Advice on Wheel Build

[disrail]

I've come into the possession of some gorgeous high flanged old fashioned track hubs. 32H front and 40H rear.

The front is pretty straight forward for a 32H 3 cross build.

The rear on the other hand has a 100mm spacing (flanges are even narrower than the front!!) and I'm not sure about a 40 spoke build. The spindle however is long enought to fit in 135mm spaced dropouts.


So two questions;

Can I just pack the spindle out with nuts on either side to get the right spacing? Would there be any issues with this?

What build options would people recomend on the 40h hub? Would a lesser spoke count of 28 / 32  even be possible??

Thanks

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Provided the axle is long enough, packing out the OLN isn't a problem.

Changing the spoking pattern is likely to cause you a problem, stick with 40 spokes cross four.  You'll probably find they are the same length as the front cross three.  The flanges are likely to be thinner than current hubs, it would be prudent to use washers under the spoke heads.

[disrail]

Cool, thanks for the advice.

Building up a 40H any recomendations on a rim? I was thinking of going with Mavic Open Sports or similar for the build, but they seem to only go upto 36H.

Also can I go for very small gauge spokes as with 40 of em it should be a super strong wheel?

Why oh why did they build 40 spoke wheels in the old days 

[Ian H]

Why oh why did they build 40 spoke wheels in the old days 

Because rims were much more flexible and thin steel flanges were less forgiving.

The bigger bike shops will often be able to obtain common rims in odd drillings.

[Mr Larrington]

Why oh why did they build 40 spoke wheels in the old days 

ISTR that if you had 32 3x front and 40 4x rear, the spokes were the same length.  Obviously they didn't have ridiculous dishings in the Old Days.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Building up a 40H any recomendations on a rim? I was thinking of going with Mavic Open Sports or similar for the build, but they seem to only go upto 36H.

Also can I go for very small gauge spokes as with 40 of em it should be a super strong wheel?

I use Velocity Aeros because they are made about 30 km from my house.  The 40 hole option isn't catalogued and is the tag end of a long-ago production run unlikely to be repeated.

Sure, go as thin as you like dare.  15/16 gauge spokes were surprisingly common in 'the old days'.

[rogerzilla]

I've come into the possession of some gorgeous high flanged old fashioned track hubs. 32H front and 40H rear.

The front is pretty straight forward for a 32H 3 cross build.

The rear on the other hand has a 100mm spacing (flanges are even narrower than the front!!) and I'm not sure about a 40 spoke build. The spindle however is long enought to fit in 135mm spaced dropouts.


So two questions;

Can I just pack the spindle out with nuts on either side to get the right spacing? Would there be any issues with this?

Sort of.  You want spacers between the locknuts and the cones.  The locknuts should be tight against the cones to put these spacers into compression and reinforce the otherwise unsupported axle.

What build options would people recomend on the 40h hub? Would a lesser spoke count of 28 / 32  even be possible??

On a used hub with alloy flanges you should always stick to the original spoking pattern, probably 40 hole x4.  The front one might have been laced x2 if the original builder knew what he was doing; l/f hubs give a nasty spoke-rim angle with x3.

[zzpza]

admittedly i'm a novice in this, but couldn't you use a 36h rim and miss a hole on the hub every 1/4 turn (whilst alternating sides on the hub)?

[Phil]

Yes, that would probably work fine.  You would end up with a weaker wheel and more risk of the flange disintegrating than if you'd used matching components though. 

[oncemore]

32/42 was also a reflection of the 45/55% "ideal" weight distribution (including rider!) front to rear - 32 being 45% (near enough!) of total spoke count of 72.

[rogerzilla]

28/40 wasn't unheard of; as well as carrying less weight, remember that the front wheel is dishless and therefore inherently stronger.

[drossall]

Why oh why did they build 40 spoke wheels in the old days 

Because more weight goes on the back wheel.

A better question is why they stopped. It's generally reckoned to be because it was cheaper for the manufacturers to have 36H rims front and back - only one size to deal with.

[Martin109]

Interesting article on period wheels here.

[rogerzilla]

The Bates used as an example has a horrid paint job.  I'm not even going to mention the chain