Yet Another Cycling Forum

General Category => The Knowledge => Ctrl-Alt-Del => Topic started by: CAMRAMan on 20 May, 2019, 07:35:50 pm

Title: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: CAMRAMan on 20 May, 2019, 07:35:50 pm
My daughter is learning Python at school on a Pi, so I wanted to keep up with her and get my own.
I have a monitor, and I have vague ideas about a media centre set up, so which kit would best suit my needs?
Any suggestions for books or websites where I can get some ideas?
TIA
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: Vince on 20 May, 2019, 09:08:39 pm
Depends on how many USB connections you want. Pi Zero W is good/cheap, but only has a single micro USB port. PI 3 has 4 full size USB ports but costs twice the price. If buying a Zero, go for a kit that includes USB and HDMI adapters to use full sized plugs.
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: CAMRAMan on 20 May, 2019, 09:46:30 pm
I'll need at least 2 for the keyboard and mouse, plus any other ancillaries.
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: Tim Hall on 20 May, 2019, 09:55:37 pm
I'll need at least 2 for the keyboard and mouse, plus any other ancillaries.
Not necessarily.  You can run it without keyboard and mouse by SSHing in from a "proper" computer.
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: rusky on 20 May, 2019, 09:57:55 pm
If you are looking to learn Python with her then there's a free course here https://learndigital.withgoogle.com/digitalgarage/course/programming-for-everybody-python
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: Kim on 20 May, 2019, 09:58:49 pm
I'll need at least 2 for the keyboard and mouse, plus any other ancillaries.
Not necessarily.  You can run it without keyboard and mouse by SSHing in from a "proper" computer.

Or use a hub, presumably.

Perhaps a more deciding factor is whether you want wired Ethernet, and if you plan to use the I/O header, whether you're comfortable soldering on your own header pins.
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: fuaran on 20 May, 2019, 10:09:36 pm
I think you might as well get a Pi 3 B+. It is handier to have plenty of USB ports and ethernet built in, instead of having to use hubs and adapters etc. And the faster CPU and more memory will help for any sort of media/video playing, or just a desktop/web browser.

I wouldn't bother with the Zero, unless it needs to be really small, or low power consumption.
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: Pickled Onion on 21 May, 2019, 08:04:42 am
What do you want to do with the Pi? I assume you have a computer of some kind already, so if you want to learn Python then just use that. If it's a Windows computer install a linux bash shell and it will be quite like the Pi, if it's a Mac then the terminal is already available.
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: Greenbank on 21 May, 2019, 08:31:09 am
I'd go for a Pi 3 B+ and download the OS from Kano (www.kano.me). (Their kits are expensive but you can still download the OS from them for free).

Kano (the OS) comes with lots of educational games and other stuff all bundled together. My 9yo daughter plays with hers once a week or so without nudging her to do it.

I'd go for Kano over just dumping them at a terminal as the UI is much friendlier on Kano. Games like Scratch, Minecraft and "Make Pong" allow them to create code with building block style drag and crop but also see (or switch to) the raw python code to tweak it. The editors are a lot more friendly than trying to teach them vi in a terminal window!

The Pi Zero struggles to run some stuff with Kano (especially the latest versions of Minecraft that are Javascript based and played in a browser) so I upgraded her to a Pi 3 B+ which made all the difference.

I get most of my Pi stuff from here: https://thepihut.com/
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: CAMRAMan on 21 May, 2019, 10:22:52 am
Thanks for all the replies.

As plug and play is better for my remedial electronic skills; certainly no soldering.

I fancy a little play with the Pi rather than just using my own laptop.
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: tonycollinet on 25 May, 2019, 09:44:24 am
I've just started the python learning journey. Combined with arduino. Current plan is for a homebrew true power meter.

One option I'm using for the learning stage is Raspbian desktop running on an emulator. (I'm using the virtual machine on my synology NAS, but it will also run in virtualbox.)

Raspbian is the default OS for the PI, and what you get is somthing that looks and feels almost exactly like the pi, but you can run it from your PC. There's even an emulator available for the GPIO (General purposes IO) available as a python library, so you'll be able to do pretty much everything your daughter can do on a physical PI.

If you do decide to get a physical PI, then the 3B+ is what you should go for. Simply not worth the few pounds saving for a lower spec version.
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: tonycollinet on 29 May, 2019, 07:01:53 am
PS - if you do get a physical pi:

It is possible to install remote desktop server, and then remote into it from your normal PC, and run it "headless". This saves setting up a separate monitor keyboard, and means you can work comfortably where you normally do.

(you can do the same with VNC - I just find RDC to be easier to use)
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: CAMRAMan on 29 May, 2019, 07:08:25 pm
Thanks Tony. I'm still deciding... (prevaricating!)
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: Kim on 29 May, 2019, 07:18:13 pm
It is possible to install remote desktop server, and then remote into it from your normal PC, and run it "headless". This saves setting up a separate monitor keyboard, and means you can work comfortably where you normally do.

(you can do the same with VNC - I just find RDC to be easier to use)

You don't really need any of that, SSH (with X-forwarding if you need graphics) works out of the box.
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: Greenbank on 29 May, 2019, 10:34:29 pm
SSH (with X-forwarding if you need graphics) works out of the box.

although X-forwarding doesn't do much if you're connecting from Windows using something like PuTTY.
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: Kim on 29 May, 2019, 10:40:44 pm
SSH (with X-forwarding if you need graphics) works out of the box.

although X-forwarding doesn't do much if you're connecting from Windows using something like PuTTY.

Well no, but that's your own fault.   :P

It's been a while since I ran an X server on Windows...
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: Greenbank on 29 May, 2019, 10:45:03 pm
It's been a while since I ran an X server on Windows...

The memories of eXceed for Windows. Ugh.
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: Gattopardo on 29 May, 2019, 10:45:32 pm
SSH (with X-forwarding if you need graphics) works out of the box.

although X-forwarding doesn't do much if you're connecting from Windows using something like PuTTY.

Have used PuTTY in the past.
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: Kim on 29 May, 2019, 10:51:27 pm
It's been a while since I ran an X server on Windows...

The memories of eXceed for Windows. Ugh.

Ugh indeed, but like PuTTY[1] it made Windows useful.


[1] The clue's in the name.
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: Gattopardo on 30 May, 2019, 12:25:05 pm
It's been a while since I ran an X server on Windows...

The memories of eXceed for Windows. Ugh.

Ugh indeed, but like PuTTY[1] it made Windows useful.


[1] The clue's in the name.

Useful of useable ;)
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: tonycollinet on 31 May, 2019, 06:47:53 am
It is possible to install remote desktop server, and then remote into it from your normal PC, and run it "headless". This saves setting up a separate monitor keyboard, and means you can work comfortably where you normally do.

(you can do the same with VNC - I just find RDC to be easier to use)

You don't really need any of that, SSH (with X-forwarding if you need graphics) works out of the box.

Tried that - couldn't find the trick to forward the full desktop. I could start individual programs with a GUI, but not the desktop. The individual apps approach doesn't feel comfortable. Don't ask me to explain why :-)
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: tonycollinet on 31 May, 2019, 06:56:23 am
On a related note.

In the last days, I have created my first python programs. I've hooked up an arduino clone to the PI, written my first arduino sketch, and got serial comms working between arduino and PI.

I have also bought one of the most amazing (to me) bits of kit I've ever bought. A small (matchbox sized) £12 box that plugs into a USB port, and provides (on my Mac) all the functionality of an 8 channel logic analyzer. It uses sigrok as a front end, and I've used it to look as the serial comms. sigrok can even decode the signals to display the data being transmitted (and for many different protocols/interfaces) making it a full protocol analyser as well as a logic analyser.

Back in the days when I was an engineer - before I sold my soul to the demons of project management - kit with that sort of functionality would have cost 10s of thousands of pounds. I am staggered by what it can do for the money.

PS @CAMRAman - sorry for the thread hijack
Title: Re: Which Raspberry Pi (kit) Do I Need?
Post by: Kim on 31 May, 2019, 11:59:00 am
It is possible to install remote desktop server, and then remote into it from your normal PC, and run it "headless". This saves setting up a separate monitor keyboard, and means you can work comfortably where you normally do.

(you can do the same with VNC - I just find RDC to be easier to use)

You don't really need any of that, SSH (with X-forwarding if you need graphics) works out of the box.

Tried that - couldn't find the trick to forward the full desktop. I could start individual programs with a GUI, but not the desktop. The individual apps approach doesn't feel comfortable. Don't ask me to explain why :-)

Fair enough.  I mostly live in the terminal for programmingy / system adminsitrationy things, so a full desktop environment is just a confusion layer.  Making a full desktop login appear over X, while certainly possible, is stuff I forgot how to do in the late 90s.


I have also bought one of the most amazing (to me) bits of kit I've ever bought. A small (matchbox sized) £12 box that plugs into a USB port, and provides (on my Mac) all the functionality of an 8 channel logic analyzer. It uses sigrok as a front end, and I've used it to look as the serial comms. sigrok can even decode the signals to display the data being transmitted (and for many different protocols/interfaces) making it a full protocol analyser as well as a logic analyser.

Sometimes living in The Future *is* what it's cracked up to be.  See also: Digital oscilloscopes.