[HAMR] A Record Too Dangerous to Break...

[hubner]

TG's idea of making use of prevailing winds is a really good one, but relies on either public transport or a support car taking him back to the start every time.

That's "cheating" isn't it?

If you're allowed to ride in any direction so you always (or mostly) ride with a tailwind, why not start every day at the top of a mountain? And then when you get to the bottom go back up in a car etc.

[mrcharly-YHT]

Tommy was paced by packs of riders for some of his riding.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

There is nothing, other than the Highway Code, stopping motorpacing. The record is for distance ridden in a year, not the direction ridden, route taken or number of companions.

[CrazyEnglishTriathlete]

I'm not sure how the prevailing wind theory will work.  206mpd (and there will need to be days when mileage is >250 in order to make up for days when the weather is too bad, etc, and the occasional day off will take between 12 hours (17.2mph) and 14 hours (14.7 mph) to do in the saddle plus a bit for food stops.  Given the paucity of overnight trains in the country - this would require someone to drive - 206 miles is 4 - 5 hours in a car/van (presumably at night).  TG is more likely to perish from a tired helper falling asleep at the wheel than he is from the event.

I think TG has a good view that food/eating and lack of company are likely to be tough things to overcome.

[clarion]

There is nothing, other than the Highway Code, stopping motorpacing. The record is for distance ridden in a year, not thevdirection ridden, route taken or number of companions.

If it's to be a Guinness record, then they may have lots of silly conditions.  Similarly, if the UCI get involved, you can guarantee daftness of a high degree in the rulemaking.

[LittleWheelsandBig]

The UCI won't touch this record, so irrelevant.

Guinness are a law unto themselves but haven't added much needless restriction previously. In any case, they've already said they won't recognise any new records in this category, so who cares what they think.

[clarion]

Fair enough, then.  It's a clear field.  But the Guinness name is always good for attracting sponsorship.

[mattc]

I'm not sure how the prevailing wind theory will work.  206mpd (and there will need to be days when mileage is >250 in order to make up for days when the weather is too bad, etc, and the occasional day off will take between 12 hours (17.2mph) and 14 hours (14.7 mph) to do in the saddle plus a bit for food stops.  Given the paucity of overnight trains in the country - this would require someone to drive - 206 miles is 4 - 5 hours in a car/van (presumably at night).  TG is more likely to perish from a tired helper falling asleep at the wheel than he is from the event.

You don't necessarily need overnight trains. Most routes run for around 18-20hours.

TG: "I think that one trick he did was to ride all day with a tailwind then catch a train back again as he slept, so that he could have a tailwind the next day."
My bold.

(I guess it would work best for those with a high-speed route running  a long way NE (or at least E) of home. I think TG is stuffed in this respect! )

[Feline]

TG does have a network of people who would be prepared to help him though. I could certainly fit him and his bike in my car and dump him at the location of his choosing a few times!

[teethgrinder]

The UCI won't touch this record, so irrelevant.

Guinness are a law unto themselves but haven't added much needless restriction previously. In any case, they've already said they won't recognise any new records in this category, so who cares what they think.

Exactly that. There is always the Road Records Association, who run the End to End records. Or just doing it anyway. With media coverage and public interest, it should be reasonably well documented.

Being rejected by Guiness could work in my favour by being a part of the story. Too extreme for Guinness! (which seems daft when I've heard about Sir Ranulph Feinnes and his antics. I only want to go for a little big bike ride)

TG's idea of making use of prevailing winds is a really good one, but relies on either public transport or a support car taking him back to the start every time.

That's "cheating" isn't it?

If you're allowed to ride in any direction so you always (or mostly) ride with a tailwind, why not start every day at the top of a mountain? And then when you get to the bottom go back up in a car etc.

It'd need to be a very big mountain and it'd take some time to be driven back to the top again. I haven't done the maths, but doubt it would be much benefit. Ideally I'd want a 250 mile decent which I could do all day then get a lift back up as I slept all night. I can't think of any mountains that big. I suppose it could work if there was a big enough mountain which isn't too tricky, probably somewhere like Columbia I would guess. I wouldn't want to do it that way anyway.

Is it cheating? I haven't read the rules.

As for a tailwind, I think I'd go somewhere like the USA or Australia and pick up several thousand miles of desert plains with a tailwind. Cycling through Australian deserts in extreme heat wouldn't be easy, even with a tailwind, I would expect. I'd probably need a trailer to carry my water too. A very long way between watering holes in Oz, so I've heard. Australia is not something to be taken lightly! I think I'd prefer the USA. Even then, the weather can get very bad in the desert with sandstorms and flash floods.

[Feline]

Yes, and there could be snakes!

[Kim]

Yes, and there could be snakes!

Even accounting for the generally homicidal nature of antipodean wildlife, I suspect that they'd have more to fear from a hungry teethgrinder than vice-versa...

Well, you can live on it, but it taste like shit.

 

[Citizenfish]

teethgrinder - seriously, get in touch if you want to give it a go. I would be delighted to help as your experience would add tons to my research. My book will not be out for ages as I am not only looking into the history but also the logistics and issues surrounding a modern attempt.

I have the Guinness criteria - to summarise, you have to do it on a velodrome or track with time keepers. Forget them if you want to ride on roads as they will not recognise it. There is more to this, but not on a public forum.

I also contacted RRA last year, they will not recognise it either as they have a strict set of guidelines including pre-advertising routes and witnesses that they do not feel could apply to this record.

You would have to do it for the kudos as I believe you would find it very difficult to get into the formal record books. But remember that the record was never sanctioned by Guinness or the RRA, it was Cycling Magazines challenge and they ratified it.

[Citizenfish]

Tommy was paced by packs of riders for some of his riding.

Not many (rides) as far as I can ascertain.

[Salvatore]

Yes, and there could be snakes!

From the wikipedia page describing (later Sir) Hubert Opperman's record-breaking  2,875 mile Fremantle to Sydney ride:

Opperman recalled: "At one point, by the light of the car behind me, I could see a large snake in the wheel ruts, and I couldn't stop. All I could do was land the bike on top of it, hard. I suppose I must have killed it. Then, at Nanwarra Sands, I had to pick up the bike and carry it for 10 miles in the soft sand. We learned that I could gain time by sleeping for only 10 minutes at a time, something I have never forgotten."

[rogerzilla]

teethgrinder - seriously, get in touch if you want to give it a go. I would be delighted to help as your experience would add tons to my research. My book will not be out for ages as I am not only looking into the history but also the logistics and issues surrounding a modern attempt.

I have the Guinness criteria - to summarise, you have to do it on a velodrome or track with time keepers. Forget them if you want to ride on roads as they will not recognise it. There is more to this, but not on a public forum.

I also contacted RRA last year, they will not recognise it either as they have a strict set of guidelines including pre-advertising routes and witnesses that they do not feel could apply to this record.

You would have to do it for the kudos as I believe you would find it very difficult to get into the formal record books. But remember that the record was never sanctioned by Guinness or the RRA, it was Cycling Magazines challenge and they ratified it.

I wonder which current cycling rag (apart from Arrivee!) would be interested?  C+ is sportives, dentists on Pinarellos and poseurs.  The Comic is mainly news and race results.  There are smaller-circulation leisure cycling magazines, but it doesn't feel like their thing either.

If there were some kind of charity tie-in, it would be good but you couldn't really get personal funding that way.

Do you ride Brooks?  Do they sponsor people?

[LittleWheelsandBig]

Brooks do sponsor people sometimes.

[Bianchi Boy]

In the discussions about ratification there is not a discussion on GPS. All the rides could be logged and all the miles counted. There could then be some verification on each ride by a witness, just to back up the tracklog. The details could then be logged almost every day and validated.

BB

[rogerzilla]

There is - see above.  The only problem might be that some Garmin GPS units switch themselves off at random intervals 

[Veloman]

There is - see above.  The only problem might be that some Garmin GPS units switch themselves off at random intervals 

No problem, just bin the Garmin as you don't need it anyway.

Already discussed sealed GPS tracker units as used by Vin Cox that would also allow us all to track the rider as well.  (See my previous post above)

[Mr Larrington]

As for a tailwind, I think I'd go somewhere like the USA or Australia and pick up several thousand miles of desert plains with a tailwind. Cycling through Australian deserts in extreme heat wouldn't be easy, even with a tailwind, I would expect. I'd probably need a trailer to carry my water too. A very long way between watering holes in Oz, so I've heard. Australia is not something to be taken lightly! I think I'd prefer the USA. Even then, the weather can get very bad in the desert with sandstorms and flash floods.

A chap I know from PBP 2007 and various fora rode unsupported around Oz in 49  days crazyguyonabike.com: Bicycle Touring: A Lap of Australia, by Pete Heal.

[rogerzilla]

What's the latest on this, TG?  Citizenfish was looking for you at the start of the Dun Run (presumably you were eatuing somewhere).

[teethgrinder]

I'd gone before he saw me, then he charged off after me. He must have passed me, possibly while I was at the petrol garage or pub, because he finished about 6 hours before I did.
We'll try and meet again. Trying to find a cyclist among about 1000 other cyclists wasn't the best plan. I don't think it helped that the usual YACF meeting place was out of service and we were scattered around.
I am thinking about it. In the beginning of building up a stock of bikes and clothes for a go. I've a few old frames I want to get back on the road again, but some of them need brazing, or possibly binning. I hope to see Dave Yates before the end of the year for at least one new frame. I'd probably use gears but I want to do some proper riding with gears next year. I haven't done much riding with gears in the last decade or so.

[rogerzilla]

I don't have a Sturmey-Archer AF lying around, or I'd build one up into a wheel for you, so you could be like Tommy Godwin    It's an inefficient hub in low gear, which makes Godwin's achievement more remarkable.

[Laid Back Rich]

I just stumbled onto this thread, any recent developments TG?