An argument in favour of "lawyer lips"

[Greenbank]

That's even worse - not just someone flipping it, or even (conceivably) catching it accidentally as they get their own bike out.  That's got to be malicious.

Maybe not, someone who doesn't understand QRs could have snagged on it as they walked past and pulled it open. When they tried to fix it they didn't know it's supposed to be done up so tight, so they loosened it a bit and closed it again.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Possibly, and preferably, but it usually takes a deliberate action to open a QR. I can't imagine you could open one by brushing against it unless it was so loose as to be already dangerous.

[fred the great]

And where were the Security Guards? if no cameras are to be found.

I can't say what I would do to the vandal 'cos it's rather rude

[CommuteTooFar]

I hate lawyers lips. (Despite suffering disc break ejection).  A puncture is an annoyance so as I irritatedly pull the wheel from the dropout I want as little interference as possible.  I have cut my finger as I realign the hub so it passes these useless pieces of American liability avoidance.

[Zipperhead]

Those moaning about 'lawyer lips' on a disk-brake equipped bike need to do a google search on the issue. 
Plenty of evidence stating that the braking force on a disk attached to the lower fork leg using standard mountings, has the effect of cantilevering the bike away from the QR. Potentially leading to the afore-mentioned loss of teeth (if not worse).

That's surely a good reason for not using forks & brakes in that configuration - if the braking forces are ejecting the wheel, the design is wrong. Merely having lawyer lips to hold it in place (intentionally or otherwise) is not the solution.

[Zoidburg]

One of the forum legal bods may be able to advise but IIRC there is an offence of interfering with a vehicle's safety (but I may be wrong).  It might be worth pointing that out at work.

I think this law is quoted at the back of the Highway Code, BICBW.

I believe the offence commited in this case is "malicious tampering"

A simple criminal offence covering all acts of deliberate vandalism that are intended to cause injury, IIRC correctly it can cover anything from loonies that tamper with food in supermarkets to oiks leaving stuff on the railway tracks.

TC needs to get the tapes and get this fecker fired and nicked before he hurts someone.

[Regulator]

Hmmmmm.... I've always had a thing about lawyer lips....

***Winks at Spen***

[JonBuoy]

I hate lawyers lips. (Despite suffering disc break ejection).  A puncture is an annoyance so as I irritatedly pull the wheel from the dropout I want as little interference as possible.  I have cut my finger as I realign the hub so it passes these useless pieces of American liability avoidance.

Flip QR.
Hold QR nut and rotate lever 5 full turns.
Remove wheel, fix puncture, reinsert wheel etc.
Hold QR nut and rotate lever 5 full turns (in other direction).
Flip QR.

It must add a couple of seconds to the whole process.

[Valiant]

I like to see it as attempted manslaughter. People tend to take it more seriously then.

[tonycollinet]

Update:

Event reported - video has been watched. Unfortunately is of the type that only records when movement is detected, plus some time either side. It only recorded when I arrived, then nothing till midnight. The area is a thoroughfare, so either the CCTV is not working or the sensitivity is set too low.

However, after the site email warning cyclist to check their bikes went out, someone else reported that they came off their bike a couple of weeks ago, when riding home - and the wheel was loose. They have just put 2+2 together. I had a chat, and before the off, they experienced the same symptoms as me, again, like me initially attributing it to a loose headset.

So we have another day to check video from.

I like to see it as attempted manslaughter. People tend to take it more seriously then.

Not sure you can attempt manslaughter. If you attempt it, it aint manslaughter any more.

[Oaky]

I hate lawyers lips. (Despite suffering disc break ejection).  A puncture is an annoyance so as I irritatedly pull the wheel from the dropout I want as little interference as possible.  I have cut my finger as I realign the hub so it passes these useless pieces of American liability avoidance.

Flip QR.
Hold QR nut and rotate lever 5 full turns.
Remove wheel, fix puncture, reinsert wheel etc.
Hold QR nut and rotate lever 5 full turns (in other direction).
Flip QR.

It must add a couple of seconds to the whole process.

for me it usually goes as follows

Flip QR.
Hold QR nut and rotate lever 6 full turns.
Try and fail to remove wheel
Swear about the lawyer lips
Turn QR another couple of turns (#)
Fail to get the wheel out again
Realise that yet again the lawyer lips weren't the problem - it was me forgetting to undo the brake release 
Fix puncture, reinsert wheel etc.
Hold QR nut and rotate lever 6 full turns (in other direction).
Flip QR.
Realise that it needed an extra one since I lost count at (#)
Flip QR back
Give it one more turn
Flip QR

 

[nuttycyclist]

I don't understand the issue with lawyer lips either.   I've never had any problem removing a wheel.

[rogerzilla]

You have to readjust the QR every time you refit the wheel, so the QR becomes a very Slow R.  Get a fork custom made by Argos and they'll never put the bastard things on 

[nuttycyclist]

Very slow R?

It adds about one and a half seconds to the release and about two seconds to the closing.

If that four seconds (I'll be generous) is too much of a hindrance to you, then why not get a team car to follow you with a spare bike in case of problem.



It usually takes me nearly a minute to find the spare tube. 

[Greenbank]

That's if you don't have to adjust it, otherwise it becomes:-

Try closing it, too easy, tighten a couple of revolutions, try closing again, still a bit too loose, spin one more revolution, tiny bit too tight, loosen slightly on the nut side, close QR, done.

That can easily take 10 seconds or so, still better than rummaging around for a spanner or an allen key or even a pitlock key.

[Jaded]

and that 10 seconds could certainly put me out of time on a 200km. 

[Ian H]

Those moaning about 'lawyer lips' on a disk-brake equipped bike need to do a google search on the issue...

Front disks on standard forks are an issue. I thought that some if not all new forks designed for disks now had the dropouts suitably angled so the axle won't try to wind out.

[richie]

Those moaning about 'lawyer lips' on a disk-brake equipped bike need to do a google search on the issue...

Front disks on standard forks are an issue. I thought that some if not all new forks designed for disks now had the dropouts suitably angled so the axle won't try to wind out.

Possibly - however as i haven't bought a set of MTB forks for three years at least, then i don't know.   I'd have thought the only 'safe' answer is a re-design of the brake mount so the braking forces pull the disk/QR together rather than forcing apart, regardless of drop-out angle.  probably cost the manufacturers too much, though.

There is (was?) an ongoing court case earlier this year where a MTBer paralysed in a crash in the Brecons was suing Specialised.  I think his argument was that Spesh were aware of the issue but neglected to do anything about it. 

[clarion]

Isn't this the reason for 'bolt-through' MTB axles?

[PhilO]

There is (was?) an ongoing court case earlier this year where a MTBer paralysed in a crash in the Brecons was suing Specialised.  I think his argument was that Spesh were aware of the issue but neglected to do anything about it. 

Russ Pinder. He went over the bars near the bottom of 'The Gap' a few years ago and broke his neck. I was curious as to how he could prove that the wheel had ejected, but it was settled out of court in the end, so all we have is hearsay and rumour.

Isn't this the reason for 'bolt-through' MTB axles?

One reason. But the main one is to reduce flex at the interface between the fork and axle.

Most (?) QR forks now have forward-facing drop outs to safeguard against ejection of the wheel.

[andrew_s]

I'd have thought the only 'safe' answer is a re-design of the brake mount so the braking forces pull the disk/QR together rather than forcing apart, regardless of drop-out angle.  probably cost the manufacturers too much, though.

It's dead simple - all you have to do it put the disk tabs on the front of the RH fork blade instead of the rear of the LH blade. There are a couple of bikes that are like that.

The only manufacturing change needed would be to disc dynohubs - if they are fitted the wrong way round, the centre can unscrew and break the wiring. A LH thread on the screw-in centre would fix that.

[andrew_s]

for me it usually goes as follows

Flip QR.
Hold QR nut and rotate lever 6 full turns.
Try and fail to remove wheel
Swear about the lawyer lips
Turn QR another couple of turns (#)
Fail to get the wheel out again
Realise that yet again the lawyer lips weren't the problem - it was me forgetting to undo the brake release 
Fix puncture, reinsert wheel etc.
Hold QR nut and rotate lever 6 full turns (in other direction).
Flip QR.
Realise that it needed an extra one since I lost count at (#)
Flip QR back
Give it one more turn
Flip QR

 

Followed by stopping half a mile down the road when you remember that you didn't do up the brake release

[nuttycyclist]

That's if you don't have to adjust it, otherwise it becomes:-

Try closing it, too easy, tighten a couple of revolutions, try closing again, still a bit too loose, spin one more revolution, tiny bit too tight, loosen slightly on the nut side, close QR, done.

That can easily take 10 seconds or so, still better than rummaging around for a spanner or an allen key or even a pitlock key.

Count how many revolutions it took to loosen after undoing lever.

Do up for the same number of revolutions, close lever.  Simples

[Oaky]

for me it usually goes as follows

Flip QR.
Hold QR nut and rotate lever 6 full turns.
Try and fail to remove wheel
Swear about the lawyer lips
Turn QR another couple of turns (#)
Fail to get the wheel out again
Realise that yet again the lawyer lips weren't the problem - it was me forgetting to undo the brake release 
Fix puncture, reinsert wheel etc.
Hold QR nut and rotate lever 6 full turns (in other direction).
Flip QR.
Realise that it needed an extra one since I lost count at (#)
Flip QR back
Give it one more turn
Flip QR

 

Followed by stopping half a mile down the road when you remember that you didn't do up the brake release

Unfortunately, I also have to admit to that one (although I usually try and do that up on the move -- i _will_ fall off one of these times).

[tonycollinet]

Another advantage of disk brakes. 

Regarding QR, I more or less finger tighten till it stops with the lever sticking out horizontal - then flip the lever closed.