Author Topic: Why can't people wait?  (Read 12893 times)

Jacomus

  • My favourite gender neutral pronoun is comrade
Why can't people wait?
« on: 18 February, 2009, 12:03:53 pm »
Just nipped out to get some luncheon, and saw one of those all too common examples of cyclists riding with absolutely no conception of danger.

A left turning artic pulled slowly away from the lights, swung right and began his left turn. Nice and slow. First one, then a second cyclist nipped up his inside and he stopped hard making the whole truck wobble in a rather disconcerting way. He also stalled.

So with a truck stranded half way through a tight left turn a steady stream of cyclists and scooteristas start going up his inside, making it impossible for him to continue his turn. Much beeping had begun now, and to make things worse, the lights changed and he was blocking traffic that wanted to cross the junction from the left.

After a lot of beeping, and some shouting from irate drivers (who had by now pulled forwards, blocking him from completing his turn) they hitched up onto the pavement to clear enough room to let him finish turning, after a couple of rlj cyclists had nipped up his inside for good measure.


I just wouldn't put myself up the inside of a truck, especially at that point, and especially if it was clearly turning left. The driver was on the ball, and just rather unlucky, but I was amazed (I shouldn't be by now, but hey ho) at the sheep like behaviour of the cyclists who couldn't wait for a few seconds.

The crowning glory, was the total ignoral of one of those yellow 'don't cycle up the left' stickers on the back of the truck.

I've tried explaining the danger to cyclists before, stopped at TLs, if I've just watched them do something moronic and been met with hostility or occasionally a glimmer of understanding.

I feel the need to start repeating "something must be done!" as I don't really know how to get the message across. Getting truck drivers in on the whole not killing cyclists on their left is gathering momentum slowly, but still happens way too much, but somehow, cyclists must be made to realise that putting themselves there is really bad too.
"The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity." Amelia Earhart

ed_o_brain

Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #1 on: 18 February, 2009, 12:08:30 pm »
I agree.

While it's not so bad here in sunny Manchester the way in which some two wheelers (powered and self-propelled) behaved in London town on my last recent visit left me utterly speechless.

I was left aghast when a motorbike courier on a low powered machine overtook me and turned left... there was nothing behind me and a moving three meter gap between the front of my bike and the car in front.

Lots of RLJing too... doesn't seem to matter what the mode of transport is. EVERYONE does it.

[/rant mode]

Something does need to be done.

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #2 on: 18 February, 2009, 12:15:07 pm »
Dreadful.
Getting there...

Jezza

Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #3 on: 18 February, 2009, 12:29:49 pm »
During my motorbike test in Norwich I was on a 500cc E5 (learner special) at a red light. I hung well back from the truck in front - at least a car length, if not more - and observed the truck had his left indicator on. Lights changed, he began to move, and at that moment a lycra-clad roadie came up on my right, pulled in front of me just as I was about to move off, then swerved into the left lane to undertake the truck, which then, as I anticipated, began to turn left. Mr Lycra saw he was about to be squished by his own stupidity, and proceeded to shout and yell at the truck driver, who abruptly braked. Lycra sped off, waving his fist.

How dumb do you have to be to firstly cut up a (bigger, heavier, faster) motorbike that is just about to move off, then undertake a left-turning truck, all in less than 5 seconds? 

Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #4 on: 18 February, 2009, 12:32:39 pm »
You don't have to be clever to ride a bike.

Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #5 on: 18 February, 2009, 12:33:43 pm »
Why can't people wait?

Because they're impatient and think their time is worth more than everyone/anyone else's. People push time limits as close as they can and one little upset will cause them to be late (and irate) so they take ever increasing risks to avoid this. It's the same reason people ignore the rules about yellow hatched box junctions; it's quite simple yet people regularly fuck it up by thinking they're more important than everyone else.

I'm rarely impatient because I give myself enough time to get somewhere. I'm usually early to everything (except work). I'm not on the limit of being on time and therefore it's not going to make me late if I let someone cross the road as I should, or if I stop at all of the red lights, etc.

In the case of being overtaking it's because that once they've overtaken you don't exist any more, so there's no problem overtaking someone and then cutting in straight away to turn left.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Jezza

Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #6 on: 18 February, 2009, 12:34:44 pm »
You don't have to be clever to ride a bike.

Depends if you want to live, I suppose.

LEL

Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #7 on: 18 February, 2009, 12:38:55 pm »
I just point out that  something like 67% of all cyclists deaths occur at TL/junctions when a lorry is turning left.   
And that theres plenty of room at the cemetery.

This does tend to stop people.

(Can't remember where the statistics came from and is now out of date)

Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #8 on: 18 February, 2009, 12:41:16 pm »
You don't have to be clever to ride a bike.

Depends if you want to live, I suppose.

What's missing is an understanding of techniques for staying alive. Until something goes wrong they won't understand they're doing anything dangerous.

Jacomus

  • My favourite gender neutral pronoun is comrade
Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #9 on: 18 February, 2009, 12:45:36 pm »
The thing that frustrates me though, is that it seems to be people just simply not being aware of the danger rather than deliberate risk taking.

I found a very short warning to cyclists on tfl's website1:

Quote
Things to watch out for

    * Black cabs swerving to the kerb to pick up/drop off passengers
    * Pedestrians stepping out into the road without looking (and most of us do it on occasion)
    * Passengers hopping on or off buses without looking
    * Vehicles turning left across you - even more serious if it is a bus or truck
    * Car doors being opened into your path
    * Vehicle creepage at junctions
    * Delivery vehicles parked in cycle lanes
    * Drivers failing to indicate properly
    * Vehicles doing impromptu u-turns


Heavy Goods Vehicles

More than half of all cyclist deaths in London are caused by collisions with Heavy Goods Vehicles (HGVs). Risk can be minimised if lorry drivers and cyclists alike are aware of each other and behave responsibly.
You can help by:

    * Taking particular care along the left side of HGVs and near the front wheel
    * Moving to a position well in front of the cab to ensure you are seen
    * Taking part in training on offer via local councils
    * Staying in front of the cab or staying behind vehicles at junctions
    * Improving your visibility with reflective clothing and lights

There is also a fairly comprehensive bit for truck drivers on their website too2.


I wonder if truck and bus drivers should be encouraged to pull in as close to the kerb as they can, to physically block cyclists from nipping up the inside?


________________________________________
1) Staying safe | Transport for London
2) HGVs and road safety | Transport for London
"The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity." Amelia Earhart

woollypigs

  • Mr Peli
    • woollypigs
Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #10 on: 18 February, 2009, 12:49:48 pm »
I get it when I teach kids to ride a bike. "What do you need to do when the light is red?" always get a blank face and when I tell them it means stop, I get as a reply "but not for bikes". The only reason they say that is because of what they see.
Current mood: AARRRGGGGHHHHH !!! #bollockstobrexit

Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #11 on: 18 February, 2009, 12:53:37 pm »
I wonder if truck and bus drivers should be encouraged to pull in as close to the kerb as they can, to physically block cyclists from nipping up the inside?

They can't the rear wheels will cut the corner onto the pavement if they do, hense the driver of the truck in the incident you saw swinging right in preparation to turn left.

Matthew

fuzzy

Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #12 on: 18 February, 2009, 01:02:58 pm »
What is required is a publicity campaign utilising National media, like the drink drive and watch out for motorbike ads. A few graphic 30 second ads showing PTW's and HPV's being crushed under the wheels of left turning goods vehicles and busses would probably make folk think. It might not stop them though :-\

Jacomus

  • My favourite gender neutral pronoun is comrade
Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #13 on: 18 February, 2009, 01:09:57 pm »
I wonder if truck and bus drivers should be encouraged to pull in as close to the kerb as they can, to physically block cyclists from nipping up the inside?

They can't the rear wheels will cut the corner onto the pavement if they do, hense the driver of the truck in the incident you saw swinging right in preparation to turn left.

Matthew

Pulling into the kerb wouldn't stop them swinging out to make the turn though, would it? Does anyone drive an artic or similar on here?
"The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity." Amelia Earhart

clarion

  • Tyke
Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #14 on: 18 February, 2009, 01:14:03 pm »
Rich Forrest is your man for that, and very aware of all the issues.  There may be others.
Getting there...

Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #15 on: 18 February, 2009, 01:14:54 pm »
A cycling kid was killed by a left turning artic on my route to school as a kid. I didn't see the accident but saw the blood all over the road and the attempts to wash it away. The artic wheel went straight over the kids head.I have no idea if it was the artic or the kids fault (it was 30 yeasr ago) but it cured me of going up the inside of vehicles at traffic lights forever.
I think you'll find it's a bit more complicated than that.

Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #16 on: 18 February, 2009, 01:18:43 pm »
Pulling into the kerb wouldn't stop them swinging out to make the turn though, would it? Does anyone drive an artic or similar on here?

As soon as they did swing out any waiting cyclists would probably zoom up the inside, ignoring the indicators.
"Yes please" said Squirrel "biscuits are our favourite things."

Jacomus

  • My favourite gender neutral pronoun is comrade
Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #17 on: 18 February, 2009, 01:32:32 pm »
Pulling into the kerb wouldn't stop them swinging out to make the turn though, would it? Does anyone drive an artic or similar on here?

As soon as they did swing out any waiting cyclists would probably zoom up the inside, ignoring the indicators.

*sigh* I guess you are right, or they would take to the pavement.
"The most difficult thing is the decision to act, the rest is merely tenacity." Amelia Earhart

Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #18 on: 18 February, 2009, 01:37:47 pm »
There are some srsly brain dead cyclists out there!!!  How's this undertake attempt captured on video?

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/pD8DBO-s5rM&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/pD8DBO-s5rM&rel=1</a>

I dare say the lorry driver didn't even look.
Your Royal Charles are belong to us.

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #19 on: 18 February, 2009, 01:38:03 pm »
What is required is a publicity campaign utilising National media, like the drink drive and watch out for motorbike ads. A few graphic 30 second ads showing PTW's and HPV's being crushed under the wheels of left turning goods vehicles and busses would probably make folk think. It might not stop them though :-\

There was one, probably 30 years ago now but I remember it. It might not have been aimed at cyclists, but I definitely remember a tv campaign about not undertaking left-turning lorries because you'll get mashed up. I think it was targeted at car drivers, I remember the ad was a car attempting to nip up the left of a lorry while it was preparing to turn and being turned into jam. It was the same sort of thing as the "clunk click every trip" and "think once think twice think bike" ads. And that scary one with the scary old man with rheumy eyes trying to cross the road, with the commentary telling us how he couldn't hear or see the traffic very well so we should all slow down around old people. I remember that one being quite upsetting.


We need a Charley Says ad to warn people. A freaky ginger cat telling us not to undertake lorries will do the trick.
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


ed_o_brain

Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #20 on: 18 February, 2009, 01:52:39 pm »
Maybe a facebook group would be a good start?

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #21 on: 18 February, 2009, 01:56:46 pm »
Maybe a facebook group would be a good start?

If you start one, I'll join it tonight.
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.


ed_o_brain

Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #22 on: 18 February, 2009, 02:00:45 pm »
Maybe a facebook group would be a good start?

If you start one, I'll join it tonight.

okay....


... I'll try and get some pictures are art work to tart it up at the weekend!

ed_o_brain

Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #23 on: 18 February, 2009, 02:06:35 pm »
Maybe a facebook group would be a good start?

If you start one, I'll join it tonight.

okay....


... I'll try and get some pictures are art work to tart it up at the weekend!

Struggling to think of a name.
The best one I've come up with so far is "TWWW"

... Two Wheelers Who Wait.

I'll take any other suggestions.

Eccentrica Gallumbits

  • Rock 'n' roll and brew, rock 'n' roll and brew...
Re: Why can't people wait?
« Reply #24 on: 18 February, 2009, 02:08:19 pm »
Now I'm having visions of Calvin's be careful or be roadkill poster...
My feminist marxist dialectic brings all the boys to the yard.