Does the turbo count??

[IanDG]

I count my roller 'miles'. The weather is so crap/dangerous here at this time of year that I have to spend a lot of time on them if I want some kind of build up. Recording the 'distance' gives some motivation and a record of the amount of time spent pedalling. Having only had rollers for the last few years the the benefit of spending time on them (when the wind is howling and there's 50mph horizontal rain outside) is noticable

[eck]

You know it's much more complex than time or distance.  Your own example includes time & distance.

Yes, I do know that.
I was querying your assertion that "time" was a better way of recording training than distance, by giving an example of a constant time spent on the bike, but covering quite different distances.
But you knew that. 

[gonzo]

Time is a better method of measuring bike based effort, but time x perceived exertion is even better!

[MSeries]

In casual conversations that I have witnessed, in the press or first hand,  I usually hear serious riders talking about  5 hour rides or whatever, rarely 100 milers. Many training programs talk about 2 hour rides at a certain intensity or 2 min intervals at 90% or whatever. Even the AUK handbook talks about time rather than distance "10-14 hours training during a week" it says.

FWIW I record my miles ridden, that's all. Stationary 'miles' where recorded separately since I never actually went anywhere.

 I don't do on bike training any more, took the fun out of it. Cycling is cycling, not training for more cycling, for me anyway.

[inc]

Record whatever you want, miles or time, it is of no interest to anyone other than yourself. If you are using it as some type of training record them you will need intensity also as either time or distance is meaningless ( for training) without it.

[Rob S]

If you count your turbo miles in your annual mileage then you'll have no problem counting my 17 minutes for 10 miles on rollers that I did whilst watching Neighbours on the garage telly back in 1991 as a legitimate personal best.

[eck]

No problem at all mate,but only if you didn't freewheel any of the downhill bits. 

Has "Neighbours" really been going that long?

[Rob S]

Has "Neighbours" really been going that long?

It's been on since the mid 80s.

[Ian H]

There's no Zen on a turbotrainer.

Distance lends enchantment.

[IanDG]

Record whatever you want, miles or time, it is of no interest to anyone other than yourself. If you are using it as some type of training record them you will need intensity also as either time or distance is meaningless ( for training) without it.

I think that's the main thing here - it's up to you and it depends why you're recording anything at all.

This is why I record roller 'miles'

If Stornoway has a good January/February I go out and do 300km each month and feel great in March.

If the weather is crap I do about 50km a month (outdoors).

If I know I need the equivalent of about 300km a month to feel good in March then I know I need to do about 250km on the rollers each month.

It therefore helps to keep a diary and log all 'miles'

[mattc]

In casual conversations that I have witnessed, in the press or first hand,  I usually hear serious riders talking about  5 hour rides or whatever, rarely 100 milers. Many training programs talk about 2 hour rides at a certain intensity or 2 min intervals at 90% or whatever. Even the AUK handbook talks about time rather than distance "10-14 hours training during a week" it says.

Spot on. The simplest "scientific" way to measure training is:

...
Session X: time @ HR-reading, etc ...
...

(I usually leave my computer  at home for non-Audax rides  )

Also, I think the idea of "a 2 hour ride" works because you tend to ride just as hard/easy whatever bike/luggage you're riding, or whatever the wind etc. Your mileage may differ hugely. If you had 3 hours spare at the weekend for training, would it make any difference to always pick the flattest route and the fastest bike?

[Rob S]

Record whatever you want, miles or time, it is of no interest to anyone other than yourself. If you are using it as some type of training record them you will need intensity also as either time or distance is meaningless ( for training) without it.

I think that's the main thing here - it's up to you and it depends why you're recording anything at all.

This is why I record roller 'miles'

If Stornoway has a good January/February I go out and do 300km each month and feel great in March.

If the weather is crap I do about 50km a month (outdoors).

If I know I need the equivalent of about 300km a month to feel good in March then I know I need to do about 250km on the rollers each month.

It therefore helps to keep a diary and log all 'miles'

Or..do the 'miles' on the rollers in order to feel good in March, make a note of them somewhere, but only count the road miles towards the annual mileage.

[teethgrinder]

 It's about being out there as part of the cycling community, getting fresh air, experiencing the elements and the great feeling you get when you come back to lovely hot tea.

What if you get your cycling friends together and have a turbo session outside?
Thats a good way of training socialy for people with mixed ability. Turbo trainers are part of the ccling community, at least they are for racing cyclists. In my cycling club is a good rider who swears by his turbo. He can ride himself dizzy. He wouldn't want to get like that on the road.

There's no Zen on a turbotrainer.

I don't agree with that. Get a rythem going and you can shut everything else out of your head and concentrate on nothing but turning the pedals.
Putting a lot of effort in is very demanding mentally. When I raced on the velodrome an was putting a big effort in, I was only aware of what I needed to be aware of. Everything else was blurred or shut out.
I doubt that I'd want to use a turbo for low intensity stuff though. That would be torture to me.

[gonzo]

I don't agree with that. Get a rythem going and you can shut everything else out of your head and concentrate on nothing but turning the pedals.

I agree entirely, turbo training is great for doing workouts without interuptions caused by lights/traffic etc.

When I raced on the velodrome an was putting a big effort in, I was only aware of what I needed to be aware of. Everything else was blurred or shut out.

I once made that mistake; I was racing a pursuit and was beating the bloke who won everything. Unfortunately, I was so focussed on going fast that I miss-counted my laps and did the last lap as a warm down and was subsequently beaten by him!

[teethgrinder]

I don't agree with that. Get a rythem going and you can shut everything else out of your head and concentrate on nothing but turning the pedals.

I agree entirely, turbo training is great for doing workouts without interuptions caused by lights/traffic etc.

When I raced on the velodrome an was putting a big effort in, I was only aware of what I needed to be aware of. Everything else was blurred or shut out.

I once made that mistake; I was racing a pursuit and was beating the bloke who won everything. Unfortunately, I was so focussed on going fast that I miss-counted my laps and did the last lap as a warm down and was subsequently beaten by him!

Ding-a-ling-a-ling

You never heard the bell for the last lap?!

I know what you mean. I remember my father commenting that I was getting mentioned on the loudspeaker while I was racing. I was never aware. He never believed me.

[gonzo]

You never heard the bell for the last lap?!

I know what you mean. I remember my father commenting that I was getting mentioned on the loudspeaker while I was racing. I was never aware. He never believed me.

All I could see was a line for about 5 meters in front of my front wheel! Hearing was one of the first things to go!

[vorsprung]

It's not at all comparable - so how could it possibly be fair to count turbo miles?

I can maintain 40km/hr for 20 minutes on the turbo (just). There's absolutely stuff-all chance of me ever doing that outside on the road.

It's cheatin' I tell ya!

I can't

My turbo is set to simulate going up a gentle hill
I'm doing well if I do 25km/h

It is pretend distance but real effort

[Gandalf]

In that case I'm off to polish my inferiority complex.  On most of the Tacx Real life videos  I'm in single figures for most of the route.

[IanDG]

Or..do the 'miles' on the rollers in order to feel good in March, make a note of them somewhere, but only count the road miles towards the annual mileage.

Why should I have to? It's my training record, for my benefit and for my comparison of the amount of training done year upon year

[Rob S]

Or..do the 'miles' on the rollers in order to feel good in March, make a note of them somewhere, but only count the road miles towards the annual mileage.

Why should I have to? It's my training record, for my benefit and for my comparison of the amount of training done year upon year

And how do you compare year on year if you don't differentiate between roller miles and road miles? You think 300 miles on the road in January one year is anything like the achievement of 300 miles in the garage in January the next year?

[eck]

You think 300 miles on the road in January one year is anything like the achievement of 300 miles in the garage in January the next year?

Rob, do you deduct the bits you freewheel? If not, why not?
How do you know your 300 miles on the road isn't actually 283.68 miles?
Surely the freewheel bits can't count the same as the "proper" bits. 

[IanDG]

I don't race any more so don't do intervals or specialist training, the bulk of my riding is 'steady pace'. I ride rollers on a 61" fixed so do about 18-20mph. On the road I do between 15 -18 mph, occasionaly pushing myself to evens (for upto an hour) if I feel particularly good. So relatively speaking there isn't much difference timewise between what I do on the rollers and what I do on the road. By the end of the year I've probably only done about 5% on the rollers so I'm not really bothered, it gives me an estimate of the amount of time/effort I've spent on a bike in a year.

By recording all time spent on the bike (MTB/commute/rollers/road) as 'miles' I can look back over a year and say 'I spent more time on the bike this year compared to last' or 'I had a good spring this year because I put a lot of work in in the winter'

Why should x number of miles  in my log (however ridden) at the end of the year really matter to anyone except me?

45 minutes to an hour on the rollers can be more mentally and physically demanding than going 20 miles with a hebridean tail wind - it's all relative (and personal)

Because I use Bikejournal I do have the option to filter out road/mountain bike/commute/rollers if I wish but can't be bothered.

And I have no problem with your 17 minute turbo 10. There are many different types of records - for rollers, track, HPV, out and back road TT, place to place and oneway records. 

[annie]

I don't really count turbo miles, I am interested in looking at improvements in my results over certain courses, this is on the Real Axiom Elite.

Today I used the turbo without the computer.

10 minute warm up

19 on the back and middle ring

1 minute at 100rpm, 1 minute at 105, then 110, 115 and 120

2 minutes easy spinning

down a cog on the back and repeat, do this until you reach the last cog or expire.

I think it works and in fact am finding it a little easier so start at 105 and go up to 125

[Rob S]

And I have no problem with your 17 minute turbo 10. There are many different types of records - for rollers, track, HPV, out and back road TT, place to place and oneway records. 

Exactly....my point was about saying my PB for 10 miles is 17 minutes when it's only done on rollers. On the road my PB is nearer 25-26 minutes.

[IanDG]

When I used to race I used to make more detailed training records as it was more important and I spent more time analysing my training.

There were neither turbos nor computers when I were a lad, so training was recorded thus:

Time spent on rollers was recorded as time.

Time spent on the road was recorded as time and miles (I used to run a cotton around the route on a 1" OS map and measure it against the scale to estimate distance). I also recorded intensity and the relative proportions of time spent  at different intensity,types of intervals, gears etc. + notes like 'climbed all hills on big ring'

The track was an estimate of number of laps converted to mileage and again a very detailed account of the types and intensity of training or the type of race.

Racing I used the race distance + an estimate for warm up and made very detailed accounts of wind direction gears on specific hills or tracks, how I felt, times to turns etc.

I was well and truly obsessive about the records I kept.

I'm older now and have different priorities, what does all that matter to a leisure cyclist pushing 50 who just wants an idea of how much time he's spent on his bike in a year?