A17 near Holbeach

[alwyn]

I may have to look at alternative routes for LEL east of Spalding. Actually, that should be route in the singular, as, there's only one option, crossing the Welland over Fosdyke Bridge.

I can route along farm roads, but there's a fairly obvious main road bash along the A17 between Holbeach and Fosdyke that shaves 5km each way. Anyone have any experience of this road? What's it like on a weekend or during the day?

[Chris S]

It's an horrendous truck-fest.

Just don't. It's an incredibly dangerous piece of road, even in a car.

Here's the bridge: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.8710234,-0.0420541,3a,75y,311.36h,83.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sgu0zWapQPefUND6-R1N1bw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

Two narrow lanes, populated with heavy artics day and night, and it's NSL, so 60mph. No way 

(Yes, I think that is a Cyclists Dismount sign - even they think it's too dangerous to cycle over, so you're supposed to get off and walk your bike over)

[teethgrinder]

I've ridden a fair bit of A17 in the last year at different times of day and both weekends and midweek.
I don't find it to be too bad, but not fun. It is a "High Risk" stretch of road AFAIK.
 I don't know where the two controls that you're trying to link up are. The lanes (NCN 1) from Kirton to the A17 are great. Very narrow, but almost empty and well surfaced. Just using the A17 to cross the Welland might be your best choice?
Then take the lanes north of the A17. Again, very quiet and well surfaced and you might be surprised how nice those roads are for cycling. I was hoping to use these roads a lot but the wind always spoiled that. It would probably need an info control.
I think you may need to account for potential traffic jams too, though I think that the A17 isn't especially bad.

As a possible alternative, I suggest going West of Spalding via Pinchbeck on the B1180 or the parallel lane north of that (very pleasant), then A151 south, 2nd R on L hand bend into the lanes
R then imm L at Traffic Lights
R@T
L@T A1175 to cross the Welland
R@rab to Cowbit, then you have either the B1352 then B1165 or a myriad of lanes to head further East

The A17 is a major truckers route. Allthough I don't think it's especially bad, I don't think it the best road to use for a high profile event with tired foreign riders.

Another option may be having a control in Spalding, though I suspect that will now involve a huge amount of work.

[alwyn]

Thanks - pretty much what I thought you'd say.

I can route so you literally only have to cross the bridge; there are lanes turning either side. It's not ideal but routing from Holbeach to Market Rasen via Spalding would add far too much distance.

[Rod Marton]

I agree with Steve. Don't use the A17 if at all possible. In fact stay off the trunk roads anywhere around that part of Lincolnshire, they have one of the highest fatality rates in the UK.

I don't know where you are going from or to, but Steve's route is much more pleasant. If you can get even further west, do so, the roads are still better there.

[The Seldom Killer]

Which two controls are you trying to link?

[alwyn]

I'm trying to link Holbeach and Market Rasen. There's a school right by the A17, and right by the school is an underpass I can use. I can then use the lanes up to the bridge. It's not ideal, but unbelievably there's a length of cycle track for the entire length of the A17 I'd use. So riders wouldn't even have to cross the A17, never mind use it.

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/11950864

It's not the most elegant of routing but it may be necessary if I book a control at Holbeach.

[The Seldom Killer]

If Holbeach is the better control option and it's only for northbound routing then rider tiredness isn't a big issue and I think your route is acceptable if not ideal.

If I were choosing a control location around there, I'd go with somewhere along the corridor up the Welland between Whittlesey and Gosberton. It adds the bonus that riders can also use commercial facilities in Spalding without a heavy diversion. But that's armchair advice so give that the value it deserves.

[teethgrinder]

That looks like your only choice to me, if you do use Holbeach.
I'd be surprised if nobody used the A17 instead of following the route. I know I'd be tempted, especially if helping tired riders.
I don't know if you have any other options for controls or where they may be. Somewhere around Holbeach St Mathews may be ideal, but I don't fancy your chances of finding anything there.
Even if my suggestion of going West of Spalding could work, I would again be surprised if nobody used the A16. So it looks to me as if your plan is the lesser potential evil and your best option.

[The Seldom Killer]

If you're using University Academy in Holbeach and it's northbound only, I think that once you've directed riders up Penny Hill Lane, very few riders will try to get over to the A17, particularly overseas riders. Depending on your departure schedule, you would be looking at a window of around 6 hours of riders crossing that bridge.

My other consideration would be other users of the cycle path. I would be inclined to stick a couple of marshals there for the most of the duration. You don't want some pedestrians trying to avoid a stream of cyclists by crossing the road that you've decided that is too dangerous to ride up.

Also, depending on rider's GPS units/reading comprehension, some may think they're supposed to go up the A17 rather than take the cycle path.

[alwyn]

No, it would be north and south bound, though the route is too far south for riders to clash.

I can't find a better way across and I've been looking for hours.

My control options round here are seriously limited and I've found myself surprisingly frustrated in finding somewhere to use. However since I started this thread I've had a phone call from another school that seem interested in hosting us. Let's see...

[The Seldom Killer]

Fair enough. If you can get the resources, I'd still marshal the bridge northbound. Southbound is less of an issue.

[alwyn]

If you're using University Academy in Holbeach...

That's the place. Marshalls on the bridge northbound would be crucial, and easily managed from Holbeach. I'd have to marshall the underpass too but I doubt it gets used much during the summer holidays.

This route is actually shorter than the 2013 route between St Ives and Market Rasen, and the crap bit to get across the Welland is only 900m. I can live with it but I get no pride from it.

[Phil W]

If you cross the A17 at Saracen's head, here on Street View, then you can shorten your route by 2.5km, but you add an extra km of the A17 before the bridge.

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.8255798,-0.0134022,3a,75y,299.87h,85.49t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sTFUw9LuyyV1Bn5r4zgGr4g!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DTFUw9LuyyV1Bn5r4zgGr4g%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D42.012146%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656

Sticking with your route as per ridebygps, you have taken a farm track (with no right of way) at Sluice Farm.   You want to go right there and then left, to stick with the road / lane.

In fact with the correct route around Sluice Farm the alternate route saves 3km, if you cross then follow the B1357 back to the A17.

Checked on Ordnance Survey, no further bridges till you hit the one east of Spalding.

[Chris S]

Obviously, I'm not the one who has to juggle control opportunities or lack thereof, but the 2013 route seemed fine to me. What's wrong with Spalding anyway?

[alwyn]

If you cross the A17 at Saracen's head, here on Street View, then you can shorten your route by 2.5km, but you add an extra km of the A17 before the bridge.

It's a nasty crossing too. I don't like the look of it at all. I don't think it's worth 1km of that road and that crossing to save 2.5km of distance.

Sticking with your route as per ridebygps, you have taken a farm track (with no right of way) at Sluice Farm.   You want to go right there and then left, to stick with the road / lane.

Ah! Good spot! Thought I'd changed that. It's corrected now.

[alwyn]

Obviously, I'm not the one who has to juggle control opportunities or lack thereof, but the 2013 route seemed fine to me. What's wrong with Spalding anyway?

I like the 2013 route too, and given half the chance I won't change it.

EDIT - I'd also really like to have a control in Spalding. I think it's a nice little town and it would suit LEL very well indeed.

[wajcgac]

I think that the fact there is a cycle path over the actual bridge on the right side going North is the redeeming factor as you don't need to go on the A17 proper at all.

Off topic slightly.

I notice the ridewithgps route uses the left side of the Witham from Kirkstead Bridge to Bardney. In fact no road exists along there.

I'm guessing the route should be this one along the Sustrans route.

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/11958747

Riders will need to exit the path at Southery and use the 'winter' route to Bardney via the B1190. The 'summer' route does continue past Southery but then relies on a bridleway a few hundred meters long to get to Bardney which is not really suitable for road bikes.

Also worth noting that there are about 6 gates to negotiate and a bit of a narrow access point at the Kirkstead Bridge end of this path. Distance remains almost identical to the original.

[Moleman76]

Can you approach Holbeach from the south, then go west to Spalding & resume the 2013 route?  This would obviously change the exit from St. Ives.

[Delph Cyclist]

I notice the ridewithgps route uses the left side of the Witham from Kirkstead Bridge to Bardney. In fact no road exists along there.

I'm guessing the route should be this one along the Sustrans route.

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/11958747

Riders will need to exit the path at Southery and use the 'winter' route to Bardney via the B1190. The 'summer' route does continue past Southery but then relies on a bridleway a few hundred meters long to get to Bardney which is not really suitable for road bikes.

Also worth noting that there are about 6 gates to negotiate and a bit of a narrow access point at the Kirkstead Bridge end of this path. Distance remains almost identical to the original.

I like that stretch of cyclepath alongside the river Witham and include it on the Pair of Kirtons 600 route.  In fact,  I used it myself for LEL2013 southbound, just for a variation of the north-bound route.  Velomobilists would find the gates rather a nuisance, although I leave it to others to decide whether that should be a factor. 

[wajcgac]

It is a good path and with a pretty good surface to it as well.

I wonder if the volume and speed of cyclists on LEL might cause an issue to those not on the event though. The path is not that wide in places, is popular with dog walkers, families with kids on bikes and walkers as well - particularly at weekends.

The route from Woodhall Spa to Market Rasen as per the 2013 LEL route is only 2km longer and is pleasant enough but possibly a bit more difficult to navigate.

[Moleman76]

Can you approach Holbeach from the south, then go west to Spalding & resume the 2013 route?  This would obviously change the exit from St. Ives.

That is, turn east at Thorney, follow B1167, B1166, and B1168 to Holbeach (note there seem to be many lanes paralleling B1168).

Then, A151 to Spalding (or, pieces of A151, together with the Cob Gate sequence on the south of A151).

[alwyn]

Off topic slightly.

I notice the ridewithgps route uses the left side of the Witham from Kirkstead Bridge to Bardney. In fact no road exists along there.

I'm guessing the route should be this one along the Sustrans route.

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/11958747

Riders will need to exit the path at Southery and use the 'winter' route to Bardney via the B1190. The 'summer' route does continue past Southery but then relies on a bridleway a few hundred meters long to get to Bardney which is not really suitable for road bikes.

Also worth noting that there are about 6 gates to negotiate and a bit of a narrow access point at the Kirkstead Bridge end of this path. Distance remains almost identical to the original.

Ah yes. Apologies, that's my lack of attention. I forgot to lock the route that far north when plotting. The plan would be to stick to the 2013 route through Woodhall Spa. We explored quite a few of the quieter roads last time, including the Sustrans track, and decided they were too fiddly.

[alwyn]

Can you approach Holbeach from the south, then go west to Spalding & resume the 2013 route?  This would obviously change the exit from St. Ives.

That is, turn east at Thorney, follow B1167, B1166, and B1168 to Holbeach (note there seem to be many lanes paralleling B1168).

Then, A151 to Spalding (or, pieces of A151, together with the Cob Gate sequence on the south of A151).

It would add too much distance, unfortunately.

[Moleman76]

Looks like we'll not need to go over to Holbeach now