Bryan Chapman 2012

[mattc]

I'm pretty sure it was Simon who first gave 20kph as his 'typical moving average' on long rides, and that it generally gives enough time for eating+sleeping. I may have misremembered this (it was a long time ago), but it's stuck in my mind, and seems to be a pretty good guide, even on rides beyond 400k.

(To be honest I rarely check my moving average, but other people do, so I can use them as sanity checks!)

People do manage on lower speeds but they're hyper-efficient at stops and/or don't need sleep - neither of which applies to me!

[simonp]

My moving average on the BCM last couple of times has been 23-24kph. But I finish with ~5h in hand on that with 10h off the bike. 22 on PBP. 22 on the Mille Cymru.

My target is 20kph overall til sleep stop. This is much faster than you really need to be.

[iddu]

Redacted list

They'll be reet.

...but confidence has been dented by being Lanterne Rouge on their latest 200 (in a very small field).. and found the Arrivée being packed away some two hours before the time limit !

With no definite confirmation (to finish crew) that all riders were in/abandoned? That would...get a RANT at Org.  Post-control legging it is sub-optimal, but pre-closing time w/o definitive knowledge...

[bikey-mikey]

My moving average on the BCM last couple of times has been 23-24kph. But I finish with ~5h in hand on that with 10h off the bike. 22 on PBP. 22 on the Mille Cymru.

My target is 20kph overall til sleep stop. This is much faster than you really need to be.

I tend towards moving averages c. 23, and overall (inc stops) of c. 20, the latter of which I most likely subconsciously self regulate towards...

You can go faster / stop for less time, BUT this affects:  a) your digestion  b) your recovery  and c) your circle of friends !! 

[mattc]

...but confidence has been dented by being Lanterne Rouge on their latest 200 (in a very small field).. and found the Arrivée being packed away some two hours before the time limit !

With no definite confirmation (to finish crew) that all riders were in/abandoned? That would...get a RANT at Org.  Post-control legging it is sub-optimal, but pre-closing time w/o definitive knowledge...

More info required. With 2 hours and 1 rider to go, it makes sense to start packing up stuff that Lanterne Rouge won't need (e.g. 10 tables and 20 chairs).

[Redlight]

I got round in 38.5 hours last year with just over half an hour's sleep at the YHA, but I did lose a lot of time at one of the controls when my food order went astray.  I applied the 20kph approach to the LEL a couple of years ago and it worked out fine; there was never a point at which I felt "behind" and in the latter stages I allowed myself more time at the controls than I had anticipated.

[Ray 6701]

As its a brm event I take it you have a time limit of 40hrs 

[simonp]

As its a brm event I take it you have a time limit of 40hrs 

Ah yes, my mistake. So a rider averaging 20kph only gets 9h off the bike if right on the limit, instead of 10h.

[Redlight]

..and even less time on the BCM as it's 619km, so another hour lost

[simonp]

..and even less time on the BCM as it's 619km, so another hour lost

That's where 9h vs 10h comes from (actually it's about 1h15 lost for 19km over-distance).

Was there a rule passed that fall-back to BR validation was no longer allowed for BRM rides?

[L CC]

..and even less time on the BCM as it's 619km, so another hour lost

That's where 9h vs 10h comes from (actually it's about 1h15 lost for 19km over-distance).

Was there a rule passed that fall-back to BR validation was no longer allowed for BRM rides?

Yes. You enter a BRM or a BR ride, not both/either.

[Manotea]

..and even less time on the BCM as it's 619km, so another hour lost

That's where 9h vs 10h comes from (actually it's about 1h15 lost for 19km over-distance).

Was there a rule passed that fall-back to BR validation was no longer allowed for BRM rides?

Yes. You enter a BRM or a BR ride, not both/either.

Whilst I understand the logic, this change to UK regulations struck me as small-minded and elitist.

Not that I ascribe these attributes to BOAB or that this has got 'owt to do with the BCM other than if I was riding this year I would request a BR Brevet. The fact is the BCM, one of top events in the AUK calendar,  is on the edge of my ability. My first finish was 40hrs+ but luckily that was a BR (non-PBP year), so that was OK. My last outing in 2011 was a PBP year and I got round in 39.5hrs (eat your heart out, Redlight!).

[mattc]

My last outing in 2011 was a PBP year and I got round in 39.5hrs (eat your heart out, Redlight!).

It's official - the Manoteameter shows the BCM to be 25mins harder than PBP!

Incidentally, I don't think it's helpful to worry about the 'extra' 19km (and I say that as a 39h+ finisher). At 20kph average it makes 0.6kph difference. Just take it a stage at a time.

[Polepole]

Fast enough for the BCM ?

6 x 200s this year in a fairly consistent 11 hours elapsed...

Rider has an entry already in for BCM but confidence has been dented by being Lanterne Rouge on their latest 200 (in a very small field).. and found the Arrivée being packed away some two hours before the time limit !

I've entered so your friend has no worries about being Lanterne Rouge on this one. That will be my spot as long as my bike is fixed by then. I don't expect to get round in time given that it is BRM and 19K over the 600. I'll be ecstatic just to get round the ride. I suspect this ride will be well outside my ability but I'd still like to give it a go. Blacksheep- you have been warned.  I only average 20kph moving, irrespective of distance, over the usual sort of audax terrain. On a hilly ride it will probably be a great deal less unless the slow ascents and fast descents cancel each other out. I will probably take 2 hours sleep irrespective of how I'm doing time wise as I think I would be unsafe on the bike with less and in any case would not enjoy the ride without it and that is, for me, what it's all about. Tell your friend not to stress over the time or speed but to just chill and have a good time. I'm always towards the back of the field. I used to stress over keeping the organiser hanging around waiting for me but don't any longer. They know there is a chance they may have to be there til the bitter end. It's part of being an organiser. I usually take 12 hours upwards for a 200, but spend longer than an hour off the bike.

[BlackSheep]

EDIT 10/05/2012 @ 09:46, There were a few points raised, in the spirit of debate - I have removed the quotee's ID


Whilst I understand the logic, this change to UK regulations struck me as small-minded and elitist.

I'm affraid that's democracy for you, about 6% of the AUK membership voted for it.

The fact is the BCM, one of top events in the AUK calendar,

How times have changed, in june 2003, this event was all but dead on it's feet, any nobody in AUK wanted anything to do with it. The previous organiser couldn't find anyone to pass it to, I only stepped-in as a stop-gap until someone else came along.

................................. if I was riding this year I would request a BR Brevet.

Just out of interest. Does anyone have any idea of how many cyclists over the past decade have claimed the BR when the event was a BRM event?

[Redlight]

Incidentally, I don't think it's helpful to worry about the 'extra' 19km (and I say that as a 39h+ finisher). At 20kph average it makes 0.6kph difference. Just take it a stage at a time.

Exactly, and as Polepole's subsequent comment articulates perfectly, the point is to find the ride an enjoyable / satisfying / challenging (you select) ride. If I hadn't been riding it as a PBP qualifier last year I wouldn't have even thought about the time - and as it was, I wasn't that bothered as there was still plenty of time to ride another 600). The only slight catch with the BCM is that if you use the (very welcome) bag drop option, you do have to get back to the finish to collect your bag of smelly and slightly damp clothes.  I've never asked Blacksheep what he does with bags whose riders come in after the cut-off. 

This year, I will be happy to see Harlech in daylight and go easy for the rest of the ride!

[simonp]

"If you can do the Brevet Cymru you can do the Bryan Chapman".

[bikey-mikey]

"If you can do the Brevet Cymru you can do the Bryan Chapman".

You mean "if you can do the BC you can do the BC" 

[mattc]

... which is why wise men (like Blacksheep) tend to refer to the latter as the BCM (Bryan Chapman Memorial) or BC6, whenever confusion may arise.

[aidan.f]

anyone traveeling  from N England (or  on the way) for this event? I'm looking  at  possible transport arrangements...

[GrandMaster Flash]

The HardBoiled used to have a Secret control at exactly 300K as, apparantly , someone passed 300K within BRM time but was out of time at the Arrivee (~310K).  So long as you got to the secret within time the organiser submitted your card for validation.  I have no idea how 'legal' this was but it clearly worked for some people - or the Organiser was making a point.  It could well be the latter

[Ray 6701]

Just ordered a new tub of chamois creme & a waterproof jacket 

[BlackSheep]

The HardBoiled used to have a Secret control at exactly 300K as, apparantly , someone passed 300K within BRM time but was out of time at the Arrivee (~310K).  So long as you got to the secret within time the organiser submitted your card for validation.  I have no idea how 'legal' this was but it clearly worked for some people - or the Organiser was making a point.  It could well be the latter

Probably not very "legal" , and apparently the same was true of the BCM - although this pre-dates my event running and the previous organiser.

I've been told by numerous cyclists that someone intercepted cyclists in the Wye Valley, stating that "Their ride was now over". A bit worrying for numerous reasons:-
1) I'm not all that convinced that the BCM actually went down the Wye Valley in the year in question. But probably went south from Hereford, and through the Forest of Dean (now there's a killer finish).
2) If it had, there would have been many pleasure cyclists 'ambushed', and given the news that "Their ride was now over" is a bit of a shock - a bit to 'Cosa Nostra' for most tastes.
3) There's not a lot of room on the road in question, to stop cyclists and start faffing-about, the aleged finish would have been between Redbrook and Bigsweir bridge.

[SR Steve]

In 1987 the Trans Wales 600 was officially 623km and the organiser applied a fiddle factor of 600/623 to the overall times, allowing some riders to qualify for the PBP who would not otherwise have done so. My girlfriend at the time qualified in this way after failing on the Seething 600 and Windsor Chester Windsor 600. Her suffering during the Trans Wales 600 put her off entering the PBP or any further 600s for that matter!

[Feanor]

Just browsing through some random GPX file off the Electric Internet, I see there is a couple of K to be chopped in Monmouth, by ignoring the route-sheet's dog-leg up to the roundabout and back down the A40.  Just carry directly on through the town to the bridge.

You'll need to dismount for 100m or so, and become a pedestrian due to a one-way street at Wyebridge Street.