Moulton Experiences?

[nobby]

BTW if you don't want rim brakes it is possible to use SA drum brakes front and rear, provided a little engineering is done; they are really very good brakes on wheels of this size.

cheers

I like drum brakes. My first Trice had them in the 20" wheels.
If I use a Shimano Alfine IGH I could have a disc at the rear and a hub brake at the front. Is the little bit of engineering about the torque arm fitting?

[Brucey]

Is the little bit of engineering about the torque arm fitting?

yes;  you can either  react the torque loads into the usual (for a caliper brake) place using a longer arm than normal  or into the 'fixed' part of the fork using a modification to the hub and a linkage (eg using rose joints) to the fixed part of the fork. The latter is a better scheme since it (unlike a caliper brake) imposes no side loads on the suspension when the brake is used.

The modification to the hub ought to include a conversion to a semi-floating brake plate. If this is done then the linkage to the fixed part of the fork need not be a perfect parallelogram, and the brake can be given an adjustable anti-dive characteristic.

If the brake plate is left fixed, a linkage to the fixed part of the fork can only have a perfect parallelogram else the hub will work loose in the dropouts.

cheers

[LittleWheelsandBig]

An Aussie mate of mine has a Moulton (stored with his UK daughter) that he was toying with selling, as of a week ago.
“As there seems little prospect of getting to England again for at least 18 months I'm toying with the notion of selling the yellow TSR in Sarah's shed. It's circa 2006 with Deda tubing, V-brakes and a double chain ring making it a TR16. I'm almost certain it was a TSR9 (hub gears) that has evolved into what it is today.
It's non-separable, which I think makes it more responsive regardless of anything the experts say.

As I say, it's only a thought bubble but Sarah hasn't ridden it for some time as she has 3 other bikes and hasn't gone touring with panniers for a couple of years now. I need to clarify with her if it's more of an imposition on her to sell it or have it continue taking up space.”

[nobby]

Is the little bit of engineering about the torque arm fitting?

yes;  you can either  react the torque loads into the usual (for a caliper brake) place using a longer arm than normal  or into the 'fixed' part of the fork using a modification to the hub and a linkage (eg using rose joints) to the fixed part of the fork. The latter is a better scheme since it (unlike a caliper brake) imposes no side loads on the suspension when the brake is used.

The modification to the hub ought to include a conversion to a semi-floating brake plate. If this is done then the linkage to the fixed part of the fork need not be a perfect parallelogram, and the brake can be given an adjustable anti-dive characteristic.

If the brake plate is left fixed, a linkage to the fixed part of the fork can only have a perfect parallelogram else the hub will work loose in the dropouts.

cheers

Thank you Brucey but that is not a little bit of engineering for a rude mechanic like me.
Though I recognise many of the words I've never seen them in the same sentences before
If I should reach that stage I'll ask again and perhaps get my recumbenting son in law involved. He is a principal chassis design engineer at Pro Drive and will no doubt understand. 

[nobby]

An Aussie mate of mine has a Moulton (stored with his UK daughter) that he was toying with selling, as of a week ago.
“As there seems little prospect of getting to England again for at least 18 months I'm toying with the notion of selling the yellow TSR in Sarah's shed. It's circa 2006 with Deda tubing, V-brakes and a double chain ring making it a TR16. I'm almost certain it was a TSR9 (hub gears) that has evolved into what it is today.
It's non-separable, which I think makes it more responsive regardless of anything the experts say.

As I say, it's only a thought bubble but Sarah hasn't ridden it for some time as she has 3 other bikes and hasn't gone touring with panniers for a couple of years now. I need to clarify with her if it's more of an imposition on her to sell it or have it continue taking up space.”

Thanks for for thinking of me and telling me about that bike but the frame will need to be separable for the boot of the wife's car and trains when necessary.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

No problems. I hope you can easily find the bike you want.

[Gattopardo]

What is my moulton again?

[igauk]

BTW if you don't want rim brakes it is possible to use SA drum brakes front and rear, provided a little engineering is done; they are really very good brakes on wheels of this size.

cheers

I like drum brakes. My first Trice had them in the 20" wheels.
If I use a Shimano Alfine IGH I could have a disc at the rear and a hub brake at the front. Is the little bit of engineering about the torque arm fitting?

I've just noticed SA do a dyno hub with drum brake, pity it's 1.3kg

[Brucey]

I've just noticed SA do a dyno hub with drum brake, pity it's 1.3kg

yes, it is not a lightweight thing by any means. I think it is a good unit for a large-wheeled utility bike/commuter, especially if you plan to leave the lights on permanently.  The reason I say that is because the generator part is a bit draggy; about as draggy with the lights off as on, if test data is to be believed. It wouldn't be my first choice for a small-wheeler, primarily because of the drag rather than the weight.

cheers

[nobby]

No problems. I hope you can easily find the bike you want.

Thank you.

[nobby]

On Moulton luggage, which we wasn't, but do folk use a saddlebag with a Moulton or is it only the expensive tailored rear rack units?
I've been looking at pics of Moulton and can't recall seeing a saddlebag.
I'm thinking my two small panniers up front and the Carradice camper long flap on the saddle would give me plenty of space.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

HK uses a saddlebag on her Moulton, I prefer Moulton bags. The small wheels mean that short folk can use much larger saddlebags.

[nobby]

HK uses a saddlebag on her Moulton, I prefer Moulton bags. The small wheels mean that short folk can use much larger saddlebags.

That's good. I'm short, and getting shorter as age wears me down!

[HeltorChasca]

As an ambitious young, handsome and future Moultoneer, I like the idea of using my Carradice too.

Incidentally: I have trawled cyberspace for second hand Moultons and there isn’t much out there. One machine went for at least 75% of the new offering. Their value seems to hold well so new may be best. But given the advancing ages of the core Moulton market (see annual Moulton meet up videos on YouTube) surely there would be loads hanging up in sheds all over the country. Anyone know of a good marketplace for these bikes?


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[HeltorChasca]

Can I also ask where/if people put a second water bottle?


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[LittleWheelsandBig]

https://flic.kr/p/2jaFoYg should show HK’s Jubilee prototype with bidons each side of the headtube.

Moulton do a couple of bidon fittings in SS for the front rack mounts after I asked for a way to fit bidons in that location for our PBP11 Moultons. I had to roughly modify them to fit on my TSR. You can make useable facsimiles from steel strap with twists at each end.

You can fit a bidon on the front pannier rack, of course. Like the bidon mount under the bottom strut, it is quite difficult to use while riding along.

I need to use an aero bidon on the seat tube as a normal bidon hits my legs.

SQR saddlebag mounts (e.g. SQR Tour) work pretty well on Moultons too, with the optional fittings for larger diameter seatposts.

[orienteer]

As an ambitious young, handsome and future Moultoneer, I like the idea of using my Carradice too.

Incidentally: I have trawled cyberspace for second hand Moultons and there isn’t much out there. One machine went for at least 75% of the new offering. Their value seems to hold well so new may be best. But given the advancing ages of the core Moulton market (see annual Moulton meet up videos on YouTube) surely there would be loads hanging up in sheds all over the country. Anyone know of a good marketplace for these bikes?


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Best place is the Moulton Bicycle Club website:
http://www.moultonbuzz.com/

You'll need to join the club to access the ads as they appear, otherwise you won't see them until a month later.

[igauk]

As an ambitious young, handsome and future Moultoneer, I like the idea of using my Carradice too.

Incidentally: I have trawled cyberspace for second hand Moultons and there isn’t much out there. One machine went for at least 75% of the new offering. Their value seems to hold well so new may be best. But given the advancing ages of the core Moulton market (see annual Moulton meet up videos on YouTube) surely there would be loads hanging up in sheds all over the country. Anyone know of a good marketplace for these bikes?


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Prices are pretty stiff, even amongst owners, not helped by the international market for them. Certainly the higher end ones that come to market are often from 'collectors' who've had it hanging on the wall of their SoHo/Frankfurt/Tokyo loft. The moultonbuzz web site can be pretty dead, but the classified section does still have occassional new posts (there's a TSR 27 and AM 7 on there at a good prices just now) . Try here as well: https://groups.io/g/moultonbicycle a wanted post might be fruitful. Some dealers like Velorution offer 0% finance, which almost tempted me before I found a second hand one (which I only managed to blag cos I sorted out the shipping from Shetland!).

[igauk]

Can I also ask where/if people put a second water bottle?


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TSRs and SSTs have a second bottle mount on the 'down tube'. I use an Apidura saddle bag on mine without problems. Tempted by the day rack and bag but as with all things Moulton specific a bit spendy.

[nobby]

Some dealers like Velorution offer 0% finance, which almost tempted me before I found a second hand one (which I only managed to blag cos I sorted out the shipping from Shetland!).

Thanks for pointing out that Velorution offer 0% finance. I will take a nice cup of tea to herself in bed in a bit and point out that a TSR 8 monthly cost is only half of my ebay monthly spend for 12 months. Quiet, or quite, insincere promises given about cutting back on eBay while she is befuddled by sleep may mean an order.

I quite fancy the TSR 8. All my bikes in current use have either an Alfine 8 or 11. I prefer the spread of the 11 but the 8 is sufficient with an eleccy motor, and I have a spare Bafang mid drive desperately crying out for a bike.

[HeltorChasca]

I genuinely appreciate all the wisdom upthread. Thanks all. If anything I’m keenest on the SST 22. Seems like a sensible point to start at for audax purposes. 105s and I are old chums too. Sure the other upgrades are worth it, but financially other worldly to me at the moment.

Nobby, I like your stealth approach on your wife. Devious N+1 tactics.


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[nobby]

I genuinely appreciate all the wisdom upthread. Thanks all. If anything I’m keenest on the SST 22. Seems like a sensible point to start at for audax purposes. 105s and I are old chums too. Sure the other upgrades are worth it, but financially other worldly to me at the moment.

Nobby, I like your stealth approach on your wife. Devious N+1 tactics.


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My thanks to all upthread as well, and there's a couple of things I'd like to develop further; Brucey's front hub brake for one.

The pot is stewing at the moment - filled with my Twinings English Breakfast no less, better than the Waitrose brew she normally gets - and I have a back up whine that the bike only costs twice as much as the gold I've bought her for our 50th next month. That will be the heavy artillery for use only if I am losing the argument   

[nobby]

Well, that went well 

Waiting for a reply from Velorution.

Bike shops seem to have become incapable of using the phone "due to high demand because of Covid 19".

[igauk]

Interesting tactics Nobby, a cup of tea and the cost of a gift she hasn't received yet. I bought my wife a holiday in Rome for her 50th, now cancelled because of Covid, BA refunding me...musn't do anything stupid, musn't do anything stupid...wonder how much building a lightweight, single speed, F frame would be? A fairing and disc wheel covers would do wonders for the TSR's aerodynamics, maybe that disc brake conversion...MUST STOP.

[igauk]

I genuinely appreciate all the wisdom upthread. Thanks all. If anything I’m keenest on the SST 22. Seems like a sensible point to start at for audax purposes. 105s and I are old chums too. Sure the other upgrades are worth it, but financially other worldly to me at the moment.

Nobby, I like your stealth approach on your wife. Devious N+1 tactics.


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I think the SST 105 is the sweetspot, not that I've even riden a new series, let alone ownded one. I worked out if you wanted the Potenza SST it's still cheaper to buy an SST 105 and a Potenza groupset, and that's before you've flogged the 105 gear! And you get to use the much more affordable Shimano cassettes that will still shift fine as 11 speed spacing is the same! Apparently the price differential is because the Potenza version has a 'special' Moulton made from unobtanium cassette...bonkers.