Author Topic: Elephant in the room  (Read 3564 times)

fruitcake

  • some kind of fruitcake
Re: Elephant in the room
« Reply #50 on: 17 April, 2024, 01:43:58 pm »
14mph seems a sensible and informative ride descriptor. Enough people have either a phone/GPS or a cycle computer to know if they can maintain 14mph. Social on the other hand means different things to different people, and so newcomers may misinterpret it as 'bimbling pace'.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Elephant in the room
« Reply #51 on: 17 April, 2024, 01:55:10 pm »
Are the ride descriptions aimed at newcomers or those who are already club members? I'd presume the latter, unless it's specifically marked as a newbies' ride.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Elephant in the room
« Reply #52 on: 17 April, 2024, 05:36:17 pm »
Numeric speed bands "on the flat" do not work to differentiate riders of different ability in a road club because (a) riding in an even moderately tight group you can achieve much faster speeds than riding alone and (b) mismatched groups are usually able to stay together on the flat, but the group falls to bits on the climbs, often drastically so.

Really groups should be differentiated by W/kg which corresponds closely to speed up hills, but in the absence of that most group names and numbers are really proxies for "That group contains Greg and Dave, who I know are about the same speed as me", which is fine for regulars but useless for newbies, or for that one week both Greg and Dave are away.


Re: Elephant in the room
« Reply #53 on: 17 April, 2024, 05:57:45 pm »
Numeric speed bands "on the flat" do not work to differentiate riders of different ability in a road club because (a) riding in an even moderately tight group you can achieve much faster speeds than riding alone and (b) mismatched groups are usually able to stay together on the flat, but the group falls to bits on the climbs, often drastically so.

This is true, but it generally only happens in any meaningful way on large climbs, of which there generally aren't more than two or three on your average club run*  and it is therefore feasible for riders to assemble at the top of a big climb if people drop off. 

In the club I occasionally ride in there are three speed groups. Sometimes these groups might subdivide again.

There only time I've encountered a problem is with one particular dickhead who doesn't ride for months then turns up and expects to ride in the the group he always rides in (the middle one) because he's "not a shit rider".

Well, he is pretty shit and If the ride starts with a major climb (not unlikely if you live in a Cotswold valley)he drops off straight away.

We are then faced with the dilemma of wondering if he's decided to ride appropriately with the slowest group.  If you make the mistake of thinking he has then 30 minutes later he appears shouting, swearing and screaming that we didn't wait for him. Absolute selfish twat.

*Club in Cotswolds, so generally hillier rides than most I'd guess.

Re: Elephant in the room
« Reply #54 on: 17 April, 2024, 05:58:20 pm »
Obviously, this should be a degree subject.

rogerzilla

  • When n+1 gets out of hand
Re: Elephant in the room
« Reply #55 on: 17 April, 2024, 05:59:17 pm »
The problem arises when there's no other choice of club in your area.  I can't ride with clubs anyway these days, as most have a mandatory helmet rule.
Hard work sometimes pays off in the end, but laziness ALWAYS pays off NOW.

ravenbait

  • Someone's imaginary friend
  • No, RB3, you can't have more tupperware.
    • Someone's imaginary friend
Re: Elephant in the room
« Reply #56 on: 17 April, 2024, 06:23:55 pm »
The problem arises when there's no other choice of club in your area.  I can't ride with clubs anyway these days, as most have a mandatory helmet rule.
The only times I've tried to join a club (more than one time, more than one club) they've flat out refused to have me on the grounds I only have one eye, so screw the lot of them. But clubs are not obligated to cater to everyone, even if they are the only ones in an area.

Sam
https://ravenbait.com
"Created something? Hah! But that would be irresponsible! And unethical! I would never, ever make... more than one."

Re: Elephant in the room
« Reply #57 on: 17 April, 2024, 06:40:40 pm »
In the club I occasionally ride in there are three speed groups. Sometimes these groups might subdivide again.

There only time I've encountered a problem is with one particular dickhead who doesn't ride for months then turns up and expects to ride in the the group he always rides in (the middle one) because he's "not a shit rider".

Well, he is pretty shit and If the ride starts with a major climb (not unlikely if you live in a Cotswold valley)he drops off straight away.

We are then faced with the dilemma of wondering if he's decided to ride appropriately with the slowest group.  If you make the mistake of thinking he has then 30 minutes later he appears shouting, swearing and screaming that we didn't wait for him. Absolute selfish twat.

LMAO!!!!
Made me laugh anyway!

Mind you, I know how he feels. I've lost count of the number of times I've returned home to arrivee on an audax only to find the controller's hastily washing up the cups and my car is the only one remaining in the car park :-)
Garry Broad

Re: Elephant in the room
« Reply #58 on: 18 April, 2024, 03:25:25 pm »
Haven't done a club ride since COVID started and only did them at quite irregular intervals.

When I did, I started with the fast group because it was only going out that day.  I think I did quite well, but I soon realised I was out of my league and told the last rider I was going to pack. I was disappointed but it wasn't their fault I couldn't keep up!  I got fitter and did more rides with the club's mid-range quite satisfactorily.  I did try the slow group but they ambled along too much.

I guess if I go along again they will look at me and my old steelie and send me out with the leisurely crew!  It is a great way to discover new and better routes though.
Move Faster and Bake Things

ElyDave

  • Royal and Ancient Polar Bear Society member 263583
Re: Elephant in the room
« Reply #59 on: 23 April, 2024, 07:51:31 pm »
This is, in part why I'm no longer part of a club.

As a newly diagnosed type 1 diabetic, trying to learn how to manage the condition, I was stopping to test every hour. There were certain twunts in the club, despite the pre ride briefing decided to leave me for dead. Unfortunately the rest decided to follow.

Now a moot point as I have a CGM but that particular a$@ehole is still in the club
“Procrastination is the thief of time, collar him.” –Charles Dickens

Re: Elephant in the room
« Reply #60 on: 23 April, 2024, 08:15:11 pm »
I've never joined or ridden with a club, but when I was starting out distance riding I did a few FNRTTC's.  I stopped doing them because I found the policy of "leaving no-one behind" meant I was waiting around at the top of hills (e.g. Ditchling) and, during the winter especially, getting bloody cold (who can forget the night of the horizontal hail  :o).

Not complaining - the rides were great fun.  Guess I just outgrew them.  But going the speed of the slowest can put off other riders off who aren't fast enough to join the next group up (if there is one) but also don't want to be constantly stopping.  Of course many others may not mind in the slightest  ;)
The sound of one pannier flapping

Re: Elephant in the room
« Reply #61 on: 23 April, 2024, 09:41:54 pm »
I think the trick with FNRTTC, if you’re one of the faster ones; is either dress for and ride easy, or do hill repeats on some hills till the rear makes an appearance.

Re: Elephant in the room
« Reply #62 on: 23 April, 2024, 09:52:18 pm »
I think the trick with FNRTTC, if you’re one of the faster ones; is either dress for and ride easy, or do hill repeats on some hills till the rear makes an appearance.

Absolutely - and as I say it's not meant as a criticism of the FNRTTC'c in any way.  They are a unique and fantastic institution and I enjoyed them enormously.  Just saying that on club-rides with a similar policy you risk putting off more people than you are encouraging.
The sound of one pannier flapping

Kim

  • Timelord
    • Fediverse
Re: Elephant in the room
« Reply #63 on: 23 April, 2024, 10:32:56 pm »
I think the trick with FNRTTC, if you’re one of the faster ones; is either dress for and ride easy, or do hill repeats on some hills till the rear makes an appearance.

Yep, I've been known to do both.  Riding towards the back (if not actually TECing) is my preferred approach in cold conditions, as it makes regulating temperature so much easier.  Waymarking is a warm-weather activity.