Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => Audax => Topic started by: quixoticgeek on 13 October, 2018, 11:53:06 pm

Title: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: quixoticgeek on 13 October, 2018, 11:53:06 pm
AUK site says:

Quote
Brevet 5000.

The AUK Brevet 5000 requires a randonnée of 1200 km or more, a Super Randonneur series, 1000 km, 24 hour team Arrow, plus other events to a total of 5000 km, all BR or BRM, all ridden within a 4 year period.

Does that mean 5000km on top of all the others, or 5000km in total?

200+300+400+600+1000+1200+360 = 4060km, meaning you'd only need to do 5 200's to qualify. Or is it another 25 200's worth for a total of 9060km ?

J

Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 14 October, 2018, 12:40:45 am

AUK site says:

Quote
Brevet 5000.

The AUK Brevet 5000 requires a randonnée of 1200 km or more, a Super Randonneur series, 1000 km, 24 hour team Arrow, plus other events to a total of 5000 km, all BR or BRM, all ridden within a 4 year period.

Does that mean 5000km on top of all the others, or 5000km in total?

200+300+400+600+1000+1200+360 = 4060km, meaning you'd only need to do 5 200's to qualify. Or is it another 25 200's worth for a total of 9060km ?

And by extension, is the Brevet 10000 10000km on top of all the other requirements, or is it 10000 in total ?

J
total so 5x 200s on top of the others
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: Smeth on 14 October, 2018, 07:05:51 am
Total 5k, not additional.

Sent from my SM-J510FN using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: Ivo on 14 October, 2018, 08:15:38 am
If all the events are BRM, you can also request an ACP Brevet 5000.
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: Zed43 on 14 October, 2018, 09:18:11 am
I believe the ACP5000 award requires the 1200km to be PBP, for the Brevet5000 any 1200+ (ie LEL) qualifies.
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: oliveriles on 14 October, 2018, 09:47:12 am
Ordering my brevet 5,000 this week 😄😄😄😄 if I’d been a bit more organised last season could have finished off brevet 10,000 - a goal for this season
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: Ian H on 14 October, 2018, 10:32:42 am
I believe the ACP5000 award requires the 1200km to be PBP, for the Brevet5000 any 1200+ (ie LEL) qualifies.

Plus, of course, the other events have to be BRM. 
I have one of those medals tucked away somewhere.
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: frankly frankie on 14 October, 2018, 11:30:03 am
Ordering my brevet 5,000 this week 😄😄😄😄 if I’d been a bit more organised last season could have finished off brevet 10,000 - a goal for this season

AUK don't list a Brevet 10,000 award.
https://www.aukweb.net/results/brevet/ (https://www.aukweb.net/results/brevet/)

To add to the confusion, the ACP 'Brevet 5000' award referenced upthread is actually their 'Randonneur 5000' award.  According to AUK anyway.  :facepalm:
https://www.aukweb.net/results/acpawards/ (https://www.aukweb.net/results/acpawards/)
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 14 October, 2018, 11:33:16 am
ACP call their award the Randonneur 5000 (previously Brevet de Randonneur 5000), which is equivalent to AUK's Brevet 5000.

ACP also have the Randonneur 10000, with no direct AUK equivalent.
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: oliveriles on 14 October, 2018, 11:37:37 am
😄 Yes thanks, should have called it by it’s correct name.  Chris has sent me the correct claim form.
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: quixoticgeek on 14 October, 2018, 08:48:10 pm

Can longer distances substitute shorter ones? I.e. can you do 2x 1200's, rather than the 1200 + 1000 ?

J
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: JonBuoy on 14 October, 2018, 08:55:56 pm
Quote
13.2.5 The Brevet Award Series....
(vii) Brevet 5000: within a four year period, events comprising a Super Randonneur, an event of
1000km or more, an additional event of 1200km or more, a 24 hour team Arrow and other BR,
BRM or RM events to bring the total up to at least 5,000 km.
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: SR Steve on 14 October, 2018, 10:16:47 pm
Quote
13.2.5 The Brevet Award Series....
(vii) Brevet 5000: within a four year period, events comprising a Super Randonneur, an event of
1000km or more, an additional event of 1200km or more, a 24 hour team Arrow and other BR,
BRM or RM events to bring the total up to at least 5,000 km.
That's a bit different to what it says at the top of the Brevet 5000 Hall of Fame...

"The AUK Brevet 5000 requires a randonnée of 1200 km or more, SR, 1000 km, 24 hour team Arrow, plus other events to a total of 5000 km, all BR or BRM, all ridden within a 4 year period.
This list shows Brevets 5000 (AUK). It does not show recipients of ACP's Brevet 5000 award."

Big difference is that the regulations say that a 1000km or more ride is required, rather than specifically a 1000km as in the Hall of Fame, so this needs clarifying. I've just claimed three Brevet 5000s to bring my total to five based on actually needing 1000km rides. I've found 1000s and Arrows most difficult to fit in over the years.

The ACP Randonneur 5000 rules are clearer. BRM 200, 300, 400, 600 and 1000km rides are required (Longer rides cannot be substituted for shorter ones), a PBP, Fleche Velocio or National Arrow recognised by ACP (eg Audax UK Easter Arrow to York) and other BRM or LRM rides to top up to 5000km or over in a four year period.

I finished off an ACP Randonneur 10000 in August by riding the Super Randonnee 600km around the Dolomites. I have just sent in the claim form, but without the brevet number for the Dolomites ride as these won't be released until after claims need to be in. Two full sets of BRM 200, 300, 400, 600, 1000km rides, PBP, Another BRM or LRM 1200+ ride, Fleche Velocio or National Arrow, Super Randonnee 600 and other BRM or LRM rides to top up to 10000km or over are required within a six year period.

When I filled the claim form in I realised that I qualified for three more ACP Randonneur 5000s as well as the one that I had already been awarded. Claim forms for these can be downloaded from the ACP website  http://www.audax-club-parisien.com/EN/383.html  It's a word document that you can type your details into and email to the AUK ACP representative.
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: quixoticgeek on 14 October, 2018, 10:26:01 pm
I've found 1000s and Arrows most difficult to fit in over the years.

For me the main issue with the ACP awards is they require a PBP. I'm unlikely to be able to ride PBP in 2019 if I am to do the races I want to do, which means that I'll have to wait until 2023. But I then have to really hope I am successful both at getting in, and completing it, as if not, any of the rides I've done in the run up to PBP 2023, would be lost and I'd have to do them all again to get the award. Looks like I'll have to try to do a 1200 or 1000 in 2022, to increase the chance of getting in for 2023.

I need to also work out what the options are for arrows other than the French and UK ones.

J
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 14 October, 2018, 11:12:55 pm
There are ACP-recognised flèche/ arrows in the majority of BRM-organising countries and virtually all European countries. Most of them are around Easter but there are some exceptions.

AUK tends to accept longer brevets substituting for shorter, except where specifically noted. ACP doesn't allow substitutions, except where specifically noted.
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: Ivo on 15 October, 2018, 07:22:31 am
I've found 1000s and Arrows most difficult to fit in over the years.

For me the main issue with the ACP awards is they require a PBP. I'm unlikely to be able to ride PBP in 2019 if I am to do the races I want to do, which means that I'll have to wait until 2023. But I then have to really hope I am successful both at getting in, and completing it, as if not, any of the rides I've done in the run up to PBP 2023, would be lost and I'd have to do them all again to get the award. Looks like I'll have to try to do a 1200 or 1000 in 2022, to increase the chance of getting in for 2023.

I need to also work out what the options are for arrows other than the French and UK ones.

J

Dutch and Belgian randonneurs jointly offered arrows in the past three years. Not this year due to the need to cram all long events in a few months for PBP qualifying purposes. I expect that there'll be arrows again from 2020 to 2022.
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: frankly frankie on 15 October, 2018, 09:56:13 am
The ACP Randonneur 5000 rules are clearer. BRM 200, 300, 400, 600 and 1000km rides are required (Longer rides cannot be substituted for shorter ones), a PBP, Fleche Velocio or National Arrow recognised by ACP (eg Audax UK Easter Arrow to York) and other BRM or LRM rides to top up to 5000km or over in a four year period.

Interesting.  I'm pretty sure the original purpose of the 4-year period was to bridge 2x PBPs with all the other required rides (no 1000 required) falling in between.
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: LittleWheelsandBig on 15 October, 2018, 10:33:52 am
That is news to me. I thought that the 1000 was always a specific requirement for ACP's award.
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: iroiromono on 06 October, 2022, 10:26:50 am
Quote
"The B5000 requires a Randonnée of 1200 km or more, a Super Randonneur series, 1000 km, 24 hour team ride, plus other events to a total of 5000 km, all BR or BRM, all ridden within a 4 year period."
Do people interpret this as a SR Series in a single season, or simply a collection of 200,300,400 and 600 over the 4 year period? I'd rather use a "spare" 600 from last season and "save" the Oveerseas 1200 I did this summer for B5000 #3

For the ACP awards they don't require the rides to be within the same season, but unsure for AUK.
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: Ian H on 06 October, 2022, 10:35:31 am
Quote
"The B5000 requires a Randonnée of 1200 km or more, a Super Randonneur series, 1000 km, 24 hour team ride, plus other events to a total of 5000 km, all BR or BRM, all ridden within a 4 year period."
Do people interpret this as a SR Series in a single season, or simply a collection of 200,300,400 and 600 over the 4 year period? I'd rather use a "spare" 600 from last season and "save" the Oveerseas 1200 I did this summer for B5000 #3

For the ACP awards they don't require the rides to be within the same season, but unsure for AUK.
An SR series is by definition within one season.
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: iroiromono on 06 October, 2022, 10:45:46 am
ACP's definition for their Awards is:

Quote
"The rider must complete the qualifying events listed below within a four-year period (to the day) : – a full series of ACP-sanctioned 200, 300, 400, 600, and 1000 km Brevets de Randonneurs Mondiaux..."

I guess this is just a series of events not a SR series
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 06 October, 2022, 03:33:28 pm
ACP's definition for their Awards is:

Quote
"The rider must complete the qualifying events listed below within a four-year period (to the day) : – a full series of ACP-sanctioned 200, 300, 400, 600, and 1000 km Brevets de Randonneurs Mondiaux..."

I guess this is just a series of events not a SR series
I believe this is true, but that's moot really, since to gain the ACP R5000, you MUST complete PBP, to enter PBP you MUST ride a qualifying SR series, so to achieve the R5000,  an SR series must have been ridden (in the relevant PBP year) People could claim with different rides, but why bother?
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: Zed43 on 06 October, 2022, 05:13:14 pm
Good point. But the question remains if the 200-300-400-600 needs to be completed in one year for the AudaxUK specific 5000 award since that does not require PBP but just any 1200+ brevet. Also, AudaxUK is usually a bit more lenient IMO.

From experience, for the ACP 10000 award you can do the 1000km brevet(s) in different years from the your other brevets. Which implies that at least your 2nd SR series can also be spread out over multiple seasons (again, for ACP 10k). But the 2x 1000km is a specific requirement AFAIK, you can't substitute one with a longer 1200+ event from LRM.
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 06 October, 2022, 11:40:48 pm
Quote
"The B5000 requires a Randonnée of 1200 km or more, a Super Randonneur series, 1000 km, 24 hour team ride, plus other events to a total of 5000 km, all BR or BRM, all ridden within a 4 year period."
Do people interpret this as a SR Series in a single season, or simply a collection of 200,300,400 and 600 over the 4 year period? I'd rather use a "spare" 600 from last season and "save" the Oveerseas 1200 I did this summer for B5000 #3

For the ACP awards they don't require the rides to be within the same season, but unsure for AUK.
the AUK claim form does not call for you to identify the exact qualifying rides, only put the years covering the ride, I would expect the recorder to choose the appropriate 2,3,4 and 6 and not use the 12, UNLESS the rules require them to be ridden in the same year. So really the question is how the recorder interprets the requirements. Put them form in and ask the question.
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: cygnet on 06 October, 2022, 11:55:02 pm
ACP's definition for their Awards is:

Quote
"The rider must complete the qualifying events listed below within a four-year period (to the day) : – a full series of ACP-sanctioned 200, 300, 400, 600, and 1000 km Brevets de Randonneurs Mondiaux..."

I guess this is just a series of events not a SR series
I believe this is true, but that's moot really, since to gain the ACP R5000, you MUST complete PBP, to enter PBP you MUST ride a qualifying SR series, so to achieve the R5000,  an SR series must have been ridden (in the relevant PBP year) People could claim with different rides, but why bother?

Technically in ACP terms, you don't need an SR to qualify for PBP, as they let longer rides substitute for shorter rides as qualification. But you won't get an ACP SR that way.
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: iroiromono on 07 October, 2022, 03:06:05 am
Quote
"The B5000 requires a Randonnée of 1200 km or more, a Super Randonneur series, 1000 km, 24 hour team ride, plus other events to a total of 5000 km, all BR or BRM, all ridden within a 4 year period."
Do people interpret this as a SR Series in a single season, or simply a collection of 200,300,400 and 600 over the 4 year period? I'd rather use a "spare" 600 from last season and "save" the Oveerseas 1200 I did this summer for B5000 #3

For the ACP awards they don't require the rides to be within the same season, but unsure for AUK.
the AUK claim form does not call for you to identify the exact qualifying rides, only put the years covering the ride, I would expect the recorder to choose the appropriate 2,3,4 and 6 and not use the 12, UNLESS the rules require them to be ridden in the same year. So really the question is how the recorder interprets the requirements. Put them form in and ask the question.

Interesting. I usually provide all the AUKref numbers for the qualifying rides for the awards to ensure efficient allocation of the rides when for example claiming multiple of the same award, i.e. #2 and #3 B5000. Need to try and catch up with Steve Ralphs ;)

Another point. One can only be an SR ones per season, but can claim multiple SR Series in a single season for awards. For example in 2019 I did 3 and used these for my B25,000 award
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: quixoticgeek on 07 October, 2022, 03:18:27 am

Technically in ACP terms, you don't need an SR to qualify for PBP, as they let longer rides substitute for shorter rides as qualification. But you won't get an ACP SR that way.

Also as the 4 year counter for the ACP award is from the start of the first event that you use to count towards it. If you start the counter with PBP, then the SR series needed to qualify for PBP doesn't count towards your ACP 5000 award...

J
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: Wycombewheeler on 07 October, 2022, 08:52:38 am


Interesting. I usually provide all the AUKref numbers for the qualifying rides for the awards to ensure efficient allocation of the rides when for example claiming multiple of the same award, i.e. #2 and #3 B5000. Need to try and catch up with Steve Ralphs ;)

Another point. One can only be an SR ones per season, but can claim multiple SR Series in a single season for awards. For example in 2019 I did 3 and used these for my B25,000 award
are you not using this form?
https://www.audax.uk/media/1985/awards-claim-form.docx

which is very different from the ACP form, that does require all he references
http://www.audax-club-parisien.com/download/20130201_0300_R5000_formulaire_FR.doc
Title: Re: Brevet 5000 question.
Post by: iroiromono on 07 October, 2022, 11:38:12 am


Interesting. I usually provide all the AUKref numbers for the qualifying rides for the awards to ensure efficient allocation of the rides when for example claiming multiple of the same award, i.e. #2 and #3 B5000. Need to try and catch up with Steve Ralphs ;)

Another point. One can only be an SR ones per season, but can claim multiple SR Series in a single season for awards. For example in 2019 I did 3 and used these for my B25,000 award
are you not using this form?
https://www.audax.uk/media/1985/awards-claim-form.docx (https://www.audax.uk/media/1985/awards-claim-form.docx)

which is very different from the ACP form, that does require all he references
http://www.audax-club-parisien.com/download/20130201_0300_R5000_formulaire_FR.doc (http://www.audax-club-parisien.com/download/20130201_0300_R5000_formulaire_FR.doc)


Yes using the structure of that form and emailing to recorder.

Note that it does say in the AUK form:
Quote
If you are claiming an award this can be based on the records in the results section of the Audax UK website. Alternatively please list the events you have completed showing Event start place and date and Brevet number.

When claiming B5000 where years may overlap, it is useful to specify which rides are relevant to which award claim.

i.e. for me I provided this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRkNWNOKatGCW7qKmC1R3xRf40Jft1oC0yLVv5FqkEXohofbvh8dfCOT_pfcCvkBGckM-0cXADKNGkM/pubhtml
 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vRkNWNOKatGCW7qKmC1R3xRf40Jft1oC0yLVv5FqkEXohofbvh8dfCOT_pfcCvkBGckM-0cXADKNGkM/pubhtml)


Ideally the new AUK database would have the rules setup to automatically calculate these in the most optimal way and ensure that results are automatically awarded.