High Power Light Systems On The Road

[Charlotte]

Hmmmm.  I'm seeing both sides in this argument.  I blogged about it a while ago.  Most of my commuting's done with a B&M IQ Cyo, a light which is powerful, but well-shaped and not likely to dazzle oncoming motorists.  It's good, but I've still had vehicles pull out in front of me.

When I ride with my Fenix L2D on full disco mode (v.fast tactical strobe) nobody gives me any grief.  If I filter through thick traffic with it, people actively pull out of my way.

My Fantom rear light is fecking bright and yes, I do have it a degree or two above the horizontal.  If I'm riding with a pack of other cyclists, I don't use it because up close, it does dazzle.  But you've got to ride with one of these things before you dismiss them.  The amount of room that they buy you from following and overtaking traffic is very noticeable.

[Wendy]

Hmmmm.  I'm seeing both sides in this argument.  I blogged about it a while ago.  Most of my commuting's done with a B&M IQ Cyo, a light which is powerful, but well-shaped and not likely to dazzle oncoming motorists.  It's good, but I've still had vehicles pull out in front of me.

Even the brightest lights won't stop drivers pulling out.  Sometimes even a copper making a simple scan error:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/DATtvvo-kTw&rel=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/DATtvvo-kTw&rel=1</a>

When I ride with my Fenix L2D on full disco mode (v.fast tactical strobe) nobody gives me any grief.  If I filter through thick traffic with it, people actively pull out of my way.

That's what I get with the MaxxD on flash.  I've never yet dared to ride with a Fenix on tactical strobe - I think I'd feel uncomfortable with that as it's designed with prejudice in mind.

My Fantom rear light is fecking bright and yes, I do have it a degree or two above the horizontal.  If I'm riding with a pack of other cyclists, I don't use it because up close, it does dazzle.  But you've got to ride with one of these things before you dismiss them.  The amount of room that they buy you from following and overtaking traffic is very noticeable.

It is dazzling from close by, but after you get 10-15m back, it's no longer so bright.  Car drivers have commented that at first they thought I was a motorcycle with the brake light stuck on.

[andygates]

If you want to zap drivers in the face, a head torch is absolutely the best.   

[GruB]

My commute home with Lumi Halide on all the way did not result in one flash in 24 miles 

[Chris N]

I got flashed - my DIY-upgraded Solidlights are fecking bright.  They got a face full of headtorch and the finger.  No idea if they saw it, but it made me feel better.

[GruB]

I got flashed - my DIY-upgraded Solidlights are fecking bright.  They got a face full of headtorch and the finger.  No idea if they saw it, but it made me feel better.

Ya rebel 

[DrMekon]

I have twin Ixon IQs - never gotten flashed (shaped beam), but if I add a Tesco torch to the front, I started getting flashed. Bright lights don't need to be antisocial.

[Valiant]

I ride with my Dinotte 720L on bright "strobe" which flashes from bright to extremely bright about 3 times a second. It's angled slightly down, the of the brighter part of the beam is aimed just below the average drivers eyes. Tis is the perfect height to hit the wing mirrors and light up the whole car. Since I've done it, no ones tried to door me, like someone did years ago @30mph that's left me with a fucked up back for the rest of me life. I will also admit to drivers moving out the way when filtering. My rear Dinotte 160L is set to high strobe too, it's angle down to light up the tarmac and if you're about 5m back, most of your bonnet.

Anyways, the problem with beam patterns and shaping is that all the high power lights aren't really sold for road use, their aimed at offroaders and the like where the ideal beam patterns for the road would be no good. That said there's nothing like clocking up 20mph on the towpaths at night with full beams

[Cudzoziemiec]

This is a design problem....

Car lights have a pattern that has a dim top half, which does not happen on bike lights.

B&M LED lights do.  They have a very well-defined beam pattern with a crisp horizontal cut-off (to meet German regs on bike lights I think).

The advance of LED technology means that we'll have tougher regs/fines here soon.

There's not much skill in producing a bright light but there is some skill in producing an effective lens/reflector that puts the light where it's needed.

Don't know about the regs, but I'd like to have a bike light which is as bright and as simple as a car headlight. Most snazzy, biright bike lights have so many positions. All you really need is two - "dip" and "full blast", the latter to be used off road or to alert when someone else is dazzling you by not dipping.

[Chris N]

... to alert when someone else is dazzling you by not dipping.

You're not allowed to do that in a car.  Why should bikes be any different?

[mattc]

... to alert when someone else is dazzling you by not dipping.

You're not allowed to do that in a car.  Why should bikes be any different?

Come off it Chris - everyone does it! It's common sense.

------------------------

Don't know about the regs, but I'd like to have a bike light which is as bright and as simple as a car headlight. Most snazzy, biright bike lights have so many positions. All you really need is two - "dip" and "full blast", the latter to be used off road or to alert when someone else is dazzling you by not dipping.

... and a switch you can flick as easily, in winter gloves ...

[nuttycyclist]

I got dazzled last night by two cyclists with stupid lights.

I couldn't see clearly where I was going.  I couldn't slow or stop because I had traffic behind and knew there was a traffic island in my vicinity and so if I stopped I might be blocking the road.

I just squinted and aimed at what I thought was the clear path between the oncoming traffic (to my right) and the two death rays of oncoming cyclists on the pavement to my left. 

[Wendy]

Surely either it wasn't that dangerous, otherwise you'd have stopped regardless and lifted your bike onto the pavement?  That's what I would have done in similar circumstances.

[nuttycyclist]

If I'd stopped then I was at risk of being rear-ended, especially as that's the location that drivers are swerving back into the kerb so as to avoid the central island.

Yes I could just see the well lit road ahead if I squinted.

My biggest fear though was how is the driver following me coping with this glare?  Can they see?  Do they have a clean windscreen or are they now unable to see at all thanks to the stupid lights from the muppets on the pavement fogging out the dirt/grime/scratches/other?


My only option was to maintain a steady speed and course and get past the oncoming cyclists as quickly as possible.



There is no need to fit lights that bright to bicycles.  Especially in town.  And especially if all you are doing is riding on the pavement.

[Zoidburg]

I had a chap fall in behind me on an unlit section last night, lights on full but set to strobe.

It is unlit and pitch dark on that stretch and I am not sure what he could see at all with the lights doing that, they werent lighting up the road and the flash/dark flash/dark pattern would ensure that he would not be able to see a bloody thing inbetween flashes as his night vision will be shot to buggery.

If it's pitch dark set your lights to constant so you aren't getting a reduced frame rate view of what you are about to run in to.

[Redlight]

strobes and flashing lights are just irritating, full stop.

[rower40]

I've got quite bright lights, set low enough (usually) so as not to dazzle oncomers.  I don't ever get flashed.
I think the mindset around here is:

I Can See Those Lights
Bikes Don't Have Lights
=> It Can't Be A Bike
=> It Must Be A Car
=> I Don't Flash Car Drivers

[nic]

Speaking of high power light systems, I just ordered one of these 900 lumens babies:

   DealExtreme: $79.81 HA-III SSC P7-C (SXO) 3-Mode 900-Lumen LED Bike Light Set

[ed_o_brain]

Or, more strangely, the people with mega-death-ray REAR lights angled badly that dazzle like lasers. People overtaking from behind pass much closer than oncoming vehicles.

Either this bit isn't true,

I meant that cars coming the other way are already on the other side of the road, pretty much as far away as possible as they can be. Not that cars pass people with bright rear lights closer than people with dim rear lights.

If you dazzle an oncoming motorist they'll have to drift over into your lane in order to hit you. If you dazzle a motorist approaching from behind then they may not move over enough not to hit you.

I've never seen a cyclist with rear lights powerful enough/set high enough to dazzle at anything more than a few meters away from them. Even my own setup has two (out of three) superflashes angled slightly upwards and although they grab attention, they don't dazzle, not me at least.

[GruB]

My rear Dinotte is quite, erm, bright.

[Cunobelin]

This is a design problem....

Car lights have a pattern that has a dim top half, which does not happen on bike lights.

B&M LED lights do.  They have a very well-defined beam pattern with a crisp horizontal cut-off (to meet German regs on bike lights I think).

The advance of LED technology means that we'll have tougher regs/fines here soon.

There's not much skill in producing a bright light but there is some skill in producing an effective lens/reflector that puts the light where it's needed.

Don't know about the regs, but I'd like to have a bike light which is as bright and as simple as a car headlight. Most snazzy, biright bike lights have so many positions. All you really need is two - "dip" and "full blast", the latter to be used off road or to alert when someone else is dazzling you by not dipping.

The problem here is accessing the controls.

My Maxx has a small button on the back of the unit that is not easily accessible, it ia a long reach from seat to the fairing on a Catrike.

I must admit I tend to use flashing on the wet grey days as it has little effect on battery life and then the high beam when commuting or on a long journey compromise by going down one or two stops to lenghten battery life.

[GruB]

I don't try and dazzle anyone that is dazzling me.  It does not seem the correct thing to do in my mind.  Sharing the road - equal use and all that.  One wrong does not make a right.  It doesn't happen all that often either.  Now and then I will meet a car that fails to dip and I am doing my best to see the verge so I don't end up as a bonnet ornament.  I do not have time or the skill to try and flick my lights to high beam.

I do angle my Lumi Halide slightly to the nearside verge as well, as dipped beam head lights are set.  That means the brightness is slightly less for oncoming vehicles and it means I can always see the edge of the road.

Sharing the road and remaining safe is the key.

[rogerzilla]

I've never seen a cyclist with rear lights powerful enough/set high enough to dazzle at anything more than a few meters away from them. Even my own setup has two (out of three) superflashes angled slightly upwards and although they grab attention, they don't dazzle, not me at least.

The Supernova E3 is truly unpleasant to have coming towards you, having observed chocolatebike's.  The Hope Vision 1 looks as if it has similar optics, but isn't quite as offensive (or as bright).  These lights are only in the 3W range, but the intensely specular nature of the light coupled with all sorts of artefacts in the beam pattern make them quite blinding.

[andrew_s]

Don't know about the regs, but I'd like to have a bike light which is as bright and as simple as a car headlight. Most snazzy, biright bike lights have so many positions. All you really need is two - "dip" and "full blast", the latter to be used off road or to alert when someone else is dazzling you by not dipping.

I've converted to a high beam/low beam approach by using two lights, with the high beam light just used as on or off.
Low beam is Edelux (same as b+m Cyo), with the top of the beam set below dazzle height.
High beam is one of the Dealextreme 900 lumen jobbies that nic linked to above.

The trouble at present is that "off" for the DX light is either a 2 second hold, or 3 button presses to cycle past low and flash. I mostly use the 2 second hold, with a hand over the front of the light.

[mattc]

I've never seen a cyclist with rear lights powerful enough/set high enough to dazzle at anything more than a few meters away from them. Even my own setup has two (out of three) superflashes angled slightly upwards and although they grab attention, they don't dazzle, not me at least.

I'm getting pretty bored of saying this, but here ya go:

I have, many times. Are you inside my head to know otherwise?

EDIT: mseries put it better, but dazzle has a vague definition which includes "reducing your vision", so I think it covers a wide range of effects, if people want to be pedantic.

(It's made much worse by rain on my specs - I then have to give up and drop back 2-300m. Cheers mate).