Author Topic: Why can't people learn to use the road courteously? (Read 7278 times)

ihatebikes · « **on:** 19 May, 2012, 06:45:33 pm »

Hi, I am a car driver who enjoys a bit of cycling from time to time.

When driving, the worst road users are taxis etc. right?

Wrong, cyclists are by far the most inconsiderate road users I ever encounter.

I slow down and wait behind cyclists on country roads - where there's a blind bend or not safe to pass etc. But I never find the same courtesy extended back. All I ever see is cyclists riding two or three abreast and unwilling to pull into single file. If riding alone, they usually cycle in the middle of the lane, and unwilling to pull over. (on roads where you cannot safely pass them).

If a cyclist is inconsederate to me on the road now, if behind them I will sound the horn, keep revving, drive close behind etc. If they're cycling towards me I just speed up and then they have to get out of the way.

I wish I didn't have to behave like this, but they are so fucking rude, hold up real traffic, and really piss people off. Most car drivers try to be considerate to cyclsts, why can't cyclists behave the same?

It's not just the sunday bike riders either, its just as much the lycra brigade that behave like twats.

How do you as bike riders expect drivers to be courteous and mindful of your presence on the road when all you do is piss us off? It makes me treat you with contempt, and it shouldn't be like that.

jogler · « **Reply #1 on:** 19 May, 2012, 06:52:05 pm »

Quote from: ihatebikes on 19 May, 2012, 06:45:33 pm

and it shouldn't be like that.

I agree

Jurek · « **Reply #2 on:** 19 May, 2012, 06:53:41 pm »

Here we go....

I reckon this one'll run for a while....

urban_biker · « **Reply #3 on:** 19 May, 2012, 06:58:43 pm »

And sometimes I'm traffic - bike or car.

ihatebikes · « **Reply #4 on:** 19 May, 2012, 07:00:21 pm »

Try using the road in a sensible way instead of holding people up and being generally ingnorant and rude... Not difficult is it?

plum · « **Reply #5 on:** 19 May, 2012, 07:02:01 pm »

I don't pay any road tax so I don't have to care what he thinks. And anyway he never gets held up behind me, he's always stuck way back in the traffic because he has to stop at red lights, what a mug.

Jurek · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 May, 2012, 07:04:09 pm »

OK, I'll take the bait.

Quote from: ihatebikes on 19 May, 2012, 07:00:21 pm

Try using the road in a sensible way instead of holding people up and being generally ingnorant and rude... Not difficult is it?

@ ihatebikes. Hello, and welcome to the forum.
Today I rode from SE something in London to Mortimer Street (W1) and back.
The thing that held me up the most were people driving cars.
I didn't think they were ignorant or rude - just not very savvy perhaps, as to what is the quickest way of getting around.

welshwheels · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 May, 2012, 07:07:16 pm »

TOP GEAR FORUM IS THAT WAY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GTFO

Tewdric · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 May, 2012, 07:10:48 pm »

Nice troll

ihatebikes · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 May, 2012, 07:12:01 pm »

Quote from: Jurek on 19 May, 2012, 07:04:09 pm

OK, I'll take the bait.

Quote from: ihatebikes on 19 May, 2012, 07:00:21 pm
Try using the road in a sensible way instead of holding people up and being generally ingnorant and rude... Not difficult is it?

ihatebikes, Hello, and welcome to the forum.
Today I rode from SE something in London to Mortimer Street (W1) and back.
The thing that held me up the most were people driving cars.

Thank you for the warm welcome

I know I sound like I'm being a bastard, but don't know how else to communicate how frustrated I get with some of the cyclists round here.

Sorry to all who are decent cyclists, just didn't know where else to try and communicate with cyclists collectively.

Beats shouting "you C*&T" out of the window at the bad ones I guess

ihatebikes · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 May, 2012, 07:13:10 pm »

Quote from: welshwheels on 19 May, 2012, 07:07:16 pm

TOP GEAR FORUM IS THAT WAY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GTFO

ignorant, just like who I'm talking about.

Then you have the cheek to whinge when you get knocked off your bike!

LOL

welshwheels · « **Reply #11 on:** 19 May, 2012, 07:14:52 pm »

Quote from: ihatebikes on 19 May, 2012, 07:13:10 pm

Quote from: welshwheels on 19 May, 2012, 07:07:16 pm
TOP GEAR FORUM IS THAT WAY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GTFO

ignorant, just like who I'm talking about.

Then you have the cheek to whinge when you get knocked off your bike!

LOL

POT KETTLE ?

Northstar · « **Reply #12 on:** 19 May, 2012, 07:15:02 pm »

Quote from: welshwheels on 19 May, 2012, 07:07:16 pm

TOP GEAR FORUM IS THAT WAY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GTFO

Northstar · « **Reply #13 on:** 19 May, 2012, 07:15:18 pm »

Quote from: welshwheels on 19 May, 2012, 07:14:52 pm

Quote from: ihatebikes on 19 May, 2012, 07:13:10 pm
Quote from: welshwheels on 19 May, 2012, 07:07:16 pm
TOP GEAR FORUM IS THAT WAY >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> GTFO

ignorant, just like who I'm talking about.

Then you have the cheek to whinge when you get knocked off your bike!

LOL
POT KETTLE ?

rogerzilla · « **Reply #14 on:** 19 May, 2012, 07:20:56 pm »

I don't think you came here for any reason other than to vent your spleen, but we rarely get this sort of provocation and everyone needs a pet, so I'll indulge ya.

Three abreast is wrong if there's anyone behind. Agreed.

Two abreast is legal and singling out probably doesn't help as much as you think it does, although it is the policy on many organised rides (e.g. my old road club and many CTC rides). You see, it doubles the length of the group you have to overtake. Now, you're probably thinking that doesn't matter, because you can squeeze through between the cyclists and the oncoming traffic when they're single file. WRONG. You need to leave the cyclists about 6 feet of space, so "squeezing through" ain't gonna be an option on all but the widest A-roads. So you're actually better off with them two abreast, then you can make a quicker overtake when there is no oncoming traffic.

If you think I'm making up the bit about leaving 6 feet, it's in the HC.

ihatebikes · « **Reply #15 on:** 19 May, 2012, 07:27:04 pm »

POT KETTLE ?
[/quote]

Yeah probably!

I am considerate to other road users, but cyclists where I live tend to be really rude and obstructive...

I should have worded my first post better. Sorry ladies and gents!

ihatebikes · « **Reply #16 on:** 19 May, 2012, 07:28:42 pm »

Quote from: rogerzilla on 19 May, 2012, 07:20:56 pm

I don't think you came here for any reason other than to vent your spleen, but we rarely get this sort of provocation and everyone needs a pet, so I'll indulge ya.

Three abreast is wrong if there's anyone behind. Agreed.

Two abreast is legal and singling out probably doesn't help as much as you think it does, although it is the policy on many organised rides (e.g. my old road club and many CTC rides). You see, it doubles the length of the group you have to overtake. Now, you're probably thinking that doesn't matter, because you can squeeze through between the cyclists and the oncoming traffic when they're single file. WRONG. You need to leave the cyclists about 6 feet of space, so "squeezing through" ain't gonna be an option on all but the widest A-roads. So you're actually better off with them two abreast, then you can make a quicker overtake when there is no oncoming traffic.

If you think I'm making up the bit about leaving 6 feet, it's in the HC.

Thanks for clarification, yeah I was venting (politely) - sorry for being a tit!

ihatebikes · « **Reply #17 on:** 19 May, 2012, 07:30:42 pm »

Quote from: road-runner on 19 May, 2012, 07:25:21 pm

Quote from: ihatebikes on 19 May, 2012, 06:45:33 pm
All I ever see is cyclists riding two or three abreast and unwilling to pull into single file. If riding alone, they usually cycle in the middle of the lane, and unwilling to pull over. (on roads where you cannot safely pass them).

These are two great topics for a discussion about safety, seeing as you are a cyclist as well as a driver.

2 or 3 abreast: I learned a lot about group riding a few years back wheh I went out with the South Bucks CTC on Wednesdays. Riding along our windy (that windy as in lots of bends, not as lotz of beanz) roads it was usually safer for all the road users, cyclists, cars, lorries, horses - to ride 2 abreast in packs of about 6 riders with a few car legths between each group. That way cars would not try and squeeze past dangerously close and when they did overtake, the peleton was short enough, rather than ma earlier experience of seeing the difficulty of trying to overtake a snake of 20 cyclists all in single file, nose to tail.

Single file in the middle of the lane. Again, on the windy country lanes, there are places where the lane is so narrow that a car cannot overtake a cycle or a horse without it being dangerous, so there are times when holding the primary position is indeed a safety device.

rogerzilla · « **Reply #18 on:** 19 May, 2012, 08:22:28 pm »

To cover your other points, some cyclists do ride like twats. Few, if any, of them, hang around on here. There's a fairly large majority of YACFers who would condemn red light jumping, for instance.

In terms of lone cyclists riding in the middle of the lane (or the primary road position, which is what motorcyclists call it), I've rarely if ever seen anyone hold this position if a another vehicle is trying to overtake, as it takes amazing cojones or ignorance to do so. It's often recommended to take the PRP if it doesn't inconvenience other traffic, because it keeps the cyclist out of trouble like grids and debris and also increases their visibility to traffic waiting at side roads. Most experienced cyclists compromise with a position about 1 metre from the kerb, where we avoid the worst of the hazards but leave the rest of the lane free.

If the lane is narrow and there is no space to overtake (e.g. at one of those lethal traffic-calming chicanes or central refuges), the cyclist is much safer taking the PRP again. Only homicidal maniacs will drive straight through you if you do this, but many, many drivers will attempt to squeeze through with their door mirror attempting to occupy the same space as your handlebars (been there, done that). Yes, it is a blocking maneouvre designed to stop the driver passing, but it is the safest way.

why1040 · « **Reply #19 on:** 19 May, 2012, 10:12:30 pm »

Yeah, okay...I'll bite

The problem is that we always notice the ones that wind us up, not the ones that do everything the way "we" would do it.

Added to which, we only ever see things from our own perspective, not from the other person's.

This afternoon, whilst driving to the stables, I met a large contingent of cyclists (I assume a sportif or something was going past, they all had numbers). Of the 40 or so cyclists I met, I saw one do a really silly thing and return onto the carriageway from the pavement where she and two others had stopped. That wouldn't have been an issue had she not cycled out right in front of the one car on that side of the carriageway, which had to brake sharply to avoid her. Ten seconds' wait would have left her a completely clear road.

I also watched at least 5 cars perform extremely unsafe overtakes, squeezing past with less than a metre-often less than 6 inches, to spare and one who hadn't completed the overtake before swinging left into the cyclist they hadn't quite overtaken-who thankfully managed to avoid being driven through by braking sharply and veering further left.

I chose not to take my horse out on the roads as they were passing quite close to the stables and my horse is still a little bike-phobic, especially when they're going fast. Otherwise, chances are that car drivers would have passed me too quickly and too closely on at least 4 occasions-based on previous experience. Considering the amount of cyclists, chances are that one or two would have overtaken me unsafely too, since unfortunately not all cyclists know how to safely overtake horses either

I still remember sitting behind a cyclist while driving a few years ago. I was a bit frustrated that they didn't get into the gutter so I could squeeze past. I didn't get het up about it-it only held me up for a few moments, but despite being a vulnerable road user when horse riding I couldn't see how unsafe that would have been. I couldn't see it from their perspective, because I didn't have the knowledge or experience to comprehend.

A certain percentage of humanity behaves poorly. Some of them drive, some of them cycle, some of them horse-ride, some of them walk. Some do more than one. But sometimes, what we consider to be idiotic behaviour is actually safe and sensible behaviour, we just don't know that it is.

Rhys W · « **Reply #20 on:** 19 May, 2012, 10:28:22 pm »

tonycollinet · « **Reply #21 on:** 19 May, 2012, 10:33:17 pm »

I'm going to bite also. I'm going to take issue with:

Quote from: ihatebikes on 19 May, 2012, 06:45:33 pm

If a cyclist is inconsederate to me on the road now, if behind them I will sound the horn, keep revving, drive close behind etc. If they're cycling towards me I just speed up and then they have to get out of the way.

So someone's behaviour annoys you, and you think you have the right to DELIBERATELY put their life in increased danger.

Quote from: ihatebikes on 19 May, 2012, 06:45:33 pm

I wish I didn't have to behave like this

Then don't! It is a CHOICE, YOU are making.

I think a number of people here have been far politer than you deserve.

Grow up!

Eccentrica Gallumbits · « **Reply #22 on:** 19 May, 2012, 11:45:22 pm »

Quote from: ihatebikes on 19 May, 2012, 06:45:33 pm

When driving, the worst road users are taxis etc. right?

Wrong, cyclists are by far the most inconsiderate road users I ever encounter.

I slow down and wait behind cyclists on country roads - where there's a blind bend or not safe to pass etc. But I never find the same courtesy extended back. All I ever see is cyclists riding two or three abreast and unwilling to pull into single file. If riding alone, they usually cycle in the middle of the lane, and unwilling to pull over. (on roads where you cannot safely pass them).

If a cyclist is inconsederate to me on the road now, if behind them I will sound the horn, keep revving, drive close behind etc. If they're cycling towards me I just speed up and then they have to get out of the way.

I wish I didn't have to behave like this, but they are so fucking rude, hold up real traffic, and really piss people off. Most car drivers try to be considerate to cyclsts, why can't cyclists behave the same?

It's not just the sunday bike riders either, its just as much the lycra brigade that behave like twats.

How do you as bike riders expect drivers to be courteous and mindful of your presence on the road when all you do is piss us off? It makes me treat you with contempt, and it shouldn't be like that.

You sound like a terrible driver, selfish, thoughtless, inconsiderate, dangerous and with an over-developed sense of self-entitlement.

Rhys W · « **Reply #23 on:** 19 May, 2012, 11:52:03 pm »

Quote from: Kirst on 19 May, 2012, 11:45:22 pm

You sound like a ~~terrible~~ typical driver, selfish, thoughtless, inconsiderate, dangerous and with an over-developed sense of self-entitlement.

andyoxon · « **Reply #24 on:** 20 May, 2012, 12:20:53 am »

Quote from: ihatebikes on 19 May, 2012, 06:45:33 pm

I am a car driver who enjoys a bit of cycling from time to time.
...
if behind them I will sound the horn, keep revving, drive close behind etc. If they're cycling towards me I just speed up and then they have to get out of the way.

Something is not as it seems here. Particularly disturbing is the dangerous behaviour towards an oncoming cyclist.

Quote

I wish I didn't have to behave like this [...]

You don't and you shouldn't.

Author Topic: Why can't people learn to use the road courteously? (Read 7278 times)

plum