Author Topic: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster  (Read 48831 times)

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #200 on: 21 June, 2016, 09:32:20 pm »
Sigh.
Do you wanna job as a project manager?
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #201 on: 22 June, 2016, 06:06:25 am »
Thanks for the offer, but my current client won't let me leave site and seeings she feeds me , although I do the cooking, and gives me a squeeze now and then I think it's a good job to be on.

Where do you see the water coming in exactly and when it did come in, was it both windy and raining or just that heavy, straight down, downpour stuff ?

Generally it doesn't travel that far sideways or up ways on a roof, as the little gullies between the slates help it keep a straight run down, unless your roof looks like The Atlantic on a blowy day. But yours does look pretty flat across it, until you get to about 500mm from the gable wall.

If you don't have felt, and I can't remember if you do, the water will fall onto the sarking boards and drip straight through the gaps. If the water is only running down the gable wall and nowhere else it's likely a chimney/coping issue like what Canardly said.

But if you didn't pay for any lead soakers or other flashing in your itemised invoice, you don't have any.

The original builder of the house would have saved a packet by not installing lead on all the roofs he built. If a builder wants to make a saving without the client finding out then the roof is where to do it, even though it's the most important part of the house as weather proofing goes.

I'm just wondering if the hat thing on the chimney has been left loose for the fire installers to fix for some reason.

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #202 on: 22 June, 2016, 06:28:37 am »
On closer inspection of the photo from the Velux..........

The telly cable shouldn't go through the ridge of roof where it does, but should lay a bit on the roof then go upwards under the flashing or a slate so it doesn't give water something to flow along.

There's something at the bottom of the stack which might be some lead or be an odd slate to cover the gap between the slates in the course below, but I can't be sure what it is really.

And if the lead on the ridge just buts against the stack without being flashed properly, that's a weak point too. And that corner is west facing by the looks of it, so its getting driving rain and a lot of weather. It needs a proper roofer to do it as it should be done, otherwise you'll be fixing it forever because the lime fillet will crack up. That's what it does and it shouldn't be used alone to weatherproof a roof or chimney at the junction between slates and masonry.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #203 on: 22 June, 2016, 05:45:31 pm »
Stove man (returning tomorrow for more fitting) said they weren't finished cutting the liner. Well, whatever, as long as it gets done.
So, I've been out and up with a proper camera and got interesting results....
The telly cable doesn't go through the ridge,  it just sits on top and then drapes down the front. It doesn't enter the building through the roof at all.
The area I can *see* water coming in pretty well matches up with the stack from the ridge and left to where it ends. That's not to say that there's not more water coming in downhill of the stack, but that's all I can see in the loft. When the builders were here they felt a wet bit on the rafter of the other face of the roof but it wasn't visibly running down the wall there.
It wasn't particularly windy when the rain was coming in. It was probably coming in that general direction but not at a severe angle.
The bit at the bottom of the stack does look like lead, took a better photo.

Anyway... I've found something! You might not be very excited and it's probably not IT but it's something.....

Photos to follow when Pingu's stuck them on Flickr.... can you bear the suspense?
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #204 on: 22 June, 2016, 06:12:48 pm »
Right, have a good zoom into this one, bottom of skew, near the ridge.
IMG_4387 by The Pingus, on Flickr

Guessing this is lead
IMG_4378 by The Pingus, on Flickr

There are more, in the same album.

Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #205 on: 23 June, 2016, 07:44:32 am »
I guess this.....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/27188455384/in/photostream/


Is just below this....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/27189727983/in/photostream/

There should have been soakers under the slates at the parapet (the little wall that sticks up with the coping on top), especially where the slates have been cut badly. Lead soakers lay under each slate and cover the gap between the half slates on the course below or above, they are dressed up the parapet and stop just below the coping, which should form an overhang so the water drips off and onto the slate and soaker.

There should also be soakers running up the side of the stack as well. To make a drip, a stainless steel form is used which is fastened over the top edge of the soakers and filled with a fillet of lime (NHL5) or S&C. This avoids having to chase into the stonework and insert a flashing, but isn't as durable.

I'm not sure how to get the images to show, but I'm sure you'll see them. Generally the Victorian roofs that I have worked on have all been done well with the correct leadwork. When a house is re-roofed the lead might have been removed by the new roofer for <cough!> economic or financial reasons. </cough!>

If you just put a fillet of lime along a roof it leaves a small gap at the end of every slate, this will give water somewhere to get in, especially west facing and high up.......You do have wind and rain combo from the west where you are, don't you? The lime will also crack when it dries out, because it doesn't do expansion and contraction very well. Your builder might say that it is self healing due to the free lime available in the mortar, but that only applies to the small joints in brickwork, not a fillet on a roof.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #206 on: 23 June, 2016, 10:02:17 am »
I guess this.....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/27188455384/in/photostream/


Is just below this....

https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/27189727983/in/photostream/

No. The leak is just below this
https://flic.kr/p/HqCHxE

I can't see what's below the copes in your second link because that's where it disappears into the kitchen wall.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #207 on: 23 June, 2016, 10:59:23 am »
I've had a look here and the other pages on the website:
http://leadsheet.co.uk/step-and-cover-flashings-and-secret-gutters

are you thinking individual soakers, step, secret gutter...?

I've emailed the builder with the picture of the crack and said I want to try something different, lets see what they say.

Also, we get wind and rain from every direction! Nothing is safe when it's blowing a right hoolie.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #208 on: 23 June, 2016, 11:09:07 am »
https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_pingus/27766381646/in/photostream/

My comment about lead soakers applies here too, there's nothing stoping the rain from entering the joint at the edge of the slates and parapet wall. Plus, that's really just half a flashing and should look like this, but with the fillet former or chased in like I said before......



http://www.calderlead.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Calder-Guide-to-Good-Leadwork.pdf

See page 15, lead soakers. A secret gutter would be too complicated to fit and keep clean of debris.

Pingu

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Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #209 on: 29 June, 2016, 10:50:09 am »
Got home from work yesterday and the living room was boiling and there were glowing embers in the fire.

Jaded

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Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #210 on: 29 June, 2016, 11:08:31 am »
Got home from work yesterday and the living room was boiling and there were glowing embers in the fire.

Summer in Aberdeen, what's not to like!  :thumbsup:
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #211 on: 29 June, 2016, 11:54:25 am »
Seems we now have an inglenook some one metre across and 1.1 high. Can't wait to see it.

PH
Bees do nothing invariably.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #212 on: 04 July, 2016, 10:21:02 pm »
Edited to replace photo
Not very pretty ATM but hopefully once the plasterer has been...

IMG_4461 by The Pingus, on Flickr
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Wombat

  • Is it supposed to hurt this much?
Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #213 on: 05 July, 2016, 08:10:09 am »
Your comment of "not very pretty ATM" was quite amusing as currently it does actually look a bit like an ATM  ;D

Hopefully it'll soon look like it belongs there.
Wombat

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #214 on: 05 July, 2016, 05:06:33 pm »
Haha yes. One day, there'll be a picture of it lit, and all plastered and painted and a strategically posed cat belly and it will warm the cockles of your heart.
But not yet. Don't expect to see my plasterer much before the end of the month....
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #215 on: 05 July, 2016, 10:11:03 pm »
Is that a beslippered left foot reflected in the door glass?

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #216 on: 05 July, 2016, 10:17:00 pm »
<looks, zooms>
No, it's my elbow. Underneath that is my butt :)
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #217 on: 06 July, 2016, 06:39:39 pm »
It looks like a building site, when's it finished ?

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #218 on: 06 July, 2016, 06:50:00 pm »
Plasterer not free until the week of the 18th at which point he has a job to do in Portsoy and will probably swap between here & there.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #219 on: 06 July, 2016, 06:50:39 pm »
Also waiting for some people to come see me about lead.
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #220 on: 06 July, 2016, 07:12:48 pm »
<looks, zooms>
No, it's my elbow. Underneath that is my butt :)

Ah yes.  I see now.   

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #221 on: 06 July, 2016, 11:49:03 pm »
Also waiting for some people to come see me about lead.
I have some lead. It is marvellous stuff. I've got about 150kg, some new, but mostly fractured and scabby.  ;D
It is simpler than it looks.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #222 on: 07 July, 2016, 06:43:26 pm »
Rang up the decorating shop about paint today.
Earthborn want £83 for 2.5L of their eggshell. I nearly fell off my seat!
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.

Aunt Maud

  • Le Flâneur.
Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #223 on: 07 July, 2016, 08:41:53 pm »
Casein + lime + water + pigment = it makes sense.

Mrs Pingu

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Re: Solid wall buildings part elebenty - alternatives to lath and plaster
« Reply #224 on: 07 July, 2016, 08:43:24 pm »
Not for woodwork it doesn't ;)
Do not clench. It only makes it worse.