7,800, a second battery I think is extra.