Author Topic: A solution looking for a problem...  (Read 14020 times)

Kim

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Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #25 on: 13 May, 2021, 06:17:30 pm »
John W (? the London video guy) [...] It's perhaps telling that he seemed to be shooting it in the company of velomobilists.

That's just the nature of his interests.  He's a velomobile dealer, and his channel is mostly focused at the velomobile end of all things dark side.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #26 on: 13 May, 2021, 07:13:22 pm »
Nevertheless, velomobile riders and to an extent all forms of recumbenteers are clearly willing to break the bounds of what is generally considered a "socially normal" bicycle and therefore less likely to be offput by what many might perceive as the "glorified mobility scooter" or "C5 gone mad" looks of the Drycycle. Of course equally, the GCN crew are willing to sit around in a cafe in the middle of Bath dressed in figure-hugging gimp wear. I also thought they seemed to be getting a different sort of head turn, not quite "what the fuck is that?" but at least "ooh isn't that funny" in Bath than in central London, which I'm going to ascribe the former's more conservative nature and lower cyclist numbers but in reality is just as likely a result of the editing.

In the end it doesn't really matter any more than the pedal reflectors. If he's only making ten, he'll no doubt sell them all to (I imagine) a mixture of curious cyclists and well-heeled bike-shy commuters. Then it'll be time to reassess and maybe make a new version. The really interesting question was posed at the beginning of the GCN video: If these sold in numbers equal to conventional e-bikes, would the EAPC legislation be redrawn to exclude them / create a new class?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

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Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #27 on: 13 May, 2021, 07:17:43 pm »
In the end it doesn't really matter any more than the pedal reflectors.

Well said.


Quote
The really interesting question was posed at the beginning of the GCN video: If these sold in numbers equal to conventional e-bikes, would the EAPC legislation be redrawn to exclude them / create a new class?

Or possibly even to de-restrict them, as seems to be happening for the scooters...

Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #28 on: 15 May, 2021, 12:16:03 am »
~10:20, Hank signals left by wiping his knee with his hand.  Maybe needs to do his bikeability training.
Also, Leffe is not pronounced "Leff-eh?".
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #29 on: 15 May, 2021, 09:46:48 am »
Quote
The really interesting question was posed at the beginning of the GCN video: If these sold in numbers equal to conventional e-bikes, would the EAPC legislation be redrawn to exclude them / create a new class?

Or possibly even to de-restrict them, as seems to be happening for the scooters...
And in effect for e-bikes, given how common it is that they don't cut out at 25km/h and/or give power without pedalling. Even respectable forumites have such modified e-bikes!

Or did you mean there are legal moves afoot to officially de-restrict e-scooters? If so, spill the beans.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #30 on: 15 May, 2021, 09:58:53 am »
When the government approved escooter trials they used modified EAPC (electric assist pedal cycle) rules for the scooters. The max power was increased from 250W to 500W, the max weight was increased from 35kg to 55kg, the requirement for pedalling was removed. The max assist speed was not changed.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-local-areas-and-rental-operators/e-scooter-trials-guidance-for-local-areas-and-rental-operators#vehicledesign

I suppose its possible that some of these changes might apply to bikes in future.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #31 on: 15 May, 2021, 10:24:14 am »
Okay, I'd think of that as altering the definitions rather than derestricting. They've created a separate class of small electrically powered scooter, with slightly different regulations than electrically assisted pedal cycles (in part cos it doesn't have pedals!. In fact, they must have already created other such classes, as the Drycycle is well over 35kg (I think a weight of about 100kg was quoted in the video, though that seems absurdly high. Maybe it was 100lb? That would be about 45kg.)

In practical terms, a cargo e-bike category with power and weight similar to the e-scooter regulations would be highly practical.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #32 on: 15 May, 2021, 11:04:16 am »
The latest regulations don't have any weight limits for EAPCs. And they are now allowed to have more than 3 wheels. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles-eapcs/electrically-assisted-pedal-cycles-eapcs-in-great-britain-information-sheet

Power ratings for motors are pretty meaningless anyway. It is based on the maximum continuous rated power of the motor for 30 minutes. So the power for 1 minute or power for 10 seconds could be much higher.
Maybe more useful to compare the torque.

Regulator

  • That's Councillor Regulator to you...
Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #33 on: 01 June, 2021, 11:44:15 am »
I would think it's an (expensive) eco alternative to the motor car as personal transport, not a bike for hobby cyclists. Well, its name hints at something, weather protection. It's a big thing for most people. And you get more crash protection than on any bike.

Quite.  It's like a Smart car: Something I've always seen as a car for people who don't have a decent coat and a bicycle, and largely pointless for the sort of things I usually want to use a car for.

But a lot of people don't have a decent coat and a bicycle, and just want their little personal bubble to drive around in without getting cold or wet.  Hence the popularity of silly little cars with no luggage space.

Where this falls down is the cost (maybe if you could lease it for £100/month or something?), the weirdness (probably an insurmountable barrier, but the crash protection is obviously an attempt to normalise it for the motorist's point of view), and the complete inability to put any children or much in the way of shopping in it.

I managed to get a Trice Q into a Smart Roadster...
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I completely agree with Reg.

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Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #34 on: 01 June, 2021, 07:03:19 pm »
I reckon 50-75% of the cars on my street would be better off as smart cars.  They could park without resorting to double yellows or parking actually on the corner and most users commute, alone, to work.  I don't know how many of my neighbours live within commuting distance to work, but many people I know spend an hour on the motorway on their commute which would be less convenient on a bike.
Most people with proper cars only use the additional proper car benefits rarely (unless they have kids).
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #35 on: 17 July, 2021, 08:24:11 pm »
The Drycycle has competition! However, the PodRide is not yet available in a electrically assisted version nor is the price known.
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/02/01/5-years-later-the-podride-quadracycle-might-finally-be-ready-to-order-in-2021/
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #36 on: 28 July, 2021, 02:29:24 pm »
The Drycycle has competition! However, the PodRide is not yet available in a electrically assisted version nor is the price known.
https://cleantechnica.com/2021/02/01/5-years-later-the-podride-quadracycle-might-finally-be-ready-to-order-in-2021/

Has no-one told them that they are about 90 years too late?  :facepalm: Bring back the Vélocar!!!  https://www.lepetitbraquet.fr/chron19_mochet.html  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:  I wonder what he would have done in a world with decent electric motors.

Kim

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Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #37 on: 28 July, 2021, 03:10:25 pm »
The brushed DC motors they had were perfectly sufficient, if somewhat higher maintenance than an induction motor.  It's the batteries that were rubbish, and the lack of semiconductor switching was an inconvenience and loss of efficiency they didn't know they had.

If battery tech had got there a hundred years earlier, it seems entirely probable that the development of cars would have continued to be electric, with combustion engines being mostly a stationary and boats/locomotives thing.

(If the transistor had got there earlier, perhaps we'd have seen more hybrid drivetrains instead of all the clutches and gearboxes?)

FifeingEejit

  • Not Small
Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #38 on: 28 July, 2021, 11:09:39 pm »
I'd hate to corner that thing a speed (say, drop down off telegraph hill in london) and corner. Which would happen first, rolling or wheels collapsing from side forces?

The front wheels appear to be connected to independently sprung wishbones, with coil-overs on them.
Can't see the if the rear axle is pivoted and sprung or fixed to the chassis.

Anyway, it looks like it's got technically more advanced suspension than a British car from the 1970s.

Looking at it, I can see a market for people getting around a Theme park, like That London or wherever.
Basically replace "city" cars where you don't need to do more than 15kmh with electrical assist or a bit quicker if you're fit...

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #39 on: 29 July, 2021, 08:57:16 am »
The e-cut out is 15mph not km/h!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

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Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #40 on: 02 September, 2021, 11:21:34 pm »
Coming at the same use-case from the car end of the engineering spectrum:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/7p5Uym-YdAc&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/7p5Uym-YdAc&rel=1</a>
https://youtu.be/7p5Uym-YdAc

Equally pointless, but seems much better at it.

quixoticgeek

  • Mostly Harmless
Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #41 on: 02 September, 2021, 11:33:13 pm »

What I find interesting here is it's listing for sub €10000. Vs the £14999 or what ever it was for the drycycle.

Of course you need a license to drive it, and insurance, and parking shit and all that gubbins. Also it's just a variation on small car. At least with the drycycle you get some exercise benefit from it...

A friend showed me her Quattro velomobile recently.

https://en.velomobiel.nl/quattrovelo/

It's the same price as the Carver. But requires no license to ride it, and works on fietspaden. She was riding it with one kid in the back and another on her lap. It solves all the problems the drycycle is trying to solve, but it's quicker, lighter, and cheaper. Only main disadvantage is it's a bitch to lock up.

J
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Beer, bikes, and backpacking
http://b.42q.eu/

Kim

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Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #42 on: 02 September, 2021, 11:56:15 pm »
I agree that the Quattrovelo (probably with electric assist, because it's quite heavy) is a better option, but I would say that; I'm a cyclist.  Put the average city-dweller in a velomobile and they'll [fumble around to climb out and then] run away screaming.

The Carver seems to be 'car' enough that you can just leave it outside for storage (well-prepared thieves with flatbeds[1] notwithstanding).  I wouldn't want to do that with a velomobile (including the Drycycle) - sure, the practical ones tend to have a locking point, but they're delicate things that don't fare well when exposed to oiks.  The fundamental nature of the sort of journey these things are good at means you probably don't have a garage to store it in.

(I note Fully Charged are being bicycle-blind again.  "Can't think of a better way to two people across town"!)


[1] As famously happened to Dr Biggles's n-1th motorbike within 30 minutes of getting it home.  In suburban Cheshire.

Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #43 on: 03 September, 2021, 12:46:18 am »
Looks like that Carver is more like a motorbike, just with an extra wheel, roof and steering wheel.
Seems it is L2e class, ie equivalent to a 50cc moped. So you could ride it with a provisional licence and CBT.
But are you required to wear a helmet, not sure?

And still a lot more expensive than an equivalent 2-wheel electric moped. Depends on how bothered you are about a roof and storage space.

Kim

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Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #44 on: 03 September, 2021, 12:47:45 am »
I don't think helmets are required for multi-track motorcycles.

Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #45 on: 03 September, 2021, 09:19:31 am »
As lissotriton said, looks like a trike with a roof.  I'm not convinced by it as I can't see you being able to weave through traffic jams on it. but it will be small enough to get "bullied" about by other cars.  It will need a full car parking space to park on as well (outside your home).  So most of the disadvantages of a car without some of the benefits (space for groceries for a family of five etc).
I think the drycycle is probably a better concept as it's a bike you can stay out of the rain in.  Obviously it's no velomobile.
simplicity, truth, equality, peace

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #46 on: 03 September, 2021, 11:54:14 am »
Couldn't be arsed to watch more than 10s of the Carver video, sorry, but with that huge caveat: it reminds me of the BMW with a roof. I think it was BMW C2? That had two wheels rather than three, but it had a roof and a roll cage and a seatbelt – UK law still required a helmet, many countries did not – despite all those it was still perceived as a motorbike rather than a nimble car.

The other thing the Carver reminds me of is a fancy mobility scooter I saw last week. That had four wheels, I think, so probably didn't lean, but was slimmer.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

StuAff

  • Folding not boring
Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #47 on: 04 September, 2021, 01:59:11 pm »
Couldn't be arsed to watch more than 10s of the Carver video, sorry, but with that huge caveat: it reminds me of the BMW with a roof. I think it was BMW C2? That had two wheels rather than three, but it had a roof and a roll cage and a seatbelt – UK law still required a helmet, many countries did not – despite all those it was still perceived as a motorbike rather than a nimble car.

The other thing the Carver reminds me of is a fancy mobility scooter I saw last week. That had four wheels, I think, so probably didn't lean, but was slimmer.
BMW C1…quite deliberately designed as a bike for car drivers. It flopped, not surprisingly. Even the more-powerful 200 version (18 bhp!!! 185kg!!!) will easily be outperformed by a regular 125 scoot. 44Teeth on YT started one of the 'Budget Bike Battle' series with one (pitted against a Piaggio with a sidecar). On account of everything, they're only just getting round to actually finishing it.…owners do seem to love them.

Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #48 on: 05 September, 2021, 12:48:32 pm »
Love the Twizy but the price has gone up markedly and it could do with a little more range. Quoted ranges tend to be over optimistic, particularly for winter drives. Hoping the Seat Minimo will give it some competition. Drycyle? Not for £15K. Carver? How does it behave under heavy braking? QV? Low and fragile. Maybe put an electric motor in a Leitra or Rotovelo.

Re: A solution looking for a problem...
« Reply #49 on: 05 September, 2021, 01:47:51 pm »