Working out reach on drops

[velosam]

I am curious about this as I cant seem to figure it out.

How can you work out the reach on drop on a set of bars.

I use the elbow to end of stem trick to roughly work out the reach, but that just gets me where I maybe on the tops. However, with bars having all sorts of different reach, how do I know what is right or wrong, other than by feel?

Also as you lose weight and get fitter - doesn't this change?

[tiermat]

Answer to first question:

There are numerous theories abounding as to how to work this out, but in the end it all comes down to what feels right for you.*

Second question, yes it does, as core strength increases and gut reduces then the setup for a comfortable ride will change, go with what works for you.

*On an related note(sort of) I have seen a BL Factory manual for the mini.  This manual describes all the steps to build a mini.  One section contains the words (I paraphrase) "Fit the item carefully, adjusting to X, if the next item does not fit properly, adjust first to Y, if item still does not fit, adjust with a hammer."

[velosam]

Answer to first question:

 "Fit the item carefully, adjusting to X, if the next item does not fit properly, adjust first to Y, if item still does not fit, adjust with a hammer."

Lol - its too nice to hammer !!

[Biggsy]

I use the elbow to end of stem trick to roughly work out the reach, but that just gets me where I maybe on the tops. However, with bars having all sorts of different reach, how do I know what is right or wrong, other than by feel?

I don't know what the lengths of your forearm, finger and saddle nose have to do with the price of fish.  There's no substitute for trying different stem lengths (and heights).  Anyway, how about optimising reach for the position you use most?  Or have it optimised for speed for the hoods/drops so that the tops provide a rest for your back and shoulders.

[Biggsy]

From http://www.romeroperformance.com/retulbikefit/bike-fit-advice/:

For a road or mountain bike a rough starting point is to put your elbow against the front of the saddle. Your longest finger should be towards the middle of the stem.

As you say, Velosam, the rule doesn't even account for reach of the bars at all, which can vary a lot.  I know it's only supposed to be approximate, but you know what's approximately ok as soon as you get on the bike.  The fine tuning is the hard part.  Every 10 mm counts.

(Actually, every mm counts, but fixed stems tend to come in 10 mm increments, and you might not want the weight and flexibility of an adjustable, other than for testing).

[giropaul]

I've got a very easy solution - I set up a bike right with the bars I like, and then put exactly the same bars on every bike - simples 

(Deda Newton Shallow if you're asking)

[velosam]

I am rubbish at setting up so was hoping for an easier solution.  Also given the rubbish weather it takes me twice as long to set anything up.

[Chris N]

I measure reach and drop from the nose of the saddle on a bike I know fits (after setting the saddle in the right place above and behind the BB) and try to replicate that on the bike I'm setting up.  The Park Tool position record is quite useful too: http://www.parktool.com/uploads/files/blog/positionroad.pdf

[giropaul]

I measure reach and drop from the nose of the saddle on a bike I know fits (after setting the saddle in the right place above and behind the BB) and try to replicate that on the bike I'm setting up.  The Park Tool position record is quite useful too: http://www.parktool.com/uploads/files/blog/positionroad.pdf

This.

I have one bike as a "control" - I always measure from that one.

I set the saddle height up using a flat surface on top of the saddle and a simple measuring rod I've made. I then set up the saddle distance behind the bracket using a large spirit level, then the saddle angle/level using the same spirit level. Then I re-check that the height is still exact.

Then I measure the stem length needed to put the bars on the right place, fit stem and bars, and set the height in relation to the saddle again using a spirit level and measuring down to the bars. Different bracket heights will significantly affect the height of the bars from the ground. I then set the angle of the bars against my "control" bike.

You are right - the reach into the bottom of the "hooks" and to the brake levers differs with different bars. I tried some "newer" type bars recently (I liked the colour - being a bike tart), and the reach was different, even though the bar tops were in the same place - I replaced the bars with my old favourites the Newton shallows.

PS - in reality even pro riders spend very little time down on the drops - the most critical measure is probably saddle to brake levers, and the placing of the brake levers on the bars.

[Chris N]

PS - in reality even pro riders spend very little time down on the drops - the most critical measure is probably saddle to brake levers, and the placing of the brake levers on the bars.

Agreed.  That's the measurement that I use - saddle tip to just behind the top of the brake hoods.  Compact drops with the tops set flat and a flat transition into the brake levers.

[giropaul]

http://ruedatropical.com/2009/03/road-drop-bar-geometry/

Might be interesting

[Ningishzidda]

Mathematical jiggery pokery on several bodily dimensions.

[sojournermike]

Answer to first question:

There are numerous theories abounding as to how to work this out, but in the end it all comes down to what feels right for you.*

Second question, yes it does, as core strength increases and gut reduces then the setup for a comfortable ride will change, go with what works for you.

*On an related note(sort of) I have seen a BL Factory manual for the mini.  This manual describes all the steps to build a mini.  One section contains the words (I paraphrase) "Fit the item carefully, adjusting to X, if the next item does not fit properly, adjust first to Y, if item still does not fit, adjust with a hammer."

I have been around a number of car plants and confirm that a hammer is a precision instrument in the hands of a craftsman. Seriously!