Author Topic: Who is Tom Marriage?  (Read 9734 times)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Who is Tom Marriage?
« on: 12 April, 2016, 10:10:16 am »
With his talk of anoraks, cheese sandwiches, Sheldon, spliffs on Ditchling Beacon, Brooks saddles for £40, ramshackle joy and being a self-confessed reactionary ranter, I'd be surprised if he isn't a grumpy old YACFer in disguise.
http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2016/apr/12/no-more-hippies-and-explorers-lament-for-the-changed-world-of-cycling
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #1 on: 12 April, 2016, 10:28:19 am »
Somebody who is far removed from reality if you ask me.

I don't particularly identify with this piece.   That London might be Tom's idea of metropolitan cycling heaven but out in the provinces we're not getting the investment nor infrastructure to match his cycling idyll.   Whereas the facilities for car use in Britain are both ubiquitous and standardised, cycling suffers from a hotchpotch of crappy and non-standard cycle farcilities and frankly dangerous road conditions in terms of road layout, user priorities, surface conditions and driver behaviour.   

More Guardian head in the clouds nulabour stylee sheer bollox if you ask me.   

</ rant over >

I'll get back to my work now...   

Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #2 on: 12 April, 2016, 10:32:54 am »
I don't know but, although a lot of what he says seems persuasive, I think he's just not looking in the right places - here for example.  There's all sorts of mad stuff going on.   Hard not to be regretful about somebody who rates cycling above having young children but I don't suppose he expected it to come across like that.  Also noted that he's "bored of" rather than "with".  This may be considered correct these days because of "current usage" but it isn't and it well never be, so there.  I think there's something in what he says about the would-be racers pissing off the general public but I think that may be as much the general public's problem.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #3 on: 12 April, 2016, 11:25:11 am »
PB, where does he say anything about infrastructure?
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Kim

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Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #4 on: 12 April, 2016, 11:32:54 am »
I don't know but, although a lot of what he says seems persuasive, I think he's just not looking in the right places - here for example.

Quite.  The spirit of silly bike adventuring is alive and well if you know where to look.  And thanks to the internet it's much easier to know where to look.  A hoard of MAMILs doesn't detract from that particularly.


Quote
I think there's something in what he says about the would-be racers pissing off the general public but I think that may be as much the general public's problem.

Indeed.

Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #5 on: 12 April, 2016, 11:33:20 am »
PB, where does he say anything about infrastructure?

Just below the Fast Forward video link.

Quote from: tom Marriage
The second is, probably, more permanent: a shift in the culture. Cycling in the UK has changed massively in the past few years. Mostly for the better. Cycling as a mode of transport has really taken off in London, if not in all other places. It’s amazing. The infrastructure is improving beyond recognition. It’s incredible to see that cycling has become a normal, unquestioned part of so many people’s lives.

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #6 on: 12 April, 2016, 11:35:14 am »
PB, where does he say anything about infrastructure?

Quote
Cycling as a mode of transport has really taken off in London, if not in all other places. It’s amazing. The infrastructure is improving beyond recognition. It’s incredible to see that cycling has become a normal, unquestioned part of so many people’s lives.

It is simpler than it looks.

Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #7 on: 12 April, 2016, 11:36:46 am »
The bloke is talking bollocks, and the comments below are actually worth reading (for once) - several mentions of audax!
The sound of one pannier flapping

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #8 on: 12 April, 2016, 11:54:47 am »
PB, where does he say anything about infrastructure?

Just below the Fast Forward video link.

Quote from: tom Marriage
The second is, probably, more permanent: a shift in the culture. Cycling in the UK has changed massively in the past few years. Mostly for the better. Cycling as a mode of transport has really taken off in London, if not in all other places. It’s amazing. The infrastructure is improving beyond recognition. It’s incredible to see that cycling has become a normal, unquestioned part of so many people’s lives.
Hardly his main point though. He was talking about the spirit of adventure and silliness – he actually uses the word silly, which is a word I've only ever seen connected with cycling (at least in an approving way) on here, in Silly Bike Adventures – and lamenting their passing.

It was probably partly that word silly that suggested yacfiness, plus the fact that everything he is talking about is here. Some of it originates here, like riding through a tunnel in Mordor just because we can, or meeting in a field behind a pub to eat cake, drink beer and scythe toes, or riding to some Neolithic site with a sacrifice of smutty chocolate; and some of it is talked about here, like Dunwich Dynamo or absurdly demanding audaxes. 

Those audaxes are at the intersection between three worlds though; the silly world (see above), the grumpy world of it were better in my day before these newfangled non-leather saddles, and the boy racer/mamil world. Each of which has, of course, always existed, in different proportions and under different names. Mamil? Roadie. etc.

Transcon is another excellent intersection of those three worlds (as far as I can judge from people's reports).
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #9 on: 12 April, 2016, 11:56:21 am »
I don't know but, although a lot of what he says seems persuasive, I think he's just not looking in the right places - here for example.  There's all sorts of mad stuff going on.   Hard not to be regretful about somebody who rates cycling above having young children but I don't suppose he expected it to come across like that.  Also noted that he's "bored of" rather than "with".  This may be considered correct these days because of "current usage" but it isn't and it well never be, so there.  I think there's something in what he says about the would-be racers pissing off the general public but I think that may be as much the general public's problem.
! :-\!
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #10 on: 12 April, 2016, 01:36:10 pm »
I would argue that there has not been a significant shift in the culture towards cycling in the UK.   I'd even suggest that the anti-cycling lobby has grown even more vociferous and ferocious by personal experience.   

Boris has pushed his bikes and superhighways in London but go almost anywhere else and Sustrans cannot get funding, cycle routes are farcical at best, dangerous at worst, and, bicycle parking facilities at retail outlets, public building and transport nodes are patchy, non-standardised and often difficult or even impossible to use.   Hell, no two train operators seem to share a policy and/or practice on bicycle transportation on trains!

That does not in my opinion represent a positive shift in the culture of cycling.   We on YACF eating cakes in fields, cycling through the night and sacrificing smutty chocolate confections on historic stone monuments are the representatives of the minority free spirit of our generations.   We dare to be different: we are not the mainstream such as in countries like Holland or Denmark where to ride a bicycle is as normal and accepted as is coffee and pastries.   

Somebody who travels by bicycle in this country is seen as somebody who is eccentric, somebody who hasn't quite made it, somebody who cannot afford a car.   The stigma attached to bicycle use by the likes of Clarkson and his ilk is not countered at all by Bojo with his own clownish aura of eccentricity.

Tom Marriage has completely missed the point. 

Jaded

  • The Codfather
  • Formerly known as Jaded
Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #11 on: 12 April, 2016, 02:13:45 pm »
Strava is the new golf handicap.
It is simpler than it looks.

Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #12 on: 12 April, 2016, 02:18:34 pm »
Strava is the new golf handicap.
:)

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #13 on: 12 April, 2016, 03:05:16 pm »
PB, your point is valid – I'm not entirely sure whether I agree, but it's still valid as a point – but not really relevant in this context. The point that Tom Marriage has missed – because yes, he has missed the point – is a different one entirely. Having silly adventures, getting a better strava handicap and getting more bums on saddles are all good things to do but are neither mutually dependent nor exclusive.
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #14 on: 12 April, 2016, 03:10:24 pm »
Quote
Isn’t there any part of life where I can experience a freedom from corporatism without have my experience re-packaged and sold back to me?

Anyway back to Lael Wilcox. It is beautiful to see someone cycling competitively, cycling seriously, but with the passion for adventure, for challenge, for experience which has been lost from so many other parts of the culture.

It’s hard not to feel jealous of her hardship, of her joy, of the challenge she’s facing. She inspires me to think about cycling in the old way again.

There’s something adventurous, and crazy, and silly about what she’s doing. I would hope that some of her spirit comes back into cycling, some of the madness, some of the diversity, and while I hope that the road cyclists stick around, I also hope they become less the dominant force in cycling, and more just one voice amongst many others.

I just love the idea that Lael Wilcox is an example of the pure non-commercial ethic of the past. She's wholly unsupported. Apart from the film crew, obviously, who seem to be pitching for a Trans Am film, which will consist of moody close-ups of introspection, some action footage, a bit of jeopardy and scenic drone shots. All of which is like shooting fish in a barrel. Whereas a film about the MAMIL phenomenon would be a lot more interesting.

Mr Larrington

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Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #15 on: 12 April, 2016, 03:43:03 pm »
I think it's becoming more difficult to have very silly bike adventures these days because so much of the world want to kill Westerners utterly to DETH for no very good reason.  Thank you, George and Tony.
External Transparent Wall Inspection Operative & Mayor of Mortagne-au-Perche
Satisfying the Bloodlust of the Masses in Peacetime

Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #16 on: 12 April, 2016, 04:13:08 pm »
I don't know but, although a lot of what he says seems persuasive, I think he's just not looking in the right places - here for example.  There's all sorts of mad stuff going on.   Hard not to be regretful about somebody who rates cycling above having young children but I don't suppose he expected it to come across like that.  Also noted that he's "bored of" rather than "with".  This may be considered correct these days because of "current usage" but it isn't and it well never be, so there.  I think there's something in what he says about the would-be racers pissing off the general public but I think that may be as much the general public's problem.
! :-\!

Name your place.  You may have choice of weapon!

Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #17 on: 12 April, 2016, 04:45:18 pm »
The point that Tom Marriage has missed – because yes, he has missed the point – is a different one entirely. Having silly adventures, getting a better strava handicap and getting more bums on saddles are all good things to do but are neither mutually dependent nor exclusive.

Indeed.  I assume he is piqued because either he is no longer able to regard himself as a cycle pioneer (because so many other bloody people are doing it) or because he is regularly being overtaken by the "Strava brigade" and doesn't like it - or both. 
The sound of one pannier flapping

Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #18 on: 12 April, 2016, 04:48:27 pm »
I think it's even more likely that he needed to get something written for a deadline and probably doesn't even believe most of it himself.  But it's got a discussion going!

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #19 on: 12 April, 2016, 05:01:37 pm »
I don't know but, although a lot of what he says seems persuasive, I think he's just not looking in the right places - here for example.  There's all sorts of mad stuff going on.   Hard not to be regretful about somebody who rates cycling above having young children but I don't suppose he expected it to come across like that.  Also noted that he's "bored of" rather than "with".  This may be considered correct these days because of "current usage" but it isn't and it well never be, so there.  I think there's something in what he says about the would-be racers pissing off the general public but I think that may be as much the general public's problem.
! :-\!

Name your place.  You may have choice of weapon!
I choose... the italic ellipsis...  :D

(Some changes in use of prepositions do annoy me, and I'd give some examples but none come to mind right now and anyway it's got nothing to do with changes in cycling – or has it – but in the case of "bored of/with" I find it hard to remember which came first.)
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #20 on: 12 April, 2016, 05:25:07 pm »
Anyone tired of pedantry is tired of life. Much as I am, when it descends to this level.

Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #21 on: 12 April, 2016, 05:33:52 pm »
ESL, don't despair, 'tis only fun!   This pedantry hasn't descended anywhere but climbs to the heights of the glorious English language, which is too precious to be entrusted to academics.

Cudzo, I would imagine bored with/by will have come first but I'm not certain.  As for your choosing the italic ellipsis, I think you are a little dotty.  You are, of course, correct in that it has nothing to do with cycling but I counter that it has to do with writing, which is what he was doing!  All good fun, I hope, and in the fine yacf tradition of going off at tangents at the earliest opportunity!

Peter

Cudzoziemiec

  • Ride adventurously and stop for a brew.
Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #22 on: 12 April, 2016, 05:41:48 pm »
You'll never get a Strava segment if you keep going off track!  :D
Riding a concrete path through the nebulous and chaotic future.

hellymedic

  • Just do it!
Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #23 on: 12 April, 2016, 05:55:55 pm »
Somebody who is far removed from reality if you ask me.

I don't particularly identify with this piece.   That London might be Tom's idea of metropolitan cycling heaven but out in the provinces we're not getting the investment nor infrastructure to match his cycling idyll.   Whereas the facilities for car use in Britain are both ubiquitous and standardised, cycling suffers from a hotchpotch of crappy and non-standard cycle farcilities and frankly dangerous road conditions in terms of road layout, user priorities, surface conditions and driver behaviour.   

More Guardian head in the clouds nulabour stylee sheer bollox if you ask me.   

</ rant over >

I'll get back to my work now...

Though I live on the suburban fringe of That London, I relate better to Cudz than to Tom's rambling.

I see from my Faceache feed that one of Onion Johnny's seed has pushed the column at him...

Re: Who is Tom Marriage?
« Reply #24 on: 12 April, 2016, 06:40:25 pm »
It's an easy rant with some elements of reality, but it doesn't really sum up 'the cycling experience'TM

I'm doing a sportive in a couple of weeks, with a friend because she said it was social - and the last 10 miles is downhill. I've promised to turn up on a bike with a rack and dynamo in order to keep up appearances (and it's the only one actually working at the moment)

On a cautionary note, we humans seem to call people who make different (more expensive) choices 'poseurs' at the drop of a hat. Of course the marketing men appeal to our desire to have the best or not to feel left behind (there is good evidence that, broadly, not having a pool doesn't make you unhappy unless you believe everyone else on your street does), but to tar everyone with the same brush is just a bit dim really.

Mike