Author Topic: an apology  (Read 20557 times)

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: an apology
« Reply #200 on: 03 July, 2013, 09:26:21 pm »
I have just finished Inferno.  It does not improve towards the end.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

Mrs Pingu

  • Who ate all the pies? Me
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Re: an apology
« Reply #201 on: 03 July, 2013, 09:54:06 pm »
Just say 'no' to foot high frosting, kids.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: an apology
« Reply #202 on: 03 July, 2013, 10:07:57 pm »
I like Captain Corelli's Mandolin.
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


LindaG

Re: an apology
« Reply #203 on: 03 July, 2013, 10:10:20 pm »
I like Captain Corelli's Mandolin.

So do I.  The Troublesome Offspring of Cardinal Guzman is good too.

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: an apology
« Reply #204 on: 03 July, 2013, 10:16:54 pm »
And the other ones - The War of Don Emmanuel's Nether Parts and Senor Vivo and the Coca Lord.
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


LindaG

Re: an apology
« Reply #205 on: 03 July, 2013, 10:18:25 pm »
And the other ones - The War of Don Emmanuel's Nether Parts and Senor Vivo and the Coca Lord.

I haven't read those. Are they funny?

Pingu

  • Put away those fiery biscuits!
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Re: an apology
« Reply #206 on: 03 July, 2013, 10:21:48 pm »
And the other ones - The War of Don Emmanuel's Nether Parts and Senor Vivo and the Coca Lord.

I haven't read those. Are they funny?

Yes & no  :thumbsup:

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: an apology
« Reply #207 on: 03 July, 2013, 10:32:41 pm »
And the other ones - The War of Don Emmanuel's Nether Parts and Senor Vivo and the Coca Lord.

I haven't read those. Are they funny?

Yes & no  :thumbsup:
In the same way as Cardinal Guzman is and isn't funny. Bits of Senor Vivo are very horrible and sad though. But the same characters pop up in all the books, so if you like the people in Cardinal Guzman, the other two books will tell you how they got there.
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: an apology
« Reply #208 on: 03 July, 2013, 10:56:53 pm »
Ah, Captain Corelli... I read it a long, long time ago...

Its status as a Famously Bad Book seems slightly odd to me. The main reasons for its reputation are, as far as I can see:
a) it was too damn popular (there was a time when if you'd tried to count the number of copies you saw being read on the Tube, you'd run out of fingers before you got from Covent Garden to Leicester Square); b) it was made into a truly appalling film starring Nicolas fucking Cage; and c) its mildly nauseating mix of irritating whimsy and mawkish sentimentality.

Of these, only the last seems to me a justifiable reason for taking against it, though I seem to remember liking it enough at the time to actually recommend it to other people. If I read it again now, I might feel differently about it. I might not.

I certainly don't remember the writing being Dan Brown/EL James levels of awful. In fact, I recall it being very readable for the most part.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: an apology
« Reply #209 on: 04 July, 2013, 08:07:58 am »
The other thing about Captain Corelli is the ending, which is the most irritating, heartbreaking, futile ending in the history of the world.
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: an apology
« Reply #210 on: 04 July, 2013, 08:47:51 am »
I don't remember the ending. Probably for the best.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

ian

Re: an apology
« Reply #211 on: 04 July, 2013, 08:58:50 am »
c) its mildly nauseating mix of irritating whimsy and mawkish sentimentality.


This is what I recall. Particularly whimsy. It starts with those titles and by a page 50 that overbearing, enforced quaintness has you locked in the cellar with a sticky cake knife at your throat and forced to wear a suit made entirely out of sticky doilies. And there's sugar in my tea.

I didn't actually know it was a famously bad book. Anyway, if anyone is in Shepherd's Bush, there's a copy behind the hedge of the house at the end of Frith St. I doubt even the mildew has managed to finish it.

The EL James phenomenon had passed me by, other than the disconcerting experience of once sitting next to an oldster on a plane, and glancing over at his Kindle and seeing a passage rendered there in the largest font size supported, which meant my nosiness was rewarded with the following few, almost billboard scale, words: her hand tightened around his erection. Now, I'll be honest, my idea of fun isn't spending several hours sharing a confined space with a potentially aroused geriatric. Still, my attention was snared. It didn't get any better. A lady apparently detonated a few pages further on. Presumably to escape. It was only afterwards, when describing it to a friend, she pointed out that it was that book.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: an apology
« Reply #212 on: 04 July, 2013, 09:12:31 am »
c.

I admit: I didn't finish it.  It may have been redeemed by some brilliant writing and exposition in the last 50 pages or whatever.  But I didn't feel it was worth taking what was, quite frankly, a very slim chance.
Getting there...

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: an apology
« Reply #213 on: 05 July, 2013, 06:29:27 am »
T be fair to her, EL James isn't trying to produce literature, whereas Louis de Bearnaise Sauce is.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: an apology
« Reply #214 on: 05 July, 2013, 08:19:35 am »
T be fair to her, EL James isn't trying to produce literature, whereas Louis de Bearnaise Sauce is.

Spurious distinction. If you bring the writer's motivation into an evaluation of the quality of their output, you'll very quickly find yourself tied in structuralist knots.

Besides, it's that line of reasoning that leaves you open to accusations of snobbery from the likes of Ben T.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

Re: an apology
« Reply #215 on: 17 July, 2013, 10:55:04 am »
Ah, so that's who E L James is. I'd managed to avoid knowing until now.
"A woman on a bicycle has all the world before her where to choose; she can go where she will, no man hindering." The Type-Writer Girl, 1897

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: an apology
« Reply #216 on: 21 August, 2013, 06:01:38 pm »
For those who find the book too taxing, the film is on Ch5 tonight.
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


clarion

  • Tyke
Re: an apology
« Reply #217 on: 21 August, 2013, 06:06:58 pm »
Ah, so that's who E L James is. I'd managed to avoid knowing until now.

Nee Wisty
Getting there...

spindrift

Re: an apology
« Reply #218 on: 22 August, 2013, 01:06:42 pm »
The other thing about Captain Corelli is the ending, which is the most irritating, heartbreaking, futile ending in the history of the world.

The main problem is, we're supposed to believe John Hurt sired Penelope Cruz! I'm in Kefalonia now, it was a dark day for the Italians, imagine, you're an occupying army and your government declares an amnesty. The Italians stationed here were on a sticky wicket, they argued amongst themselves and decided to stay, the Germans rolled into town and killed 5000 Italians.

HTFB

  • The Monkey and the Plywood Violin
Re: an apology
« Reply #219 on: 03 September, 2013, 01:36:58 pm »
Not something I know anything about, but do I infer correctly that "on a sticky wicket" is a charming period euphemism for "abandoned and then murdered"?
Not especially helpful or mature

Re: an apology
« Reply #220 on: 03 September, 2013, 01:42:28 pm »
Not something I know anything about, but do I infer correctly that "on a sticky wicket" is a charming period euphemism for "abandoned and then murdered"?

Among other variations on being hip-deep in the brown smelly stuff... ;)
"He who fights monsters should see to it that he himself does not become a monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also into you." ~ Freidrich Neitzsche

HTFB

  • The Monkey and the Plywood Violin
Re: an apology
« Reply #221 on: 03 September, 2013, 02:06:06 pm »
Is "being hip-deep in the brown smelly stuff" a charming period euphemism for "having a couple of weeks to await death with all your friends, before all being murdered"?

To the extent that this thread is about clarity of writing I'm not sure that your version is better than the previous one.

[Does anybody have a ladder? I can't reach the ground from these stirrups.]
Not especially helpful or mature

spindrift

Re: an apology
« Reply #222 on: 03 September, 2013, 02:14:29 pm »
By "sticky wicket" I meant their choice when they heard of the amnesty. They had three. They chose poorly but they had no idea what was coming. Those that escaped being shot were loaded onto boats, which the Germans then sank. It was a war crime (only Katyn was worse in sheer numbers) but the senior German got off scot free because he lied about what orders he'd received.   

citoyen

  • Occasionally rides a bike
Re: an apology
« Reply #223 on: 03 September, 2013, 05:03:52 pm »
Is "being hip-deep in the brown smelly stuff" a charming period euphemism for "having a couple of weeks to await death with all your friends, before all being murdered"?

To the extent that this thread is about clarity of writing I'm not sure that your version is better than the previous one.

Describing that situation as "being on a sticky wicket" sounds like the sort of thing PG Wodehouse might write. And it's a familiar idiomatic phrase, so I don't think there's any problem in respect of clarity of meaning. Rhetorically speaking, it's a good example of litotes. The only difficulty with it is that it's a kind of in-joke that assumes the reader knows the pertinent facts already. But this is often the case with Wodehouse (loads of gags that work on the assumption that the reader, like the author, received an Edwardian British public school education) and it rarely, if ever, spoils my enjoyment of his work.

"Being hip-deep in the brown smelly stuff" may not be a set phrase, but I think its meaning is equally clear.
"The future's all yours, you lousy bicycles."

HTFB

  • The Monkey and the Plywood Violin
Re: an apology
« Reply #224 on: 12 September, 2013, 10:44:09 am »
Easy to find copies - the charity shops are stuffed with Dan Brown.
They're not, you know... [long rant]
The same phenomenon now occurs with 50 Shades: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/books/10289912/Charity-shops-stuck-with-thousands-of-copies-of-50-Shades-of-Grey.html

"We have thousands of copies of all the Fifty Shades books but we've stopped selling them because no one was buying them."
Not especially helpful or mature