Author Topic: Garmin E Trex "kills" my wireless computer  (Read 2416 times)

Garmin E Trex "kills" my wireless computer
« on: 20 July, 2011, 12:24:57 pm »
I haven't been using my GPS very much recently, but had a solo ride to Tring recently and then the DunRun.

Both times I've noticed that the GPS, when it's in "pointy arrow mode" emits some sort of signal which completely kills the wireless computer I have.
If I switch the GPS to another mode, I get some of the data display back, if I switch it off, all is normal.

It really seems to be interfering with the computer head unit rather than just blocking or scrambling the signal from the transmitter. At some points the head unit display goes completely blank. It also depends on which function the head unit is displaying as well.

Computer is a Cateye Strada wireless.

Does anyone elese have the same combination and see anything different, or does anyone have the same computer in conjunction with one of the newer Garmin colour GPS systems?

The Mechanic

Re: Garmin E Trex "kills" my wireless computer
« Reply #1 on: 21 July, 2011, 08:26:04 am »
I have a Polar CS200Cad and it works fine with my Etrex Vista HCx.  Does your computer use coded signals or not.  That may be the difference because the CS200 uses coded.

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Garmin E Trex "kills" my wireless computer
« Reply #2 on: 21 July, 2011, 09:54:02 am »
It really seems to be interfering with the computer head unit

Better than the other way around (IMO).

Obviously this isn't going to be a practical suggestion, as handlebar real-estate is precious - but it may be a matter of moving one or other device by as little as an inch or two. 
I assume it's a recent (Cx or HCx) model.  The original ones (C) were less well screened (noticeably lighter weight).
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Garmin E Trex "kills" my wireless computer
« Reply #3 on: 25 July, 2011, 05:17:59 pm »
No it's the old bright yellow E trex.
There isn't a lot of options for moving either as the computer is on the bars and the GPS is stem mounted.
There's not really enough room to put the GPS on the bars on the other side.

So, is anyone running this combination of computer and the newer Etrex Cx/HCx sucessfully?

LittleWheelsandBig

  • Whimsy Rider
Re: Garmin E Trex "kills" my wireless computer
« Reply #4 on: 25 July, 2011, 07:13:45 pm »
HK has a stem-mounted HCx and various wireless Cateye computers (not Strada) on her bikes with no problem.
Wheel meet again, don't know where, don't know when...

Re: Garmin E Trex "kills" my wireless computer
« Reply #5 on: 30 July, 2011, 12:36:52 pm »
What you've got is an EMC (Electromagnetic Compatibility) problem.

The computer sounds like one of the older, non-coded variety, which are prone to being very easily susceptible to interference from other source.  Typically this is in an LED front light, where the LED illumination is modulated to control it's brightness, and power consumption.

Equally, it sounds like from comments made by others, that this particular Etrex is also poorly shielded, so the CPU is managing to radiate enough RF energy to interfere with the computer.

Generally this doesn't tend to happen, since there is normally sufficient shielding on any microcontroller (metal case), and they run on such low power levels, and often at relatively low speeds, that EMC tends not to rear it's ugly head.

Unfortunately, the wireless computers use very low levels of signal, to make the battery last as long as possible, so even very slight levels of interference can stop them from working.

Some modern designs of bicycle computer use coding schemes, which make them more immune to interference, but also tends to make them more expensive, they are becoming more common though, so the price is also dropping.

With the equipment you've got, you really only have two solutions, and only one is likely to be practical.

(i) Increase the shielding on the Etrex.  Essentially you need to put more metal around the Etrex to reduce the RF energy that's radiated by it.  This may be difficult to do in a way that is rugged enough, and still allows you to see the screen, and mount the GPS.  You can't shield the computer, because it needs to see the RF energy from the transmitter.  There are other techniques, but they're probably not practical for people on here.  You may be able to get away with removing the case from the Etrex, painting the insides with conductive paint, and then reassembling it.  The trouble with that, is that the paint isn't easily available, it's expensive, the box reassembly will likely be interfered with, and it's harder to deal with the screen, which is also a damned big (RF) hole in the case.

(ii) As others have said, increase the separation between the devices.  If they are currently close together, then even a small increase could be sufficient.  Even something like swapping them over may help, if the problematic internal components happen to be on the right (or wrong!) sides.  Of course with that specific scenario, you could also make things worse!
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

Adam

  • It'll soon be summer
    • Charity ride Durness to Dover 18-25th June 2011
Re: Garmin E Trex "kills" my wireless computer
« Reply #6 on: 30 July, 2011, 12:48:50 pm »
I found I've got a similar issue using the SatMap Active 10.  When the screen brightness is at 80% or higher, it kills the signal going to a wireless computer.  I'd tried a Halfords one and an Aldi one.
“Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance you must keep moving.” -Albert Einstein

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Garmin E Trex "kills" my wireless computer
« Reply #7 on: 31 July, 2011, 09:32:14 am »
You may be able to get away with removing the case from the Etrex, painting the insides with conductive paint, and then reassembling it. 

If that works, it'll probably also somewhat reduce the sensitivity of the GPS, which uses an internal omnidirectional aerial ...
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Garmin E Trex "kills" my wireless computer
« Reply #8 on: 31 July, 2011, 10:19:36 am »
You may be able to get away with removing the case from the Etrex, painting the insides with conductive paint, and then reassembling it. 

If that works, it'll probably also somewhat reduce the sensitivity of the GPS, which uses an internal omnidirectional aerial ...

OK, yes, I probably assumed that this was obvious, you really wouldn't want to paint the case where the antenna is, which is obviously a serious limitation, since it'll let lots of the RF out, which you want to block from the computer.

That's often the problem with EMC on devices which need antennas on them, you have to try block some RF, without blocking the required RF.

In a real serious engineering solution, you'd put the electronics inside a screened enclosure, then do something like have the RF element outside of the enclosure, or just the antenna outside.  You then have to get the signal through the enclosure without compromising the efficacy of that enclosure.  I won't go into the details of techniques for doing that, because it's starting to get seriously off topic!

I was trying to suggest that whilst you can apply some limited EMC techniques, they're probably going to complicated, expensive, and not be that useful.

Increased physical separation is the easiest and most efficient technique, if you're restricted to using the same devices.

The best solution is probably using a more modern wireless computer, which is more immune to EMC issues, but I'm not sure which those are, so you're limited to believing the manufacturers blurb, and the experience of people on here, and similar.
Actually, it is rocket science.
 

frankly frankie

  • I kid you not
    • Fuchsiaphile
Re: Garmin E Trex "kills" my wireless computer
« Reply #9 on: 31 July, 2011, 06:24:00 pm »
Googling the Cateye Strada, it doesn't seem to offer anything significant that the GPS can't do on its own ...
when you're dead you're done, so let the good times roll

Re: Garmin E Trex "kills" my wireless computer
« Reply #10 on: 31 July, 2011, 06:55:46 pm »
Googling the Cateye Strada, it doesn't seem to offer anything significant that the GPS can't do on its own ...

I've had GPSs manage to both overread and underread, so sometimes it's useful to have a computer to give an accurate measure of mileage, and similar parameters.
Actually, it is rocket science.