Upgrade from Claris 8sp to?

[BrianI]

At the moment my current Audax Bike, is a cheap and cheerful 2014 Pinnacle Dolomite two, which I bought for £450 at the end of season sale in Evans a few years ago.

Specs from the Evans website.

Frame    Pinnacle 6061-T6 double butted aluminium alloy
Fork    Full carbon, tapered steerer, fender eyelets
Front Derailleur    Shimano Claris FD-2400
Rear Derailleur    Shimano Claris RD-2400
Number of Gears    16
Shifters    Shimano Claris ST-2400
Chain set    Shimano Claris FC-2350 Octalink
Chain rings    50/34T
Bottom Bracket    Shimano BB-ES25 Octalink
Cassette    Shimano Claris CS-HG50-8 12-28T
Brakeset    Tektro R317 57mm deep-drop
Brake Levers    Shimano Claris ST-2400

At the moment I've replaced the rear cassette with an 11-32, for a bit of a lower gear for hills. However such a cassette is a bit gappy.

Question is, is it worthwhile upgrading to a better 9 or 10 speed groupset? The Claris brifters are a little sticky at times when changing... I'm unconviced about 11/12/13 speed groupsets. I'd rather have something more on the rugged side.  My touring bike has a 9 speed triple set up.

Or have standards changed from 2014 such as nothing would be compatible? Or is it even worthwhile spending more on a new groupset than the bike is actually worth?

[Brucey]

from what you say about sticky shifting the Claris shifters (and/or the cables) need a drop of lube. If so, you don't need an 'upgrade' here, you need some maintenance. Likewise the claris RD will usually just wear out a bit quicker than a posher one; when it wears  out you can choose to replace it like with like or upgrade it.


With 'upgrades' you might get

- lighter parts
- swankier looking parts
- more gear ratios
- more durable parts

or none of the above....

FWIW the shifters are the most expensive single part of the bike so changing these usually renders the whole thing uneconomic, not least because you will be buying a load of other stuff at the same time. Even so it can still make sense if your plan is to custom-build a bike (maybe around another frameset) in the long term, and you really can't buy anything close to it.

if you are finding the gaps in the gears a bit annoying, a different (custom) cassette might sort it, and this will almost certainly be much cheaper than most other solutions.

you can fit

- 8/9/10s cassettes to an 8s freehub body
- any shimano 9s RD or any 'road' 10s RD (except RD-4700) will work as 8s with your shifters
-  9s (and possibly a 10s) chain will probably work OK with your chainrings
- a 9s chain will work OK with your FD
- you should be able to go down to a (non shimano) 33T chainring with your chainset

But if you are planning to change the whole groupset it might work out cheaper/better/less hassle to get a different bike. 

FWIW in your position I'd probably maintain the cables/shifters, replace the RD with a better one (if it is worn) and fit a different cassette if needs be.  I'd only bother spending a lot on upgrading the parts if the frame was something special/irreplaceable.

cheers

[quixoticgeek]

Because Shimano is designed to be incompatible with itself, you're basically limited to sticking to claris, or upgrading the whole system. Which would mean either going to Sora for 9 speed, Tiagra for 10 speed, or 105 for 11 speed. Once you're at the 11 speed point, 105 is compatible with ultegra and dura ace, so you can then upgrade piece by piece. A full 105 groupset is showing up as €489, vs €395 or Tiagra 4700. I can't seem to find anyone selling the Sora groupset tho. But I'd guess it's probably around the €300 mark if you can find it.

I've run Tiagra 4700 for the last 15000km, and it's been fantastic, I'm about to upgrade it, but I'm doing so because I want to go for electronic shifting, rather than because it isn't good enough.

IMHO, the difference in quality when you go from Claris to Tiagra is really noticeable, and IMHO, worth it. If your frame is in good condition, then upgrading the groupset like this, would give you the feel of a whole new bike. Change the wheels to something lighter at the same time, and you would be forgiven for thinking it really is a whole new bike.

Personally I'd upgrade to Tiagra at a minimum, and if I felt really like spoiling myself, I'd go to 105.

J

[mcshroom]

Where do you feel the cassette is a bit gappy? I found SRAM 11-32 cassettes a little more convenient for a while, as they put more gears in the smaller sprockets and then bigger jumps at the end to match up.

SRAM PC850 - 11-12-14-16-18-21-26-32
Shimano HG50 - 11-13-15-18-21-24-28-32

If you fancy more gears, then anything up to 10sp road will work with your current mechs, except for Tiagra 4700.

Also, I found dropping the front chainring to a 48t meant that the gears all seemed to fall in a more useful range for me. In fact, I have a 46-34 chainset on my new Genesis and that seems to work well too.

[Brucey]

Because Shimano is designed to be incompatible with itself, you're basically limited to sticking to claris, or upgrading the whole system.

not so.

[mcshroom]

Because Shimano is designed to be incompatible with itself, you're basically limited to sticking to claris, or upgrading the whole system. Which would mean either going to Sora for 9 speed, Tiagra for 10 speed, or 105 for 11 speed. Once you're at the 11 speed point, 105 is compatible with ultegra and dura ace, so you can then upgrade piece by piece. A full 105 groupset is showing up as €489, vs €395 or Tiagra 4700. I can't seem to find anyone selling the Sora groupset tho. But I'd guess it's probably around the €300 mark if you can find it.

I've run Tiagra 4700 for the last 15000km, and it's been fantastic, I'm about to upgrade it, but I'm doing so because I want to go for electronic shifting, rather than because it isn't good enough.

IMHO, the difference in quality when you go from Claris to Tiagra is really noticeable, and IMHO, worth it. If your frame is in good condition, then upgrading the groupset like this, would give you the feel of a whole new bike. Change the wheels to something lighter at the same time, and you would be forgiven for thinking it really is a whole new bike.

Personally I'd upgrade to Tiagra at a minimum, and if I felt really like spoiling myself, I'd go to 105.

J

Up to 10sp road (exc. 4700), and 9sp MTB, the Derailleurs are pretty interchangeable. I've run all sorts of mixtures of Alivio, Sora, 2300, Claris, 105 and Tiagra on my bikes and as long as the chain, cassette and shifters are all matched up the rest works together. The only problem I sometimes have is that a 9sp front triple shifter is a little narrow for an 8sp triple chainset, so you get a little rub on the cage in the extremes.

[grams]

Your brakes and chainset will work equally well with any of the newer groupsets (up to 11 speed). So you're looking at new chain, cassette, shifters and derailleurs. You might be able to keep the FD, although that's a very low cost item.

One potential issue is your rear wheel - it should happily take a 10 speed cassette, but there's a fair chance it won't have the wider freehub needed for 11 speed road cassettes.

If I were you and spending money I'd go all the way to 11 speed (wheel permitting) to get the most benefit from an upgrade. All of the recent Shimano groupsets are very similar in construction, so you're not winning any reliability or robustness advantages by going lower. The cost differences for consumables (chains etc) are only a couple of quid these days if you buy online.

[Karla]

Up to 10sp road (exc. 4700), and 9sp MTB, the Derailleurs are pretty interchangeable. I've run all sorts of mixtures of Alivio, Sora, 2300, Claris, 105 and Tiagra on my bikes and as long as the chain, cassette and shifters are all matched up the rest works together. The only problem I sometimes have is that a 9sp front triple shifter is a little narrow for an 8sp triple chainset, so you get a little rub on the cage in the extremes.

My current bike has Altus, XT, Dura Ace, 105 and SRAM installed!

It's an 8 speed setup with a 10 speed rear mech (105), goodness knows what front mech (Altus) and 11 speed chainset (XT).  As Mcshroom says, the SRAM 8 speed 11-32 cassettes are better (though IME a bit less durable) as they don't have the huge 11-13 jump.

[BrianI]

Thanks for the replies! Certainly lots to think about.

Whether it's worth spending £400 on a new groupset etc is something I'll need to think about, as I've often thought the bike was a size too large (a Large size Pinnacle, rather than an Extra Large may have been a better fit. Such is buying end of season bargains online...).

I probably upgrade wheels, as I run a dynamo hub on the front, hand build on to Ambrosio Evolution rim. Rear wheel is a sora hub, hand built onto an  Ambrosio evolution rim.  32 spokes.

Perhaps I'm best to keep the £400 or so to put towards a new bike next year...