[HAMR] How far did Tommy ride March '39 to March '40 ?

[LeoW]

Tommy's record for a calendar year must be higher than 75,065 if he started off slowly but then averaged 200 miles a day for 500 days.

Leo

[red marley]

Good point. He completed the 100,000 on the 14 May 1940. By 13th May 1939 he had covered 22,999 miles, which means  he actually covered 77,001 miles in the 12 months from 14th May 1939.

Not sure that will worry Steve and Kurt too much though. What's another 2,000 miles? Pfft.

[clarion]

I hadn't noticed that.  Interesting.

[Fidgetbuzz]

But fascinating as it clearly demonstrates that Tommy's record is for a calendar year - with the corollary that Kurt has a problem after starting on 10th Jan, as he will only ride for 355 days in 2015, although he could of course take the 365 day record .

[jsabine]

Scarcely a problem - all the current attempts are under UMCA rules rather than Cycling rules, surely?

The fact that Steve has started on Jan 1st so his UMCA timing is congruent with the calendar year record is interesting - especially to him and to us as a UK audience - but a diversion.

[LeoW]

Perhaps the moderator could change the topic title to "....from May '39 to May '40" ?

So :
 Kurt's target = 77,001+ miles in 365 days
 Steve's target = 75,065+ miles in a calendar year

But as both are aiming their schedules around 80,000 miles my point may be moot.

Leo

[oft moot pointed]

[The Seldom Killer]

I think it more rests on the principle that once you've started your attempt, it's the next 365 days that count. It's a common thing withrecord attempts of all stripes. Stringing it out to bump up the result isn't really seen to count. For instance, a 10 mile TT doesn't allow you to carry on for a bit and finish beyond the line to mitigate the effects of a standing start.

[eck]

I think it more rests on the principle that once you've started your attempt, it's the next 365 days that count. It's a common thing withrecord attempts of all stripes. Stringing it out to bump up the result isn't really seen to count. For instance, a 10 mile TT doesn't allow you to carry on for a bit and finish beyond the line to mitigate the effects of a standing start.

When I told my late f-i-l that I'd narrowly missed getting 600k on my first 24hr TT, he asked why I didn't just keep going for another five minutes. 

[Exit Stage Left]

One interesting thought is that anyone could start an attempt at any time. If there's enough publicity to be had, it could tempt others.
A strong 24 hour rider could join Steve and ride a two-up until Dec 31, and carry on after. It might be worth $300 just to frighten the opposition.

[LeoW]

I think it more rests on the principle that once you've started your attempt, it's the next 365 days that count. It's a common thing withrecord attempts of all stripes. Stringing it out to bump up the result isn't really seen to count. For instance, a 10 mile TT doesn't allow you to carry on for a bit and finish beyond the line to mitigate the effects of a standing start.

365 standing starts is 365 standing starts ?

I like the concept of Jan 1st Jan 1st - if you muck about with that to gain some sort of preview advantage then you should be tested against Tommy with hindsight advantage.

Leo

[The Seldom Killer]

Jan1st to Jan 1st fails because a rider could exploit a leap year.

I dislike a compulsion to start an attempt on Jan 1st. If you had decided you wanted to make an attempt but a Jan 1st start became unsuitable should you just loose a day/days or wait a whole other year to get started? It seems a bit ridiculous. It's not just about testing yourself against Tommy. If it were then Kurts ride would be completely unacceptable because he's riding in a country that isn't the UK and Steve would have to be disqualified in August unless we enter into a domestic war.

[Frank9755]

It's a very good point.  It seems only fair to credit Tommy with what he achieved in his best 365-day period.  Someone riding 76,000 miles could hardly claim to have broken his record. 

[3peaker]

I have just bought “Unsurpassed”, a paperback published in 2012 by friend of Tommy Godwin. It is an excellent record and obviously a reference manual for followers of our SA. What folk may not be familiar with/aware of is a 1971 attempt at both the 1Y and 100,000mile records held by TG (now does TG stand for Teeth Grinder as an honourable reference to Tommy Godwin when he invented his TG?).  It would appear Ken Webb’s claim was discredited by examples of “cheating”.  So SA’s bid for 80,000+ should be serious, to overtake the previous attempt (and discredited claim) of 80,647 and a 100,000 record of 448days.

[Byronius Maximus]

This fascinating; it's a quirky section of cycling history that so few people know about and all these little stories are coming out of the woodwork now there are two riders giving it a serious go. Amazing to think that Godwin's "365 day" record was even higher than the 75065 that was already so astonishing.

[thing1]

curiouser and curiouser.

In just the same was as Leo points out for Tommy, if Steve or Kurt hammer the HAM'R and decide to go on for the 100,000 mile record, they too could unofficially beat their own (or the other's) HAM'R record. It would be kind of take the shine off the record to know if stood for just some months for being unofficially (yet equally verifiably) beaten.

[red marley]

I'm not so sure it would take the shine off the official record. After all, we know from Audaxing, that it is harder to complete a distance when stated in advance when that will happen and between which controls. Taking the 'best 365 days' out of a longer period is quite a different thing.

And I know no-one has yet said it out loud, but I wouldn't completely rule out the possibility that at some point in the future a rider could complete the 100,000 inside a year.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

It would be feasible in a velomobile.

[Mr Larrington]

I'm not sure I'd like to be in the same parish as a velomobile, or a velomobilista, after a 24-hour record run, never mind a year

HPV 24-hour record is currently 757.5 miles; there were mutterings in BM last year concerning the feasibilty of a thousand mile '24', though something capable of that would be difficult to make road-usable.

[hillbilly]

But fascinating as it clearly demonstrates that Tommy's record is for a calendar year - with the corollary that Kurt has a problem after starting on 10th Jan, as he will only ride for 355 days in 2015, although he could of course take the 365 day record .

Fundamentally disagree.  There is nothing special about 1 Jan.  Regardless of when you start, you still have to ride in each day of each of the 12 months.

One could also observe that calendar years are not uniform but 365 days are.  Next year is a leap year - would that stop on 30 December?

Or that 1 Jan is in a different season here in the Northern hemisphere compared to the Southern.

What the current record says to me is that "Tommy declared he was starting is record attempt on 1 Jan".  It is the declared start date that is fundamental.

How the UMCA has set this up is sensible and comparable.  At least as far as time period goes.  I still can't get my head around why they permit recumbents to be classed alongside uprights.  I view this as fundamentally changing the terms of Tommys record and is my only criticism of Tarzan to date.  I give Steve additional kudos (to an already unfathomable amount) for sticking to one format of bike. 

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Tommy set his mileage record in a year, in 1939 to be precise. Steve will do the same in 2015.

Kurt hopes to set a 365 day cumulative total in 2015 and 2016. This is not quite the same thing, which is why Tommy's highest 365 day total hasn't been recognised previously.

[Mr Larrington]

Has anyone been able to determine whether Tommy would have been permitted to ride a recumbent should he have wanted to?  Admittedly they weren't as readily available as they are now but Cyclo and F.H. Grubb both had BRITISH-built machines for sale pre-WW2.

[hillbilly]

Tommy set his mileage record in a year, in 1939 to be precise. Steve will do the same in 2015.

Kurt hopes to set a 365 day cumulative total in 2015 and 2016. This is not quite the same thing, which is why Tommy's highest 365 day total hasn't been recognised previously.

He declared he would start the record attempt on 1 Jan.  different thing in my opinion.  This feels like trying to piss on Kurt's chips.

[hillbilly]

If I were reading this, I'd look at Tommys record and think "would it be better to start the 100000 mile record attempt first and then declare the start for the year record during this."

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Think what you like HB. They are both going for a 365 day record under UMCA rules but I know which one is a year record attempt.

[hillbilly]

Each to their own.