e-scooter trial

[barakta]

I believe RNIB research suggests even geofencing helps in terms of scooter parking, especially if combined with fees for noncompliance to the users which are easily applied. But they have to BOTHER to enforce it.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Voi have clauses in their contracts to levy fines for badly parked scooters but in practice never do. I think they simply lack the staff to check (on the photo or geolocations). This seems to be one reason why the next contracts are apparently going to other firms, but we'll see.

[Kim]

Interesting...

It’s been a Voi-yage

We are sad to inform you that we will no longer be operating in Birmingham as of 11.00PM on Tuesday 28th February, 2023.

Our contract to run the e-scooter trial for West Midlands Combined Authority has expired and we will be removing our scooters and parking racks from Birmingham over the coming weeks.

Since September 2020 we have seen 141,000 riders take 2.4 million rides in the region, covering 3.14 million miles. We are proud of the service we have delivered and would like to say thank you to all riders who have hopped on and made the service a success. We’re sorry for any inconvenience this has caused.

If you are currently subscribed to a Voi Pass we will issue prorated refunds to all users who have unused minutes or days left on their subscriptions. Active Voi pass subscriptions will not be renewed.

We remain optimistic about the future of micromobility in the region and hope to be back to serve riders soon.

If you have any further questions regarding our operations or refunds, please contact support@voi.com.

Best wishes,
the Voi team

[Cudzoziemiec]

It's been a Voi-yage

I always assumed that was the origin of the name. Or at least, maybe some Swedish cognate of way (in the via sense, not the how sense).

Anyway, I'm guessing that you'll be getting a new brand to replace them for a further 'trial'.

[fruitcake]

I imagine there's more to it than the contract expiring. Alas, pavement scootering and badly parked scooters is EXACTLY the kind of thing people write to the Council about. Pavement driving and pavement parking not so much.

[Cudzoziemiec]

E-scooter trials considered from a market competition and fairness point of view, as well as considering environmental impact and some comparisons the approach around e-bikes and that taken to e-scooters in other countries.

https://thebristolcable.org/2023/02/regulating-e-scooters-help-consumers-industry/

[cycleman]

Slough is getting a new scheme. The council couldn't pay for the old one apparently. This is starting in June

[mrcharly-YHT]

What I don't understand is that, how, in some areas, you have a well-set up and controlled scheme (Cambridge), and others, absolute mayhem? Same company (Voi).

[barakta]

How strict the Council is about it probably.

Also, Cambridge has a hardy core of disability activists who would have sued the council by now.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Different councils set different rules, and enforce them with varying amounts of zeal. Even within West of England CA, which is one contract, the rules on use (particularly parking) of e-scooters vary between eg Bristol and South Glos.

[andrewc]

https://www.thelocal.fr/20230330/once-a-pioneer-in-e-scooters-paris-contemplates-banning-them


Paris voting on a ban for rental scooters.  I like the name "trottinettes".

[Adam]

Paris votes to ban them.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-65154854

[pumpkin]

Adieu!

[Cudzoziemiec]

It doesn't seem to have been an issue for most people.

But under 8% of those eligible turned out to vote.

And they now have the reverse situation compared to UK.

Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo called the referendum, where voters could say if they were for or against free-floating e-scooters. Privately-owned vehicles were not part of the vote.

Not clear from that if docked hire scooters will still be allowed, but it doesn't change the status of private ones.

[MikeFromLFE]

I wonder about various aspects of the Paris vote.
I've read somewhere that a largeish proportion of users are tourists - who don't - for whatever reasons - follow the local rules on their use, and, obviously, didn't have a vote.
Secondly, the the other main group of users of the trotinettes would be younger locals - who seem to have failed to turn out to vote. If younger people aren't voting, what does this say about (French) democracy?
Lastly, the three hire companies in Paris made huge efforts to get a positive vote, and massively failed, so I wonder what this says for the future of the hire model, as opposed to private ownership.

[Cudzoziemiec]

The turnout was about 9%, so it's not only young people who failed to vote.

But the commercial point is interesting. I wonder if there was an element of 'sticking it to the man'? Maybe with the man being one man, ie Macron (who probably isn't in any way involved, mais boff).

[Cudzoziemiec]

E-scooters to be banned from GWR trains due to safety concerns. You know it must be true because you read it in the Adver.
https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/traffic/23529077.gwr-bans-e-scooters-stations-due-safety-fears/

Great Western Railway is banning all passengers from carrying electric scooters on services or stations.

Customers will no longer be able to take e-scooters on to Great Western Railway trains or stations which the company operates from Sunday, May 21.

This will include Swindon railway station as well as others in Wiltshire such as Chippenham, Trowbridge and Westbury.

The company said it was concerned over the fire risk posed by lithium batteries.

In an update to its policy, it said: "This follows a number of incidents on the UK rail and tube network where lithium-ion batteries in e-scooters have been associated with severe overheating, increasing the risk of fire.

[Cudzoziemiec]

Apparently this notice has been put up at (some) stations:

From 21 May, 2023, customers will no longer be able to bring e-Scooters onto GWR trains or stations.

This follows a number of incidents on the UK rail and tube network where lithium-ion batteries in e-Scooters have been associated with severe overheating, increasing the risk of fire.

If unchecked, this carries particular risks in enclosed spaces on board trains.

Unlike other personal mobility devices such as e-bikes or mobility scooters, e-Scooters are not currently regulated, and are not required to meet minimum safety standards for vehicles.

Customers bringing e-Scooters onto GWR trains or stations will be asked to leave. Unattended e-Scooters will be treated as abandoned and will be safely disposed of.

The penultimate paragraph is the nub of the matter; no regulations, cos the DfT haven't officially accepted their existence.

[Kim]

Apparently this notice has been put up at (some) stations:

From 21 May, 2023, customers will no longer be able to bring e-Scooters onto GWR trains or stations.

This follows a number of incidents on the UK rail and tube network where lithium-ion batteries in e-Scooters have been associated with severe overheating, increasing the risk of fire.

If unchecked, this carries particular risks in enclosed spaces on board trains.

Unlike other personal mobility devices such as e-bikes or mobility scooters, e-Scooters are not currently regulated, and are not required to meet minimum safety standards for vehicles.

Customers bringing e-Scooters onto GWR trains or stations will be asked to leave. Unattended e-Scooters will be treated as abandoned and will be safely disposed of.

The penultimate paragraph is the nub of the matter; no regulations, cos the DfT haven't officially accepted their existence.

I'm not sure how much of that pertains to their fire safety on a train, thobut, which is shirley covered under usual sale of goods regulations that might pertain to a power drill or video camera or whatever.

I suppose there's the possibility of battery damage while in use as a vehicle that later causes a fire.  I can imagine this being more of an issue for a scooter than an ebike, as the wheels are small and the battery is so close to the ground.

But it feels like a plausible sounding excuse for the rail company to ban them, in a way that won't get them into trouble with the DFT or under the Equality Act.

[citoyen]

I'm not sure how much of that pertains to their fire safety on a train, thobut, which is shirley covered under usual sale of goods regulations that might pertain to a power drill or video camera or whatever.

I guess the difference is that people aren't carrying knock-off Chinese power drills or video cameras on trains. I kind of understand their reticence to allow large batteries of unknown provenance.

TfL bans all *privately owned* e-scooters on the Underground. I suppose it's harder to enforce a distinction on the wider rail network with fewer staffed gatelines, so a blanket ban is easier.

I suppose there's the possibility of battery damage while in use as a vehicle that later causes a fire.  I can imagine this being more of an issue for a scooter than an ebike, as the wheels are small and the battery is so close to the ground.

Don't tell anyone but I remove the battery from my e-bike when I park it at the station and carry it in my bag on the train. Probably far more likely to be knocked and damaged.

E-bikes are banned from the office too. They're allowed in the bike storage areas, just not in the desky areas - they use the same fire risk excuse but it's really to stop people charging their bikes at their desk.

Fortunately, no one is checking my bag on the way in.

If Southeastern bastards ever get round to activating the secure bike lockers they built at the station a year ago, I might feel happier about leaving the battery in situ.

[Jurek]

I'm not sure whether it has been mention already, if so I apologise for the repetition, but the issue isn't so much with fires on trains as it is with lithium-ion fires being notoriously difficult to extinguish as, I believe, they generate oxygen when they burn, so smothering them with conventional fire-fighting media isn't nearly as effective as one might want.
Magnesium and Sodium Chlorate are two other materials which spring to mind as being difficult to extinguish once lit.

[hubner]

If this ban gets rid of the idiots riding their escooters in train stations and platforms, it might be actual intended consequences.

Although it also prevents mixed mode travelling.

[JellyLegs]

I'm not sure whether it has been mention already, if so I apologise for the repetition, but the issue isn't so much with fires on trains as it is with lithium-ion fires being notoriously difficult to extinguish as, I believe, they generate oxygen when they burn, so smothering them with conventional fire-fighting media isn't nearly as effective as one might want.
Magnesium and Sodium Chlorate are two other materials which spring to mind as being difficult to extinguish once lit.

They do produce some oxygen but not big quantities.  The bigger issue is they overheat and enter “thermal runaway” relatively easily once one battery cell is damaged or fails and this not only produces more heat to accelerate the reaction but releases quantities of hydrogen gas which will burn in very low concentrations of oxygen.   Not a good combination, especially when your unknown battery manufacturer has limited quality control, few if any built in safety circuitry and limited design features to prevent mechanical damage / incorrect charging.  The other issues for the train companies is probably the speed with which these incidents escalate, leaving very little time to safely evacuate several carriages of a moving train should one ignite without warning between stations and the resulting disruption a relatively minor fire could cause to the network.

The bigger battery setups found in cars have been known to burn / pose a risk of reigniting for up to 5 days.

[Adam]

UCL have been carrying out an independent study of the data from users of Voi scooters.

It shows that if they hadn't used a scooter, 37% would have walked, 19% would have used a car, 14% would have gone by bus, 10% would have cycled, 2% by other public transport and 2% would have used a motorbike.

So, as predicted quite some time ago, there's a small modal shift away from a car, and a massive switch away from active travel, with public transport also losing customers.

https://www.voi.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/UCL-C_Emissions-Savings-Emissions-from-Shared-E-Scooters.pdf

The press releases going around bizarrely state that by switching to a scooter, not only are emissions reduced due to less car use, but also because walking & cycling has slightly higher emissions than a scooter!  Voi's own website doesn't state that though.

[Kim]

It's certainly more efficient to move a human from A to B using a lightweight battery vehicle like a scooter or ebike than it is to grow and manufacture food to provide the human with the required amount of energy to do it using muscle power.  But that's with the erroneous assumption that the human wasn't going to eat the food anyway...