DfT announces new funds for cycle infrastructure...

[simonp]

The guard on the train the last time I went to chez Feline is probably quite pro-cyclist - he was asking Feline as she waited for me on the platform if we ride Audaxes around the area, and it turned out he rode PBP in 2007. 

[Kim]

It isn't beyond the wit of man to provide facilities for carrying cycles that can be used as seating during peak hours, thobut.

Or, and here's a thought, they could charge extra for cycles (and guarantee a space).

[AndyK]

Perhaps go back to trains having a guard's van. Never had a problem taking bikes on trains when there were guard's vans. And I'm not talking about during the steam age of railways, this was on BR in the '70s and early '80s.

[teethgrinder]

Perhaps go back to trains having a guard's van. Never had a problem taking bikes on trains when there were guard's vans. And I'm not talking about during the steam age of railways, this was on BR in the '70s and early '80s.

You just beat me to it.
I remember using guards vans on the South Central trains to ride Wessex Audax events and that was in the '90s. They were great and you could fit plenty of bikes in those without any problems.
Then the new trains came along with their stupidly designed cycle storage. Instead of everyone piling into the guards van with their bike, so several could easily get on and off just as quick as you would on any other part of the train. It meant a daft rigamarole of open train door, get on with bike, close train door so that it was no longer blocking the entrance to the bike storage. Then try and get your bike into the narrow bike storage. Bad enough with just one bike, but if there was a few, it usualy delayed the train. So for about 3 times less "dead" train space for bikes, you got about 4 (or more) times less cycle capacity and a load of delays to go with it. This train goes through Bournemouth, Southampton the New Forest which is popular with family cyclists. The guards vans could easily accommodate a family or two of leisure cyclists as well as a few others. The new trains wouldn't accommodate one family. They only officialy have space for 3 and often end up with 4 or 5 crammed into that space.
Virgin trains still use guards vans for bikes, but now they have a rack with space for, I think, 6 bikes (we got a few extra ones on after a 600k a few years ago)
It works quite well. It'd be even better if you didn't need the guard to open the guards van for you. I tend to have a policy that if they aren't at the guards van within a few minutes of arrival, I'll wheel my bike down the aisle and get off the train via the passenger door. I have been tempted to make my own key for the guards van, but I rarely use trains with my bike on account of their expense and hassle if you have a bike. I may use them more, now that i have a good padded bike bag and I could smuggle my bike (with wheels removed) on as normal luggage, as I did on the TGV from Paris to Milan. The train fares are a bit off putting though, for a tight git like me who could usualy cycle there much cheaper.

[Kim]

I tend to have a policy that if they aren't at the guards van within a few minutes of arrival, I'll wheel my bike down the aisle and get off the train via the passenger door.

This only works if you've got a drop barred (and therefore narrow) bike, or a reasonably empty carriage and either no rear mudguard or plenty of height and upper body strength.  DAHIKT  (Pirate carriage keys left as an exercise for the reader.)

[Jaded]

Guard's vans.

To get throughput many stations are run with a critical timing to get the doors open then closed. Electric doors are marvellous for this. Unless the cyclists are in the coach right next to the Guard's van you build delays into the system. Thus reducing capacity on the network.

Facilities that convert to seats in peak time? Isn't that when the cyclists want to travel?

[Cudzoziemiec]

The last time I actually travelled with a bike on a train there was neither guard's van nor cycle space. My bike, for which I'd bought a "pram or cycle" ticket at very small cost, went across the gangway doors at the very end of the last carriage, in accordance with the applicable regulations. But that was in Poland in 2000.

[rower40]

The general purposeness of the old DMU Guard's Van had its downside.  In approx 1982, I loaded a bike into an empty van at Ely for the trip to Mordor Central, and went to sit down behind the driver where I could see out forwards.  Something made me wander through at Leicester, and my bike had disappeared beneath a wall of mailbags, stretching from floor to ceiling.  There was possibly now an 18" corridor down the middle of the van.

The guard parted some of the bags to reveal my handlebar, as proof that my bike was still aboard.  I asked "What if I'd been getting out before the mailbags?" to which the answer was "Why didn't you put a label on your bike?"

Imagine the Daily Fail's rant that would occur today if the Royal Mail were to send its precious cargo by trains where the Great Unwashed could simply pick up a bag and walk off with it.  Therefore no business benefit from providing van space.

[Jaded]

The last time I actually travelled with a bike on a train there was neither guard's van nor cycle space. My bike, for which I'd bought a "pram or cycle" ticket at very small cost, went across the gangway doors at the very end of the last carriage, in accordance with the applicable regulations. But that was in Poland in 2000.

I know that thankfully crashes are now very rare on our trains. However, it is hard enough to get out of a compromised train without the added frisson of aggregated bikes with stuff.

Seat cushions, luggage, people, darkness and major disorientation are quite enough, thanks.

Oh, and I know that looking at rare occurrences and legislating or trying to legislate for them is silly. It's why we have Part P electrical regs, and wankers trying to impose helmets on us.

So there's not a lot of win about, unfortunately.

[Cudzoziemiec]

It was the very end of the train - the door behind it led onto the track, so was locked. Had I been travelling first class, it would have been in front of another locked door, in front of which was the loco - so I'm not sure it would have made much difference. These were corridor and compartment trains, which I don't think are used in UK anymore. Besides, as I said, I was only putting it where it was supposed to go! More to the point, it means there's only really room for two bikes on a whole train of ten (IIRC) carriages, even if you have bought a bike ticket. So it's not really a particularly good system for anyone.

[Feline]

I think I must be quite lucky with the local trains, because the one I generally pick to travel on (off peak, I would never travel peak with a bike)  has a guards van and as simonp says the conductor has ridden PBP and is both friendly and helpful. When he saw me on the platform with my bike last week he asked if I was getting on and I replied no, I was meeting Simon. We chatted about Audax and shared PBP experiences while Simon got off. He was also planning to ride the Gospel Pass 

[Regulator]

Interesting how much the Cycle Rail Working Group got. I wonder exactly what they will do with it.

I predict it'll be mostly bike parking at stations^[1] (not that that's a bad thing), rather than something really innovative like better facilities for carrying cycles on trains.  That seems to be the elephant in the room where integrated transport is concerned.


_{[1] Though obviously not Mordor Central.  It's not like anyone would want to park a bike there, or they're in the middle of a major redevelopment which would provide an excellent opportunity to improve the facilities, or anything.}   

This. I saw an announcement about an additional 3,000 spaces at Cambridge station.

Doesn't remotely help me.  There's no way I'd leave a bike parked there. It's coming with me on the train or I don't travel by train.

It looks as though the new spaces at Cambridge will be in a secure, CCTV monitored multistory bike park. They probably be charged for - the suggestion is £1 per day, similar to the Leeds CyclePoint.

The government funding will only cover 20% of the cost - the rest is coming from the private sector and I reckon there'll be demand for the parking.

[Cudzoziemiec]

multisroty nike park.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Actually, I've remembered I have taken my bike on a train more recently. It was last summer. I'd ridden to Pill and then Avonmouth, then got a puncture, had no tube/patches, came back home on a local train. Went in the tip up seat area, which happened to be full of bikes in both carriages of the two-car train.

[simonp]

I think I must be quite lucky with the local trains, because the one I generally pick to travel on (off peak, I would never travel peak with a bike)  has a guards van and as simonp says the conductor has ridden PBP and is both friendly and helpful. When he saw me on the platform with my bike last week he asked if I was getting on and I replied no, I was meeting Simon. We chatted about Audax and shared PBP experiences while Simon got off. He was also planning to ride the Gospel Pass 

FGW Intercity are good for bikes for the most part, as are East Coast. The fact that you can get all the way to London from a station only 8 miles away is very fortunate. Most of the time for long distance journeys it works reasonably well for me. I used to go East Coast to Glasgow, and my preferred way of doing this was FCC to Stevenage on a very early train from Cambridge. Bike ban only applies south of Stevenage you see. But now EC have stopped going across to Glasgow I'm forced to go into London and use Virgin. That limits my options.

The new trains from my mum's to Glasgow are very good. Commuter service with proper tables, power points under the tables and a proper disabled and separate cycle areas with fold down seats.

[mattc]

Guard's vans.

To get throughput many stations are run with a critical timing to get the doors open then closed. Electric doors are marvellous for this. Unless the cyclists are in the coach right next to the Guard's van you build delays into the system. Thus reducing capacity on the network.

Facilities that convert to seats in peak time? Isn't that when the cyclists want to travel?

Not all of them! Besides, some compromise seems sensible.

If I'm commuting I'm more likely to use bikeparking, as I'll have a short ride => cheap bike suffices.

Longer journey, better bike, and more likely to need it at both ends (e.g. for a tour or leisure trip). Less hassle travelling off-peak if it's a one-off trip.

[arabella]

Ipswich mainline trains have a guards van that you can only get to from the outside.  It's always at the Norwich end of the train so at least I know where to stand.

The slower trains have the pop up seats (newer ones are the style next to the disabled/baby change loo).  This is fine until someone decides they want to sit there (which is OK if they have a pushchair/wheelchair obv.) but usually it's just 'cos that's the door they were standing nearest and 'here's an empty seat'.
So signage along the lines of this space has priority allocation for (i) wheelchairs, (ii) pushchairs, (iii) cycles/tandems/trikes/recumbents and (iv) large items of luggage.
And some enforcement (along with the coach B quiet coach enforcement).

I've started using the high speed trains.  I've given up on the cycle compartment because firstly the label with a bike on it is so tiny that you can't see it at any distance and also the guard can never tell you which end of the train it's at (putting it in the middle of the train would have been good.  then I'd know where to stand) - so if in the wrong place you have to sprint the length of the train.

Maybe they should reuse the idea of the Heathrow UG trains (large luggage areas in each carriage with pop up seats) for the slower trains and be consistent with the location for guards vans on all other trains.  (Would probably take more than £15M though)

[mattc]

- so if in the wrong place you have to sprint the length of the train.

... and if you delay the train, you get shouted at. If you ride on the platform to save time, you get shouted at ...