Author Topic: Southend Cycle Town - part 2  (Read 240651 times)

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1000 on: 28 September, 2011, 01:57:52 pm »
On my way home from work at about 17:30 yesterday evening there was a cyclist down just east of the casino on the cycle path. Didn't look good. Ambulance in attendance etc. etc. Anyone know what happened. It didn't look like a car was involved.

Bugger


Bet the council will deny it/claim it's the cyclists fault for riding too fast on a leisure path (as they told me re the last one).




Did anybody else see in the Echo that another pedestrian has been knocked over on City Beach by a car?  Shared space my arse.   I drove through there last night (17:00, so just before Fatbloke's attendance :( )in the rush hour having left the office.    Pedestrians crowded by the kerbside waiting to cross and all drivers (bar me) just driving by.

I was also disgusted to count just 6 cyclists on the seafront path in the rush hour.  5 years ago when I cycled that every day I'd have expected to see 10 to 15 per day at that time.    Cycle Town?  I don't think so!  Where have the cyclists gone?

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Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1001 on: 28 September, 2011, 02:23:36 pm »
...   I drove through there last night (17:00, so just before Fatbloke's attendance ...


I was also disgusted to count just 6 cyclists on the seafront path in the rush hour.  5 years ago when I cycled that every day I'd have expected to see 10 to 15 per day at that time.    Cycle Town?  I don't think so!  Where have the cyclists gone?

They'd heard you were driving and knew of your reputation with things mechanical?    ;) :P
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Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1003 on: 17 October, 2011, 12:50:26 am »
The point of shared space is to remove the need for signs. The whole environment should give the message to the driver that there is no obvious priority of passage for them so they have to pay attention to their surroundings. Or rather the absence of the great simplification of the environment that would otherwise be offered by conventional highway design (including warning signs) makes high speeds impossible.

Of course this goes against "common sense". We have had decades of engineering measures (guard railings, white painted lane markings, smooth curves, visibility splays, official crossing points and so on). The effect of these has always to facilitate high speed traffic by giving drivers a great deal of certainty of their way ahead, and pass the entire responsibility for safety onto everybody else to keep out of their path. All this has been sold to us on the basis of "road safety", but the effect is always to marginalise non-motorised traffic for the convenience of drivers.

If you look at some of the neanderthal attitudes from Lib Dem Councilors quoted in the report:
"Someone could drive along the rest of the seafront and enter the area without knowing. What would happen then if they hit somebody?"
"Would they have a defence because of the lack of warning and the fact it is still legally a road?
You can see that their real concern the poor motorists (Jeremy Clarkson is also a prominent opponent of shared space). The attitude is that it is perfectly OK to hit people on normal roads.

Now looking at some of the photos with the signs it doesn't look at all like shared space - just like a conventional road with all the traditional highway engineering paraphanalia - kerbs, traffic lights, cattle pens and so on to keep all those pesky pedestrians firmly in their place. It won't become a shared space simply by putting up a sign. This suggests that either the designers haven't a clue what shared space entails or the sign writers haven't a clue where the shared space is.

AndyK

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1004 on: 17 October, 2011, 08:57:31 am »
Pete, that is absolutely spot on. You should repost it in the comments under the story.

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Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1005 on: 17 October, 2011, 09:00:37 am »
Seconded!  :thumbsup:
Certainly never seen cycling south of Sussex

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1006 on: 17 October, 2011, 08:31:29 pm »
..... It won't become a shared space simply by putting up a sign. This suggests that either the designers haven't a clue what shared space entails .......

I don't think the designers do know what shared space it.     You are absolutely correct in that the seafront is a
--> pavement | kerb | road | kerb | pavement  <--
layout.



Southend Council publicised TWO shared space schemes.  They are still referring to "Victoria Gateway" as a shared space scheme.

Here's the Council's publicity design picture

Here it is, photographed on flickr by somebody.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fred_bear/5591924371/in/photostream/lightbox/

Yes, that is a 30mph dual carriageway T-Junciton with traffic lights you can see.    Where is the shared space?   I think the Council refer to that triangular pavement (separated from the train station by a dedicated bus lane to the left of the photo) as 'shared space'...


Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1007 on: 18 October, 2011, 08:13:51 am »
I thought the shared space area was the grayed part of the road. Tbh I quite like the Victoria Gateway. Its a lot better to navigate the area on bicycle imo.
Shared space is a good idea as well. The thing that saddens me most is motorists who say they dont understand the bit of road/shared space they are on, but will not do the simple thing and slow down.
 

AndyK

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1008 on: 18 October, 2011, 08:49:51 am »
I thought the shared space area was the grayed part of the road. Tbh I quite like the Victoria Gateway. Its a lot better to navigate the area on bicycle imo.
Shared space is a good idea as well. The thing that saddens me most is motorists who say they dont understand the bit of road/shared space they are on, but will not do the simple thing and slow down.
 

I had a woman in a white Range Rover tell me to "Get on the cycle lane because 'we' pay enough for people like you", as I made my way along City Beach yesterday.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1009 on: 18 October, 2011, 09:17:23 am »
Should have told her to use the A13, cause 'we' pay enough for people like you  ;D

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Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1010 on: 18 October, 2011, 09:41:58 am »
I hope you asked her if she actually paid council tax in Southend.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

AndyK

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1011 on: 18 October, 2011, 04:16:18 pm »
I didn't have time. I had asked her to please try not to kill anyone after she overtook me 30 yards from the red light at the Kursaal, and that's when she went into moton/Clarkson mode. I couldn't be arsed with getting into the minutiae of car tax/road tax/council tax/we-all-pay-the-same-taxes-it isn't-my-fault-you-don't-use-all-the-facilities-provided-for-you... as the lights were changing, so just told her to 'Get that ugly pile of wank moving, you're holding up traffic'.

AndyK

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1012 on: 18 October, 2011, 06:59:22 pm »
This is how invisible cyclists in Southend are:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/hqAm3Xzq35g&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/hqAm3Xzq35g&rel=1</a>

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1013 on: 18 October, 2011, 11:21:00 pm »
At the end of the day a simple "fuck off" is usually the clearest message.
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Re: Sometimes cyclists are the baddies....
« Reply #1014 on: 27 October, 2011, 01:08:56 pm »
Interesting thought comes from a comment over on the locked thread from this morning...


Honest John, but where is the law banning inline and quad skaters from cycle lanes?  If you can't find that, it's only your opinion, and it's wrong.



I've already referred you to the relevant legislation.

Some cycle lanes/tracks/paths can be only for cyclists.  It is only those cycle lanes/tracks/paths which have been created from a pre-existing footpath which by default can be used by pedestrians.


Since the seafront path has been created from the existing carriageway does this mean it is to all extents and purposes a "road" which can be used by cyclists, vehicles, skaters, pedestrians?

I am not aware of any requests that the council have made with regards this path, and since it was not a footway conversion they wouldn't have had to go down the 1984 cycletracks act route* either...


Any thoughts from any relevant parties in here?







* hmmmm, this makes me think, Cuckoo Corner now has painted lanes on the pavement, would these have needed legal requests put in?   I wonder if the Council did that or just put paint down?

Re: Sometimes cyclists are the baddies....
« Reply #1015 on: 27 October, 2011, 08:20:12 pm »
Since the seafront path has been created from the existing carriageway does this mean it is to all extents and purposes a "road" which can be used by cyclists, vehicles, skaters, pedestrians?


I personally doubt that, but don't actually know. I'd guess that you can't take a pavement away from a pedestrian by turning it into a cyclepath. But the cars still have a road to use in this case, so still have somewhere to go.
But, as I don't know for sure, I'll keep this in mind the next time I use a Sustrans converted railway and keep an eye out for trains. ;)

AndyK

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1016 on: 01 November, 2011, 05:22:43 pm »
Any ideas as to what the thinking is behind doing this to the entrance/exit of the Western Esplanade cycle track? It isn't finished yet, but it looks a perfect way to get an unsuspecting cyclist to do a faceplant as they hit the kerb.




Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1017 on: 01 November, 2011, 05:31:05 pm »
Are they raising the kerb to prevent vehicles driving on the path?

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1018 on: 01 November, 2011, 05:40:02 pm »
That area was a bit of a problem area with cars stopping to go into the three shells thing.
 

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1019 on: 01 November, 2011, 05:40:40 pm »
I did see that they appeared to have widened the footpath/done other work there last time I went through (last September).

Are they extending it to the non-shared space of shitty beach?

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1020 on: 01 November, 2011, 05:45:49 pm »
It was originally going to go under the pier, but I thought that got scrapped  :-\

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1021 on: 01 November, 2011, 05:48:35 pm »
Original plan was south of Adventure Island (under the pier where there is no headroom).  That was scrapped.

Not heard anything (Council doesn't talk to local cycling reps) but from what I saw last time I passed I did wonder if they were going to extend it under pier between pavement and road.

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Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1022 on: 01 November, 2011, 05:51:35 pm »
Has anyone asked Sara Hadden? I think she's got her heart in the right place, even though she's nowhere near policy-making.
Quote from: Dez
It doesn’t matter where you start. Just start.

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1023 on: 01 November, 2011, 05:51:57 pm »
Quote
but from what I saw last time I passed I did wonder if they were going to extend it under pier between pavement and road.

It looked like that to me, but I dont use that part of the seafront now, or havent for a few months. Normally go up Pier Hill to get away from it   :(

Looking at the plans of Western Esplanard it looks as though originally the cycle path was going to end there. Looks as though for some reason it wasnt done before. And there is a reference to Diagram 1003 new drop kerb arangement

Re: Southend Cycle Town - part 2
« Reply #1024 on: 06 November, 2011, 07:03:57 pm »
I see there is going to be a Hill Climb event along Pier Hill, 11th Dec 12-4pm
Not sure if there is a link to the event
http://www.cyclesouthend.co.uk/events-and-activities/pier-pressure/